Only the Father sees what is done in secret

[Runningman]

On the matter of fasting, Jesus explicitly taught that fasting is reserved for the Father because the Father is the only one who can see what is being done in secret. This excludes the Son as being someone who can see what is done in secret and also excludes the Son as being the proper recipient of fasting. The Bible also doesn't support the Son being one who can see what is done in secret.

Thus, Jesus isn't God.

Only the Father is God, omniscient, omnipresent, and sees all. The eyes of the LORD are everywhere. (See also Matt 6:4, 6:6, 6:18)

Matthew 6
16When you fast, do not be somber like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward. 17But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18so that your fasting will not be obvious to men, but only to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Proverbs 15
3The eyes of the LORD are in every place,
observing the evil and the good.

 

[Fred]

the Father is the only one who can see what is being done in secret. This excludes the Son as being someone who can see what is done in secret


Matthew 6
16When you fast, do not be somber like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward. 17But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18so that your fasting will not be obvious to men, but only to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

The same Greek word for "secret" (kryptos) used in Matthew 6:18 is used in reference to what the Lord Jesus knows in 1 Corinthians 4:5. So your assertion is a total flop.
1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.

Paul also speaks of "the Lord" (in reference to Jesus) coming (erchomai) elsewhere within the same book.
1 Corinthians 11:26
For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

 

[Fred]

Only the Father is God, omniscient, omnipresent, and sees all. The eyes of the LORD are everywhere. (See also Matt 6:4, 6:6, 6:18)

Proverbs 15
3The eyes of the LORD are in every place,
observing the evil and the good.

In Peter 3:12, "the eyes of the Lord" are used in reference to Jesus.

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/jesus-was-never-prayed-to-once-in-the-bible.1479/page-13#post-61934

Thus, another assertion of yours is a total flop.

 

[Runningman]

The above posts by @Fred are misleading and false.

1 Peter 3:12 is a reference to Psalm 34:12-16 regarding YHWH who is the Father.

12Who is the man who delights in life,
who desires to see good days?
13Keep your tongue from evil
and your lips from deceitful speech.
14Turn away from evil and do good;
seek peace and pursue it.
15The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous,
and His ears are inclined to their cry.
16But the face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
to wipe out all memory of them from the earth.

Furthermore, the eyes of the Lord are everywhere. This is once again YHWH, the Father. There is nothing in the Bible about Jesus, the Son, etc seeing what is done in secret.

Proverbs 15
3The eyes of the LORD are in every place,
observing the evil and the good.

 

[Runningman]

The Father is the only recipient of prayer - Matt 6:6,9
The Father is the only recipient of worship - John 4:23,24
The Father is the only recipient of fasting - Matt 6:16-18
The Father is the only one who sees what is in secret - Matt 6:18
The Father is the only true God - John 17:3

Believe it.

 

[Fred]

The above posts by @Fred are misleading and false.

1 Peter 3:12 is a reference to Psalm 34:12-16 regarding YHWH who is the Father.

None of the evidence I supplied was refuted.

Try again.

 

[Fred]

excludes the Son as being the proper recipient of fasting.

The above is nonsense.


Acts 13:2-3
(2) While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”
(3) Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.

Acts 14:23
When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

 

[Fred]

The Father is the only recipient of prayer - Matt 6:6,9
The Father is the only recipient of worship - John 4:23,24
The Father is the only recipient of fasting - Matt 6:16-18
The Father is the only one who sees what is in secret - Matt 6:18
The Father is the only true God - John 17:3

Believe it.

Youn dodged 1 Corinthians 4:5.

Thanks for making this easy for me.

 

[Fred]

The Father is the only recipient of worship - John 4:23,24

Your assertion above is another total flop.

The same Greek word for "worship" (proskyneō) is properly used in reference to the Lord Jesus later on within this same book.

John 9:38
And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.


False teaching has a mighty grip on you.

 

[Runningman]

None of the evidence I supplied was refuted.

Try again.

The above is nonsense.


Acts 13:2-3
(2) While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”
(3) Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.

Acts 14:23
When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Youn dodged 1 Corinthians 4:5.

Thanks for making this easy for me.

Your assertion above is another total flop.

The same Greek word for "worship" (proskyneō) is properly used in reference to the Lord Jesus later on within this same book.

John 9:38
And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.


False teaching has a mighty grip on you.

Let's begin with your error of saying 1 Peter 3:12 is about Jesus. It plainly is not. The person in that passage is the Father, also known as YHWH. Jesus is not YHWH. See Psalm 110:1 where the LORD YHWH is not the Lord Jesus.

YHWH is not Jesus:

Psalm 110​

1The LORD[YHWH] said to my Lord:[Jesus]​

“Sit at My right hand​

until I make Your enemies​

a footstool for Your feet.”​

The Father is YHWH:

Isaiah 63​

16Yet You are our Father,​

though Abraham does not know us​

and Israel does not acknowledge us.​

You, O LORD[YHWH], are our Father;​

our Redeemer from Everlasting is Your name.​

​

Your posts have been dealt with and soundly refuted.

 

[Runningman]

This is not going away:

Only the Father sees what it done in secret. This means the Son of God is not God.

Matthew 6​

16When you fast, do not be somber like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward. 17But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18so that your fasting will not be obvious to men, but only to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.​

 

[Fred]

Let's begin with your error of saying 1 Peter 3:12 is about Jesus.

I thought you would begin by actually dealing with the evidence I supplied.

You didn't.

This is because it refutes your heresy.

Try again, but this time without dodging.

 

[Fred]

This is not going away:

Neither is 1 Corinthians 4:5.

Another dodge on your part.

 

[Fred]

Psalm 110​

1The LORD[YHWH] said to my Lord:[Jesus]​

“Sit at My right hand​

until I make Your enemies​

a footstool for Your feet.”​

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/jesus-is-the-lord-yhwh-in-1-corinthians-10-26-psalm-24-1-and-deuteronomy-6-4.603/#post-24596

 

[Runningman]

I thought you would begin by actually dealing with the evidence I supplied.

You didn't.

This is because it refutes your heresy.

Try again, but this time without dodging.

Neither is 1 Corinthians 4:5.

Another dodge on your part.

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/jesus-is-the-lord-yhwh-in-1-corinthians-10-26-psalm-24-1-and-deuteronomy-6-4.603/#post-24596

Your attempts to derail all of my threads will always result in my going back to the topic.

So there is nothing in scripture about Jesus seeing what is done in secret? No? Then you don't have a point. Next.

 

[Fred]

Your attempts to derail all of my threads

False claim. Just a total ruse on your part because your false teaching has been so easily refuted.

If you think I am then report it.

 

[Runningman]

False claim. Just a total ruse on your part because your false teaching has been so easily refuted.

If you think I am then report it.

On page 1 you have already stopped talking about the Bible.

Answer this now:

So there is nothing in scripture about Jesus seeing what is done in secret?

 

[Fred]

On page 1 you have already stopped talking about the Bible.

My very first post quoted 1 Corinthians 4:5.

Let me clue you in on something. 1 Corinthians 4:5 is in the Bible.

Answer this now:

So there is nothing in scripture about Jesus seeing what is done in secret?

See my comment above.

 

[Runningman]

My very first post quoted 1 Corinthians 4:5.

Let me clue you in on something. 1 Corinthians 4:5 is in the Bible.



See my comment above.

Witnessing what someone does in secret, like the Father does, is not the same thing as searching someone's heart on their judgement day. You don't have a point.

So you don't have any information about the Son seeing what is done in secret? Then you don't have a point.

And this is still here... the way to deal with this isn't to make things up and pit scripture against it. It's to believe it. Why haven't you tried that yet?

Believe this. I know you can.

Matthew 6​

16When you fast, do not be somber like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward. 17But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18so that your fasting will not be obvious to men, but only to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.​

 

[Fred]

Witnessing what someone does in secret, like the Father does, is not the same thing as searching someone's heart on their judgement day. You don't have a point.

Your OP has the Son being excluded from seeing what is done in secret.
This is refuted in 1 Corinthians 4:5.

Page 1 of this thread is finished.
Your position is an utter failure.