Object of our Faith?

[prism]

Well yes, but Ephesians 2:8 was true from the very beginning. That is one reason why Paul brought Abraham into the argument in Romans 4. So saved by grace through faith didn't begin with the incarnation even though the effects of the incarnation and all that followed was certainly retroactive back to the very beginning. Without the incarnation, there would be no salvation.

I'm saying the Incarnation was set up (God taking our humanity), so that Jesus could redeem man (the Gospel) and pour out His grace on mankind...

John 1:17 KJV
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
John 1:14 ESV
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

IOW, grace takes the Gospel, even if it's foreseen as with Abraham.

 

[JIM]

I'm saying the Incarnation was set up (God taking our humanity), so that Jesus could redeem man (the Gospel) and pour out His grace on mankind...

John 1:17 KJV
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
John 1:14 ESV
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

IOW, grace takes the Gospel, even if it's foreseen as with Abraham.

I agree. I would say it a little different. Yes, in the sense you are taking it, grace takes the Gospel. I consider, in the sense of Ephesians 2, that grace is an attribute of God. But both work for me.

 

[prism]

Agreed, but I don't see anywhere in Ephesians 2 that grace is an attribute of god. Ephesians 2 is not talking about attributes

 

[JIM]

Agreed, but I don't see anywhere in Ephesians 2 that grace is an attribute of god. Ephesians 2 is not talking about attributes

You are free to interpret "grace" any way you like, so long as it is not wrong or does not make sense. I prefer in that verse that salvation is by the grace of God, that is, by who God is in His very essence.

 

[prism]

You are free to interpret "grace" any way you like, so long as it is not wrong or does not make sense. I prefer in that verse that salvation is by the grace of God, that is, by who God is in His very essence.

I will agree that grace is the unmerited favor of God

 

[makesends]

You are free to interpret "grace" any way you like, so long as it is not wrong or does not make sense. I prefer in that verse that salvation is by the grace of God, that is, by who God is in His very essence.

You might want to rewrite that, lol. "You are free to interpret "grace" any way you like, ...so long as it does not [fail to] make sense."

 

[John Bauer]

The object of our faith. Is it Jesus? Or is it the gospel?

I would suggest a third option: The object of our faith is God and his promises. Jesus, the gospel of his life, death, and resurrection, and all the rest flow from God and his promises.

 

[makesends]

I would suggest a third option: The object of our faith is God and his promises. Jesus, the gospel of his life, death, and resurrection, and all the rest flow from God and his promises.

Occurs to me to ask. Does anyone know of a scripture that uses that term —"object of our faith"— or something nearly alike?

 

[John Bauer]

Occurs to me to ask. Does anyone know of a scripture that uses that term —"object of our faith"— or something nearly alike?

The phrase "believe in" carries precisely that implication. For example, "believe in his name" (John 1:12), "The one who believes in me does not believe in me but in the one who sent me" (John 12:44), "believe in the Lord Jesus" (Acts 16:31), "believe in God" (v. 34), "believe in the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead" (Rom 4:24), etc.

 

[prism]

I would suggest a third option: The object of our faith is God and his promises. Jesus, the gospel of his life, death, and resurrection, and all the rest flow from God and his promises.

I would consider ‘God and His promises’ as… (God = Jesus) and (‘promises’ = Gospel); so we’re not much further than when we began.

 

[Mr GLee]

It is Jesus. The gospel is a proclamation not an object.

A living proclamation "Let it be" and it the labor of love or work of Christ's faith was God alone good.

The law of powerful faith. . "Let there be"

 

[Eleanor]

So we can't separate the two?

Why would you?

 

[Eleanor]

You are free to interpret "grace" any way you like, so long as it is not wrong or does not make sense. I prefer in that verse that salvation is by the grace of God, that is, by who God is in His very essence.

God is also just "in His very essence."

Salvation is by the justice of God executed on Jesus Christ.

 

[makesends]

makesends said:
Occurs to me to ask. Does anyone know of a scripture that uses that term —"object of our faith"— or something nearly alike?

The phrase "believe in" carries precisely that implication. For example, "believe in his name" (John 1:12), "The one who believes in me does not believe in me but in the one who sent me" (John 12:44), "believe in the Lord Jesus" (Acts 16:31), "believe in God" (v. 34), "believe in the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead" (Rom 4:24), etc.

My question speaks to the monergism of salvation, and the Simplicity and Aseity (and several other attributes) of God.

The reason I asked is because the term, "object of", sounds passive on the part of that object. "Believe in" does not—at the worst, it would sound to the casual reader, neutral, on the part of the object. Even in, "looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith" the terminology does not sound passive on the part of that object.

So, I'm just suggesting —maybe even speculating—in how our inexact language can mislead us, when we want to identify what is that object of our faith, we may be misleading ourselves. (It's kind of like us speculating whether God thought of Christ's sacrifice before he thought of Adam. From God's point of view, the answer is, "the question is presumptive". God does not think like we do.) If Christ is only the object of our faith, we are creating a structure of thinking that introduces unnatural elements into the theme.

But, maybe I'm nit-picking.

 

[prism]

Why would you?

I was just asking, Post #3

 

[Mr GLee]

Why would you?

Who could separate his labor of Love "let there be" from and "it was good "?

God is not served by the dying hands of mankind He pours out His Holy Spirit life on them

The law of faith (power) believing something will appear after declaring

Like fireworks It would prove to be a dud. . firework without fire. . . all one thing. A faithful work or labor of love.

Like my wife her little apostle sent messenger, errand boy. Sends me on an adventure to the supermarket with a list not to add or subtract from. Finishing the mission I receive the apostle's reward. . two homemade peanut butter cookies and a cold glass of whole milk

He freely gives us a little of His faith or power calling us ones with little power. Plenty to do his let there be will.

Luke 17:5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.. . . .(power)

 

[Eleanor]

I was just asking, Post #3

What do the Scriptures say? Jn 3:18, Ro 3:25.

 

[prism]

What do the Scriptures say? Jn 3:18, Ro 3:25

I could just as well bring up... 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (KJV) Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


And besides Romans 3:25 refers to Christ in his passive obedience.

 

[Mr GLee]

So you are saying both? Jesus and His work on our behalf?

The power of "Let there be" faith of the father working in powerless Son of man Jesus.

The dynamic duo.

 

[Eleanor]

I could just as well bring up... 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (KJV) Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


And besides Romans 3:25 refers to Christ in his passive obedience.

Oh, no! Surely not that!