ON THE LAW OF GOD PART 1

[jeremiah1five]

A righteous man's free choice to choose what he prefers (Josh 24:15).

And man chooses according to his nature.
Adam sinned therefore he was a sinner.

 

[Eleanor]

And man chooses according to his nature.
Adam sinned therefore he was a sinner.

Not when his nature has no pre-disposition, but is open to all.
He had two good choices before him, love of Eve and love of God.
Those two good choices were in conflict.
He loved the creature more than the Creator, and with full knowledge and full consent disobeyed God's law (Ge 2:17).

You are in disagreement with Scripture.

He was created with a righteous character in the image of God; i.e., in righteousness, holiness and knowledge of God (Eph 4:24, Col 3:10),
and was not a sinner until he sinned.

 

[civic]

And man chooses according to his nature.
Adam sinned therefore he was a sinner.

Not originally as there was no corrupt nature prior to sin .

 

[David1701]

So Adam was uncorrupt but corruptible? Which is it? If he was corruptible, he was sinful as Scripture shows he sinned. Christ is incorruptible and He didn't sin. So, to take your reasoning with regard to Christ was incorruptible He did no sin, Adam was uncorruptible but corruptible that makes no sense. A leopard cannot change its spots neither can a sinful creation become incorruptible but corruptible.

Do you honestly not understand the difference between not corrupt and incorruptible?

Adam was created without corruption, but able to become corrupted. This is like an honest politician, who later gives in to bribery or intimidation.

The original creation was not sinful at all. There was no death, no disease, no predation: then, Adam sinned and the whole of creation fell into corruption.

Insects were created and God called them "good." this means they were uncorruptible but corruptible?

You seem to be misunderstanding several things.

1) Insects are not morally responsible creatures.
2) I did not claim that creation, as originally created, was incorruptible. I said that it was not corrupt.
3) A morally responsible creature (e.g. Adam and Eve), if called "very good" must not, as originally created, have any moral corruption, otherwise "very good" would not be an appropriate description.

One is either holy or unholy, righteous or unrighteous.
How can a holy Adam corrupt himself before his sin?

I'm not sure that I would call Adam, as originally created, "holy". It's more that he was innocent and undefiled.

Adam clearly desired to eat the forbidden fruit, before he ate, if only a moment before. This was a corrupt desire, although it was not explicitly forbidden, since only the act of eating the fruit was forbidden.

Jesus, being God and man, is incorruptible, not merely without corruption. His immutability means that temptation cannot lure him to something contrary to his thrice holy nature. Adam did not have this immutability.

 

[civic]

Not when his nature has no pre-disposition, but is open to all.
He had two good choices before him, love of Eve and love of God.
Those two good choices were in conflict.
He loved the creature more than the Creator, and with full knowledge and full consent disobeyed God's law (Ge 2:17).

You are in disagreement with Scripture.

He was created with a righteous character in the image of God; i.e., in righteousness, holiness and knowledge of God (Eph 4:24, Col 3:10),
and was not a sinner until he sinned.

And everything God create was declared good. So sin , corruption, decay and death are not good. Someone does not believe the Genesis account of creation and Gods declaration that everything was created good.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Not when his nature has no pre-disposition, but is open to all.
He had two good choices before him, love of Eve and love of God.
Those two good choices were in conflict.
He loved the creature more than the Creator, and with full knowledge and full consent disobeyed God's law (Ge 2:17).

You are in disagreement with Scripture.

He was created with a righteous character in the image of God; i.e., in righteousness, holiness and knowledge of God (Eph 4:24, Col 3:10),
and was not a sinner until he sinned.

So Adam was not holy and righteous as you said earlier. He was neutral?
And now he was conflicted?
I’d prefer if you just said I don’t know rather than guess.

 

[Eleanor]

So Adam was not holy and righteous as you said earlier. He was neutral?
And now he was conflicted?
I’d prefer if you just said I don’t know rather than guess.

Yes, he was not corrupt, but he was corruptible.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Do you honestly not understand the difference between not corrupt and incorruptible?

Adam was created without corruption, but able to become corrupted. This is like an honest politician, who later gives in to bribery or intimidation.

Make up your mind. Was Adam corrupt [sinner] or incorruptible [sinless]? Can't be both.

The original creation was not sinful at all. There was no death, no disease, no predation: then, Adam sinned and the whole of creation fell into corruption.

OK. Did his sin come from corruption [sinfulness] or incorruption [sinlessness]?

You seem to be misunderstanding several things.

1) Insects are not morally responsible creatures.
2) I did not claim that creation, as originally created, was incorruptible. I said that it was not corrupt.

Playing word games. It's a bilateral world. Holy/unholy, righteous/unrighteous, up/down, left/right, in/out, etc.

3) A morally responsible creature (e.g. Adam and Eve), if called "very good" must not, as originally created, have any moral corruption, otherwise "very good" would not be an appropriate description.

The word "good" in the creation narrative means "good enough" or "to specification." The Hebrew word is also translated as:

English Words used in KJV:
well 10
good 9
please 6
goodly 2
better 2
cheer 1
comely 1
do 1

It means: "a primitive root, to be (transitive do or make) good (or well) in the widest sense."

I'm not sure that I would call Adam, as originally created, "holy". It's more that he was innocent and undefiled.

God calls such a one holy if undefiled. But He didn't call Adam holy. God created dirt and from dirt he created man. How can a natural substance be holy? It was created by God out of nothing and from this creation of something He created man. It is earthy, from below, not from above.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 1 Cor. 15:45–49.

But we don't bear the image of the heavenly until our bodies are changed. Our bodies are the only part of us not saved in the present. When Adam sinned there was no change in his composition. He was created a sinner and that is why he sinned. He was not neutral, he was not holy, he was not righteous. He sinned. Sin comes from sinner.
It matters what a person is before a holy God: holy or unholy. There are no grey areas where God is concerned.

Adam clearly desired to eat the forbidden fruit, before he ate, if only a moment before. This was a corrupt desire, although it was not explicitly forbidden, since only the act of eating the fruit was forbidden.

Scripture doesn't say Adam "desired" to eat the fruit. It says his wife gave it to him and he ate of it. No desire. None at all. You're reading into Scripture what is not there.

Jesus, being God and man, is incorruptible, not merely without corruption. His immutability means that temptation cannot lure him to something contrary to his thrice holy nature. Adam did not have this immutability.

Adam sinned. Sin comes from sinner. No matter the word games God knows what He created. Man was created fallen short of the glory of God because there is ON:LY ONE God, there is NONE like Him (not even Adam) and He gives His glory to NO ONE.

 

[Eleanor]

Make up your mind. Was Adam corrupt [sinner] or incorruptible [sinless]? Can't be both.

Neither. . .he was created corruptible.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Neither. . .he was created corruptible.

How can that be when Scripture contradicts your belief:

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown [planted] in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown [planted] in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown [planted] in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown [planted]a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body
1 Cor. 15:42–44.
Here is the distinction between Adam who was created [sown] in corruption and dishonor, and weakness.
He was created fallen short of the glory of God. The word for that is "SIN."

You have the same corrupt, dishonorable, and weak body as Adam.
You sin. Sin comes from sinner.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Yes, he was not corrupt, but he was corruptible.

Well, his corruptibility comes from being a sinner.
He chose according to his earthy, weak, dishonorable human nature. Adam was created from below, not above.

 

[civic]

Make up your mind. Was Adam corrupt [sinner] or incorruptible [sinless]? Can't be both.

OK. Did his sin come from corruption [sinfulness] or incorruption [sinlessness]?


Playing word games. It's a bilateral world. Holy/unholy, righteous/unrighteous, up/down, left/right, in/out, etc.

The word "good" in the creation narrative means "good enough" or "to specification." The Hebrew word is also translated as:

English Words used in KJV:
well 10
good 9
please 6
goodly 2
better 2
cheer 1
comely 1
do 1

It means: "a primitive root, to be (transitive do or make) good (or well) in the widest sense."

God calls such a one holy if undefiled. But He didn't call Adam holy. God created dirt and from dirt he created man. How can a natural substance be holy? It was created by God out of nothing and from this creation of something He created man. It is earthy, from below, not from above.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 1 Cor. 15:45–49.

But we don't bear the image of the heavenly until our bodies are changed. Our bodies are the only part of us not saved in the present. When Adam sinned there was no change in his composition. He was created a sinner and that is why he sinned. He was not neutral, he was not holy, he was not righteous. He sinned. Sin comes from sinner.
It matters what a person is before a holy God: holy or unholy. There are no grey areas where God is concerned.

Scripture doesn't say Adam "desired" to eat the fruit. It says his wife gave it to him and he ate of it. No desire. None at all. You're reading into Scripture what is not there.

Adam sinned. Sin comes from sinner. No matter the word games God knows what He created. Man was created fallen short of the glory of God because there is ON:LY ONE God, there is NONE like Him (not even Adam) and He gives His glory to NO ONE.

That is false . God did not create Adam corruptible with a fallen nature . Corruption did not exist until sin entered the world. No sin , no death .

 

[jeremiah1five]

Not originally as there was no corrupt nature prior to sin .

So, if he was not corrupt where did sin come from? His incorruptibility?

The Word of God says unequivocally that wickedness proceeds from the wicked (1 Sam. 24:13).
That's the same as saying sin comes from sinner.
Adam sinned. Sin comes from sinner. That's the ONLY WAY God can create him for there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE.
So, with this truth under your belt what was Adam but fallen short of the glory of God since Adam possessed NO Deific attributes or nature of God?
The ONLY PERSON that can stand before a Holy God is a Holy Son and Holy Spirit.
Everyone else is fallen short of the glory of God.
We sin because we are sinners like Adam.
We are not sinners because we sin.

 

[civic]

So, if he was not corrupt where did sin come from? His incorruptibility?

The Word of God says unequivocally that wickedness proceeds from the wicked (1 Sam. 24:13).
That's the same as saying sin comes from sinner.
Adam sinned. Sin comes from sinner. That's the ONLY WAY God can create him for there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE.
So, with this truth under your belt what was Adam but fallen short of the glory of God since Adam possessed NO Deific attributes or nature of God?
The ONLY PERSON that can stand before a Holy God is a Holy Son and Holy Spirit.
Everyone else is fallen short of the glory of God.
We sin because we are sinners like Adam.
We are not sinners because we sin.

Disobedience is where . Sin did not exist until disobedience came into the picture with both the angels and man it’s a result or consequence of disobeying God. You are making up a false teaching on sin. Scripture is clear regarding sins origin. You are making an unbiblical philosophical argument . At best it would be an argument from silence . But scripture just so happens so speak on this issue .

 

[civic]

Plus you have evil existing prefall and God creating evil . Wow to those who call evil good. Everything God created was good, not evil and corrupt .

 

[Eleanor]

How can that be when Scripture contradicts your belief:

Scritpure doesn't contradict my belief. Your misunderstanding of Scritpure is in contradiction to my belief.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown [planted] in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown [planted] in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown [planted] in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown [planted]a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body

Have we jumped from the nature of Adam at creation to the ruined nature of Adam after his rebellion and spiritual fall?

 

[civic]

Scritpure doesn't contradict my belief. Your misunderstanding of Scritpure is in contradiction to my belief.

Have we jumped from the nature of Adam at creation to the ruined nature of Adam after his rebellion and spiritual fall?

It’s called equivocating

 

[David1701]

Make up your mind. Was Adam corrupt [sinner] or incorruptible [sinless]? Can't be both.

OK. Did his sin come from corruption [sinfulness] or incorruption [sinlessness]?


Playing word games. It's a bilateral world. Holy/unholy, righteous/unrighteous, up/down, left/right, in/out, etc.

The word "good" in the creation narrative means "good enough" or "to specification." The Hebrew word is also translated as:

English Words used in KJV:
well 10
good 9
please 6
goodly 2
better 2
cheer 1
comely 1
do 1

It means: "a primitive root, to be (transitive do or make) good (or well) in the widest sense."

God calls such a one holy if undefiled. But He didn't call Adam holy. God created dirt and from dirt he created man. How can a natural substance be holy? It was created by God out of nothing and from this creation of something He created man. It is earthy, from below, not from above.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 1 Cor. 15:45–49.

But we don't bear the image of the heavenly until our bodies are changed. Our bodies are the only part of us not saved in the present. When Adam sinned there was no change in his composition. He was created a sinner and that is why he sinned. He was not neutral, he was not holy, he was not righteous. He sinned. Sin comes from sinner.
It matters what a person is before a holy God: holy or unholy. There are no grey areas where God is concerned.

Scripture doesn't say Adam "desired" to eat the fruit. It says his wife gave it to him and he ate of it. No desire. None at all. You're reading into Scripture what is not there.

Adam sinned. Sin comes from sinner. No matter the word games God knows what He created. Man was created fallen short of the glory of God because there is ON:LY ONE God, there is NONE like Him (not even Adam) and He gives His glory to NO ONE.

Oh boy! There's so much wrong here that I don't think there's much point in trying to engage in further discussion.

 

[civic]

Oh boy! There's so much wrong here that I don't think there's much point in trying to engage in further discussion.

I concur

 

[jeremiah1five]

Disobedience is where . Sin did not exist until disobedience came into the picture with both the angels and man it’s a result or consequence of disobeying God. You are making up a false teaching on sin. Scripture is clear regarding sins origin. You are making an unbiblical philosophical argument . At best it would be an argument from silence . But scripture just so happens so speak on this issue .

You refuse to understand that sin comes from sinner.
God created Adam sinful, that is, "missing the mark" [of the glory of God.
Adam wasn't neutral.
Adam wasn't incorrupt but corruptible.
Adam wasn't holy.
Adam wasn't righteous.
Adam was created fallen short of the glory of God.
The word is "sin-ful."
Adam sinned because he was a sinner.
Adame was a sinner like the rest of us who are His elect saved by the grace of God.

And yes, Scripture is not silent and DOES speak to this issue:

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Sam. 24:12–13.