ON THE LAW OF GOD PART 1

[Eleanor]

Was the Samaritan in Covenant with God?
Were the priest and Levite in Covenant with God?

The priests and Levites (priests) did not exist until the Mosaic covenant.
And Samaritans were not in the Mosaic covenant with God.

 

[Eleanor]

No.
The Covenant went through Isaac not Ishmael.

But if I live i Minnesota, am I not still to regard the Muslim down the street as my neighbor if he needs what he is unable to provide for himself?

 

[Eleanor]

Was the Samaritan in Covenant with God?
Were the priest and Levite in Covenant with God?

Okay, assuming the separation of Samaritan and Jew occurred at the exile, that would put the Samaritans under the Mosaic covenant.

So, you're saying our neighbor is the covenant people of God?
In the NT, that would be the church.
So you think the NT limits neighbor to the church?

Let me chew on that for awhile.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The priests and Levites (priests) did not exist until the Mosaic covenant.
And Samaritans were not in the Mosaic covenant with God.

The Covenant came down to Moses around 1500 BC.
The Samaritans were the offspring of their conquerors the Assyrians and Babylonians from 722 BC and 586 BC respectively. They were the offspring from them from around Samaria. They were half-"Jews" and still in Covenant with God.

3 He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee. 4 And he must needs go through Samaria. 5 Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. 6 Now Jacob’s well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour. 7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. 8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.) 9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. 10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. 11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? 12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? 13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. 15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: 18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. 19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
Jn 4:3–26.

Samaritans awaited the Christ as well.
Jesus revealed Himself to her.
Being Covenant she became saved.

 

[jeremiah1five]

But if I live i Minnesota, am I not still to regard the Muslim down the street as my neighbor if he needs what he is unable to provide for himself?

Let's go back to the original command in Leviticus 19:17-18 for the answer you do not seem to recognize.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Okay, assuming the separation of Samaritan and Jew occurred at the exile, that would put the Samaritans under the Mosaic covenant.

So, you're saying our neighbor is the covenant people of God?
In the NT, that would be the church.
So you think the NT limits neighbor to the church?

Let me chew on that for awhile.

Bingo!
Either Christ changed the Law of God in Leviticus 19:17-18 or there is a very serious error in understanding the command in Leviticus 19:17-18.

Pretty sharp, Eleanor.
I think I'll post THE LAW OF GOD PART 2 now.

 

[Eleanor]

The Covenant came down to Moses around 1500 BC.
The Samaritans were the offspring of their conquerors the Assyrians and Babylonians from 722 BC and 586 BC respectively. They were the offspring from them from around Samaria. They were half-"Jews" and still in Covenant with God.

How were they half-Jews?

 

[Eleanor]

Bingo!
Either Christ changed the Law of God in Leviticus 19:17-18 or there is a very serious error in understanding the command in Leviticus 19:17-18.

Pretty sharp, Eleanor.
I think I'll post THE LAW OF GOD PART 2 now.

I'm still chewing.

Did the Jews see the Samaratans as the people of God?
If they did not, Jesus' point would be that your neighbor is not just the people of God.

"The Jews had no dealings with the Samaritans."
That means to me the Jews did not see them as the people of God, and in that context, Jesus' point was that your neighbor is not just the people of God.

Swallow.

 

[jeremiah1five]

How were they half-Jews?

See #44

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Mt 5:17–18.

The Law Jesus Christ is referring to is the Law of God contained in the Pentateuch, the Five Books from Genesis to Deuteronomy.

Very good. Did Jesus fulfill that Law? What of the Prophets?

Question #1. Do you agree?

With?

Question #2 Do you also agree that any change in the Law of God destroys the Law of God?

Did Christ's fulfilling of the Law destroy the Law?
Did Christ's changes too the Law ( "you have heard it said...but I say..." ) destroy the Law?

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Just as an aside...Paul seemed to be of the opinion that the Law still existed for the Jews. It's just that it had absolutely no bearing on him. A "Jew".

"All things are lawful to me but not all things are expedient..."

How does that work?

 

[Eleanor]

See #44

That doesn't tell me how they were "half."

Were they Jews by descent from their mother instead of their father, which does not count as his people in God's geneaology?

 

[Eleanor]

Just as an aside...Paul seemed to be of the opinion that the Law still existed for the Jews. It's just that it had absolutely no bearing on him. A "Jew".

"All things are lawful to me but not all things are expedient..."

How does that work?

The Levitical laws do not exist for anyone.

Paul was not under the law, but if circumcision was for the purpose of evangelizing, he would have circumcision (Timothy), whereas, if circumcision was because the Judaizers believed circumcision was necessary for salvation, he would not allow circumcision (Titus).

Non-circumcision was lawful for Timothy, but not expedient for his ministry to Jews..

 

[jeremiah1five]

Very good. Did Jesus fulfill that Law? What of the Prophets?



With?



Did Christ's fulfilling of the Law destroy the Law?
Did Christ's changes too the Law ( "you have heard it said...but I say..." ) destroy the Law?

The Law Jesus Christ is referring to is the Law of God contained in the Pentateuch, the Five Books from Genesis to Deuteronomy.
Q1: Is this correct?

Fulfilling the Law as our Advocate is the reason of our justification. God declares His saved people "Not Guilty" of any sin against the Law as Christ fulfilled it, Christ is in us by faith, and this is the basis of our justification. God sees us as fulfilling the Law as well.
"You have heard it said..." is bringing up a particular statute of the Law. "But I say unto you..." is Christ's upholding that Law in particular and providing the "spirit of the Law" as opposed to the "letter of the Law" which was the underlying issue with the religious leaders on the Law of God.
The religious leaders without the Holy Spirit only understood the "letter of the Law." Paul as priest knew the "Letter" until illuminated by the Holy Spirit and then he understood and was able to write a great portion of the NT.

"The Prophets..." were fulfilled where His first coming was concerned. There are still many prophecies of Israel's Messiah to be yet fulfilled.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Just as an aside...Paul seemed to be of the opinion that the Law still existed for the Jews. It's just that it had absolutely no bearing on him. A "Jew".

"All things are lawful to me but not all things are expedient..."

How does that work?

It works through our justification and the Presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives.
God sees His redeemed people through the work of Christ.
Christ was innocent and through His Presence we are innocent.
Without Christ we are all dead men walking.
But thanks be to God for His unspeakable gift.
(But we talk about it still.)

 

[jeremiah1five]

That doesn't tell me how they were "half."

Were they Jews by descent from their mother instead of their father, which does not count as his people in God's geneaology?

Both mother and father. Either through rape, marriage, fornication, concubines due to conquest by Assyrians and Babylonians and other groups of people in and outside of Samaria are offspring considered "half-"Jews" quarter-"Jews," etc.
The lineage of Jesus Christ is listed through both mother (Mary) and father (Joseph.)

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Levitical laws do not exist for anyone.

Paul was not under the law, but if circumcision was for the purpose of evangelizing, he would have circumcision (Timothy), whereas, if circumcision was because the Judaizers believed circumcision was necessary for salvation, he would not allow circumcision (Titus).

Non-circumcision was lawful for Timothy, but not expedient for his ministry to Jews..

The ONLY Laws not in effect are the Sacrificial Laws.
We are still under obligation and command to obey the other two-parts of the Law (Social/Moral.)

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore rlove is the fulfilling of the law. Rom. 13:8–10.

Also, other Laws guiding Christians such as not muzzling the ox as he treads the corn.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Rom. 3:31.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

The Law Jesus Christ is referring to is the Law of God contained in the Pentateuch, the Five Books from Genesis to Deuteronomy.
Q1: Is this correct?

There being no other Law for Him to be concerned with at the time I'd have to say yes.

Fulfilling the Law as our Advocate is the reason of our justification. God declares His saved people "Not Guilty" of any sin against the Law as Christ fulfilled it, Christ is in us by faith, and this is the basis of our justification. God sees us as fulfilling the Law as well.

I think you might run afoul of the reason for justification here. Christ is our substitute. He fulfilled the Law where we could not and paid the blood price where we could not. Substitutionary atonement.

"You have heard it said..." is bringing up a particular statute of the Law. "But I say unto you..." is Christ's upholding that Law in particular and providing the "spirit of the Law" as opposed to the "letter of the Law" which was the underlying issue with the religious leaders on the Law of God.

Horsefeathers. You can stare at "Eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth" until the end of time and not come up with "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also." Jesus is the new Law giver.

The religious leaders without the Holy Spirit only understood the "letter of the Law." Paul as priest knew the "Letter" until illuminated by the Holy Spirit and then he understood and was able to write a great portion of the NT.

Paul called everything he knew and did prior to Christ a steaming pile of...stuff. He found that everything he, or we, needed is in Christ...not the Law.

"The Prophets..." were fulfilled where His first coming was concerned. There are still many prophecies of Israel's Messiah to be yet fulfilled.

Agreed.

 

[Eleanor]

Both mother and father. Either through rape, marriage, fornication, concubines due to conquest by Assyrians and Babylonians and other groups of people in and outside of Samaria are offspring considered "half-"Jews" quarter-"Jews," etc.
The lineage of Jesus Christ is listed through both mother (Mary) and father (Joseph.)

But only Father counts legally in God's reckoning.

The geneaology of Mary is given to establish that she is of the line of David, making Jesus a blood son of David.
Joseph's genealogy, his legal father and, therefore, geneaology of legal record, is given to establish Jesus is of the kingly line of David through Solomon.

 

[jeremiah1five]

There being no other Law for Him to be concerned with at the time I'd have to say yes.



I think you might run afoul of the reason for justification here. Christ is our substitute. He fulfilled the Law where we could not and paid the blood price where we could not. Substitutionary atonement.


Horsefeathers. You can stare at "Eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth" until the end of time and not come up with "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also." Jesus is the new Law giver.



Paul called everything he knew and did prior to Christ a steaming pile of...stuff. He found that everything he, or we, needed is in Christ...not the Law.



Agreed.

Christ is the Old Lawgiver still.

Do you know how a slave is struck?
They are struck with the palm of the hand.