ON THE LAW OF GOD PART 1

[Eleanor]

5 I am the LORD, and there is none else,
There is no God beside me:
I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
That there is none beside me.
I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:5–7.

The Holy Spirit Authored the Scripture.
These are His very words.
Because of your unbelief in the Word of God you call the Holy Spirit a "blasphemer" for declaring God Almighty created evil. The Holy Spirit says He did.

I think you are a traducer.

I think you fail to appreciate the way a word was used about 2,700 years ago.

And I think you fail to appreciate how defiling sin is to God, and that he could never be its Author.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I think you fail to appreciate the way a word was used about 2,700 years ago.

And I think you fail to appreciate how defiling sin is to God, and that he could never be its Author.

Scripture is plain.

7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:5–7.

But you believe God lied.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Out of Scripture !!!!!!!!

or it can refer to harmful natural events, calamity, misfortune, adversity, affliction, or disaster. It is in this second sense that Isaiah speaks, and his meaning is reflected in most modern Bible translations of Isaiah 45:7 (emphasis added): “I make success and create disaster” (HCSB); “I make well-being and create calamity” (ESV); “I send good times and bad times” (NLT).

hope this helps !!!

Bingo

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Paul argues that subject:

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. Rom. 7:7–10.

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Gen. 2:17.

I come to the knowledge of the truth through studying Scripture under the anointing as per my call and gifts in the Body.
I am necessary. I am what I am.

Paul doesn't say he had to sin but that merely when the commandment came, sin revived, and he died. The command of THOU SHALT NOT in the Garden to Adam shows he was a sinner before he sinned as it is proven personally with Paul in his words.

Incorrect. Adam was created without sin. Paul was born into sin.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Everything God created degenerates. It's called the Law of entropy. Everything degenerates into chaos.
From the moment God created the earth and the stars and everything in the universe it began its eventual decay for ONLY GOD IS ETERNAL.
God's "good" creation as the word is defined was created "good enough" and "to specification" according to God's purpose.

Incorrect. We do not know how things would have played out without the fall. We are stuck with a broken creation and broken us to theorize about it all. So in order to have a measurement we have the Scriptures.

Entropy exists because of the fall. We cannot say whether it existed prior to the fall. It, in itself, is not an evil but it cannot be natural because of the fall. Perhaps a "good" version of entropy existed prior. We'll have to wait and see once all things are remade.

 

[Eleanor]

Scripture is plain.

7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:5–7.

But you believe God lied.

Previously addressed. See post #143.

Jas 1:13, 17, 1 Jn 1:5

 

[jeremiah1five]

Incorrect. Adam was created without sin. Paul was born into sin.

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Sa 24:13.

Sin comes from sinner.

The existence of "Thou Shalt Not" in the Garden is proof. The Law/Command shows us we are sinners and Paul speaks of both Law and Command in Romans 7.
Sin comes from sinner.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Incorrect. We do not know how things would have played out without the fall. We are stuck with a broken creation and broken us to theorize about it all. So in order to have a measurement we have the Scriptures.

Entropy exists because of the fall. We cannot say whether it existed prior to the fall. It, in itself, is not an evil but it cannot be natural because of the fall. Perhaps a "good" version of entropy existed prior. We'll have to wait and see once all things are remade.

Adam is not eternal. He had an appointed time of death without his sin. He would have died in time had he not disobeyed God. God said, "in the day thou eatest of it" well, in that day he died. If we are only speaking about spiritual death then Adam died physically later on. God said nothing about physical death later on only that "in the day thou eatest of it" thou shalt SURELY die. Not die. But SURELY die. That tells me death was already Adam's friend. But it was the disobedience by which he would SURELY die for disobedience. In the day. That day. When he ate from the tree.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Adam is not eternal. He had an appointed time of death without his sin.

Conjecture. Neither you nor I know that.

He would have died in time had he not disobeyed God.

More conjecture. You have no way of knowing that and neither do I. It did not happen and because of the fall could not be confirmed. The tree of life, at the very least, would have extended his life indefinitely had he not sinned. But that is an assumption in itself. Since the Fall was planned by God it's all moot.

God said, "in the day thou eatest of it" well, in that day he died. If we are only speaking about spiritual death then Adam died physically later on. God said nothing about physical death later on only that "in the day thou eatest of it" thou shalt SURELY die. Not die. But SURELY die. That tells me death was already Adam's friend. But it was the disobedience by which he would SURELY die for disobedience. In the day. That day. When he ate from the tree.

Adam and Eve should have died that day. But God's plan required they live on in their sin so a sacrifice was made ( the skins God covered them with were the first "deaths" recorded. ). The common interpretation was that they died a spiritual death but I'm not sure if that really squares with the narrative. A substitution was made for their sin. They taught their children of this ( righteous Able ). At this point the curse was in full effect so "sinning" was a given and therefore death as well. After the curse. Blocking Adam and Eve off from the Garden and the tree of life was a mercy.

That it took them ~900 years to die even under the curse is pretty amazing.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Conjecture. Neither you nor I know that.

Of course we do. Adam was not created eternal. Eternalness is God. It is his Nature. It is His glory. And He gives His glory to no one. If Adam was eternal at creation he would by necessity MUST possess ALL Deific Attributes of God or he would fall short of the glory of God. Knowing this alone proves that Adam was created fallen short of the glory of God. The Greek word is "harmatia" and it means "missing the mark" [of the glory of God.] This word is translated "sin" or "sinful," in the KJV, exactly my position that Adam was created sinful. And this is why he sinned. There is also the fact that he and the woman were barred from the Tree of Life by which their eating it they would live forever. And I know the textbook answer forthcoming...they were barred so that they would not live forever in their sinful condition. But I digress. Adam was not created eternal for again by necessity he MUST possess ALL Deific Attributes of God or he would fall short of the glory of God. There is ONLY ONE PERSON who can stand before a Holy and Righteous God and that Person is the Holy Son.

More conjecture. You have no way of knowing that and neither do I. It did not happen and because of the fall could not be confirmed. The tree of life, at the very least, would have extended his life indefinitely had he not sinned. But that is an assumption in itself. Since the Fall was planned by God it's all moot.

As above.

Adam and Eve should have died that day. But God's plan required they live on in their sin so a sacrifice was made ( the skins God covered them with were the first "deaths" recorded. ). The common interpretation was that they died a spiritual death but I'm not sure if that really squares with the narrative. A substitution was made for their sin. They taught their children of this ( righteous Able ). At this point the curse was in full effect so "sinning" was a given and therefore death as well. After the curse. Blocking Adam and Eve off from the Garden and the tree of life was a mercy.
That it took them ~900 years to die even under the curse is pretty amazing.

Adam and the woman DID die "in the day [they ate of the Tree as God promised. I believe they were created trichotomous: body, soul, and human spirit. This is the image of God. He didn't die soul-fully for the soul is comprised of the intellect, the conscience, the emotions, the senses, the mind, and the will and he was able to communicate and use all these faculties. They didn't die physically for they lived a total of 930 years and had many offspring in that time. Many offspring. What's left is their human spirit. This is what died "in the day" they ate the forbidden fruit. From that day forward ALL males and females are born dichotomous: body and soul. no human spirit.

Now let's take a look at what Jesus said:

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mt 10:28.

Jesus is saying a two-fold person [body and soul] are cast into "hell." I believe that there are no three-fold persons [saved] in "hell."

When a person is born again God creates a new human spirit for that person and they are restored to a trichotomy: body, soul, human spirit. The image of God. One of the functions of a human spirit is that it allows us to process spiritual phenomenon and the source of it. Much as the gift of discerning of spirits does.

Paul's words confirm this:

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Th 5:23.

Paul again says:

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph 4:24.

and

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor. 5:17.

So, in reality Adam and the woman died "in the day" they ate of the Tree. That very day. For without a human spirit God's way of communicating with the man changed after they sinned.
They were not created eternal. They were created sinful. That's the only way God can create them "in the beginning."
They sinned because they were created sinners. They are not sinners because they sinned.

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Sam 24:13.

I wonder how ancient this proverb is. Maybe all the way to the Garden of Eden and Adam and the woman?

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Of course we do.

You've brought up some good points. I don't believe we agree and I still see conjecture in your reasoning but I can't say you are entirely wrong either. So I won't and concede at this point with reservations for study. Thanks for sticking in there with me.

An interesting article I ran across while fighting my dislike of "wall of text" that might be helpful to others:

Antipas Papers/Chapter I - By S.R. Shearer

www.antipasministries.com

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

You've brought up some good points. I don't believe we agree and I still see conjecture in your reasoning but I can't say you are entirely wrong either. So I won't and concede at this point with reservations for study. Thanks for sticking in there with me.

An interesting article I ran across while fighting my dislike of "wall of text" that might be helpful to others:

Antipas Papers/Chapter I - By S.R. Shearer

www.antipasministries.com

Reading through the entire paper above I did come across an obvious error in the "note" section. The author assumes the RCC, most Protestants, and the Reformation in particular are Post-Mil. This is not the case.

all of which, interestingly enough, hold to a post-millennial approach to eschatology [i.e., that the church must take control of the world before Christ can return (more about this later)].

 

[jeremiah1five]

Reading through the entire paper above I did come across an obvious error in the "note" section. The author assumes the RCC, most Protestants, and the Reformation in particular are Post-Mil. This is not the case.

Thanks for the link.
I read it.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Let me bump this sucker.
LOL
Ready, Fire, Aim!