No repentance for God is by our own will power alone

[Mercy_Shown]

Oh for Pete's sake. Jesus performed healings to illustrate that He is God. I am sick of this song.

No, you are missing the bigger picture. Everything Christ did had a purpose. If it was simply to prove that he was God, then all He had to do was perform miracles for Herod.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

DOES IT SAY THAT ANYWHERE IN THOSE PASSAGES?! Why do you put it in there? God have mercy on your people!

Of course, it does, what do you imagine "follow me" means? Salvation is the reason the man was asking Jesus his questions. Jesus loved Him but did not pour irresistible grace upon him and change his heart, but if the man had submitted to him and followed him it would have been a very different story.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

What do you mean by hyper Calvinism? Yet another straw man. It is all that free will folks of any sort, argue with.

Not at all, Hyper-Calvinism is a branch of Protestant theology that places strong emphasis on supralapsarianism.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Christ could have saved Him but obviously he did not intend to. The Father was not giving him to Jesus. Just as He could have called up legions of angels to save Him from the cross---but that was not the Father's will. So just as Reformed teaches (as opposed to your straw man) God bestows saving grace on whoever He pleases.

Yes, and he would that all men should be saved.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

I have heard that over and over like the free will hymn,the mantra upon which they stand no matter what is shown them in black and white, and still none have shown me that the Bible says that without their adding things to it that aren't there. So tell it to God and try and pay attention when He speaks through His word. Tell Him what He does with the wills of those He made out of dirt.

No matter how much evidence is presented, you tend to ignore it and come up with exegesis based on conclusions already arrived at. However, if we look at the entire Bible, we can see that God's plan of salvation is clear - whoever believes in Him will not perish. While some Calvinists may argue otherwise, their stance is based on a few passages that are potentially misguided.

Calvinism ultimately makes the cross fairly meaningless since God's will to change a heart is not dependent on a blood sacrifice, it is in the potter's hand to make the pot anyway he wants. God did not need the cross to favor Jacob or hate Esau. The cross only makes sense in light of God granting men a choice.

God could have created Adam and Eve without the possibility of sinning. He could have poured effective Grace upon the devil. Calvinism simply does not comport with the cross.

 

[Ghada]

I know some things I say go against 'mainline Gentile Christian theology and belief

Being saved by the blood of the Lamb, but not being in the covenant of the blood of the Lamb, certainly would apply.

Deeply original indeed.

But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak;

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

, but I'm confident I am right because I know who I am in the Lord, what my call and gifts are,

Noted. Nothing about the Bible and rightly dividing it nor teaching it.

A whole lot of godhood going on here: "I'm confident I'm right, because I say I'm right."

And again, "If I really believe it, it really must be so..."

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

and that God is still allowing more light given to individuals (like me)

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

You certainly show how the Jew-only messiah seekers haven't changed a bit.

See, now you're saying the same thing as God. Saying the opposite comes from the word "oppose" and it's not correct Christian behavior to do that for then that only shows that your Daddy is not the Spirit of Truth, but the Spirit of Error and we know who's big papa in that lifestyle.

Huh?

Anyway, like the man said, "Let it go. He's on a roll."

Great. The New Covenant statements of Saul to Jewish Christian believers at Rome (Italy) as he applies passages from their Hebrew Scriptures to Gentile proselytes who have allied themselves with Israel- not becoming a Jew

True. not a Jew in the flesh. But an inward Jew and Christian circumcised by the Spirit, and graffed into the New Covenant green and holy tree of the house of Israel and Judah.

Jews in the flesh that are not circumcised of Christ in the Spirit, are not Jews graffed in again to the His NT tree of Israel and Judah.

(because the Covenant is with Abraham and his seed and Gentiles are not his seed

Not his natural seed no. Nor desiring to be. And so I seek no promise of land Abraham walked on, when the Lord gives it to him and his natural seed after His return to earth.

This promise of course having nothing to do with the promised seed, that is Christ and His new covenant to all men every where that repent for His sake.

nor are they as Gentiles NOT of the natural Olive tree),

Yep. Carnal minded changing of the Bible, to write your own book.

The natural branches are the natural Jews after the flesh. The olive tree is the holy covenant tree of God the Spirit and Christ.

We are graffed into the olive tree of the Israel of God on earth, not into the natural children of Abraham by flesh only.

but their association as "foreigner" and "stranger"

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Being just another Jews-only messiah seeker, the only thing you have to do with the NT of Jesus Christ, is blaspheming His name as your Jews-only messiah.

they cannot be considered "Jew" because Gentiles do not come out of the tribe of Judah nor are they of any tribe or family of Jacob/Israel biologically

No doubt. And don't want to be either. It's all just flesh and blood anyway.

and that's what is meant by NATURAL Olive tree

No, this is what is meant by carnal minded OT Jews, knowing nothing of the new covenant green and holy olive tree of the risen God of Israel.

as opposed to allies who do everything LIKE a tribal son of Jacob would and not NATURALLY a son of Jacob/Israel, but Saul calls them "WILD" and associates them with the NATURAL Olive tree. It's a good analogy. I understand it. DO YOU?

Yes. I can understand carnal minded teaching, that has no Spirit nor truth of God's words in the Bible.

Sere, this is where you split off from the Truth of God's Word. Gentiles are NEVER said to be an Olive tree in the Hebrew Scriptures

I know. I'm quoting from Romans 11. It's in Greek.

, and you are misunderstanding the identity of "WILD" Olive tree by saying they are hard-core, UNCIRCUMCISED, NON-COVENANT idol-worshiping Gentiles

That's what you said. I just apply to Jews and Gentiles alike, that have not repented for Jesus' sake, and have not His NT circumcision of the Spirit, nor are graffed into His new covenant olive tree.

There are unrepented Gentiles still worshipping idols of the nations, and there are unrepented Jews still worshipping a Jews-only idol.

when they are NOT. Now, IF you can find a passage in the Hebrew Scriptures where it is said Gentiles are an Olive tree then I'd support you

I don't care about support for me. I'm not like you. I am not an idol god unto myself thinking it's all about what I think.

I only look for support of the Bible righty divided and lived. And I already know you don't support it. But, I do always like quoting it:

For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

even born-again Gentiles as part of the Abrahamic Covenant

As I said, the only reason I engage you, is because you try to name Christ Jesus in all your Jews-only old covenant stuff.

But even in the OT covenant, Gentile converts married into the natural seed of Israel, so that their offspring were counted of the blood line of Abraham.

I mean, you do know that Ruth was a Gentile Moabite convert, right? And that her great-grandson was David, correct? And Rahab the Gentile of Jericho not only had offspring of Abraham's seed, but she is specifically ,mentioned as the example of justification by works alongside Abraham. True?

Look, you are so blinded to God being the God of all the earth, that you even exclude Gentiles from any lineage of Abraham, and entering into the covenant of God with the children of Israel.

then you'd be in error and everything you attach to that understanding would be false. Even a lie. So, get your understanding in line with Scripture and say the same thing as God and I'll 'get your back.'

I don't want anything to do with you, your Jews-only messiah, nor your Jews-only bloodless covenant.

I'm doing good in keeping you off my back.

The Abrahamic Covenant is with Abram the Hebrew and his seed and Gentiles are NOT Abrahams seed.

If you'd said that to David, and disrespected his own grandmother, he may have grabbed the sword of Goliath and taught you proper manners.

The New Covenant - just as is the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants - has no mention of a "circumcision of Christ"

Ok, look. All you're doing is preaching the old covenant of God. And you pervert it too.

So, if this is all you have left to do as a Jews-only messiah seeker, then I'll be moving on.

The New Covenant is between God

That would be the risen God of Israel. I preach the new covenant written in the NT of the Bible.

and the House of Israel (northern ten sons/tribes of Jacob) and the House of Judah (southern two son/tribes of Jacob.)

Israel after the flesh has nothing to do with the olive tree Israel of God, other than repenting for Jesus' sake, as all men are not commanded to do. Whether Jew or Gentile, if not repented and circumcised of Christ, then not graffed nor born into the new covenant of Jesus Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

In light of repentance being of Christ and His Saving prerogative, it's not scriptural to make it a condition for sinners to perform in order to get saved. 3

 

[jeremiah1five]

Covenant of the blood? What is that? Is that stated in Scripture? Because if you're just trying to manipulate words to say that Christ was among the implements contained in the Covenants God made with Israel then I would agree.
And it's not only biblical but it is true. God made NO COVENANT with Gentiles in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets - the Hebrew Scriptures - and yet by His own prerogative He is saving Gentiles WITHOUT a Covenant.

Well, that's what Scripture teaches. Messiah and the Holy Spirit of Promise was promised to Israel.
That's why He's called "a prophet like unto me" (Moses said in Deut. 18:15), and "I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses" in Ezekiel 36:27–29.

What you suffer from is what's called Gentile Re-Interpretation Syndrome LYte or G.R.I.S.L.Y, for short. That is a condition that passes from one Gentile to the next through reading and hearing Gentile re-interpretation of the Hebrew Scriptures and Covenants and Prophecies contained in the Hebrew Scriptures with a Gentile mindset. It's a failure to hear and see the Hebrew Scriptures of Law, Psalms, and Prophets in the context in which they were written, which put simply is to the Hebrews/children of Israel/Jews. It is a re-interpretation of the Jewish Scriptures with a Gentile mindset viewing everything in those Jewish Scriptures and substituting everything Jewish in the Jewish Scriptures with everything Gentile. Examples of this are the belief that Jesus was a Gentile who was given to Gentiles and that Gentiles are part of the Jewish Covenants. It's a total re-fabrication of Jewish history, culture, religious practices, Jewish individuals, Jewish Covenants, prophets and their prophecies, and are made to become Gentile and worldly in every sense of the word. And it can be deadly if left unchecked and untreated.
God has NEVER called Gentiles an Olive tree nor a "wild" Olive tree in Scripture.
They don't need to be "grafted in again." They are ALREADY a natural Olive Tree to begin with, and with the advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise and through the act of being born again of the Holy Spirit of Promise become SPIRITUAL Israel as per the dictates of their Covenants.
Yes, and your book written through the eyeglass lens of Gentile Re-Interpretation Syndrome is also a carnal, unscriptural view of the Hebrew/Jewish Scriptures.
Messiah was Promised to Israel (Deut. 18:15.)
Israel have come to be known as [the] Jews after the tribe of Judah. Messiah was NEVER promised to Gentiles because God had never done that nor is there any passage of Scripture stating this.
Israel is very aware of what is contained in their Scriptures concerning their Redeemer, Messiah, and King.
Even as Jesus was on the planet the Jews wanted to take Him by force and make Him their King. The disciples themselves before Jesus Christ ascended asked Him about restoring the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6.)
If you want to talk about "carnal-minded teaching" all one has to do is bring up Gentile Re-Interpretation of the Jewish Scriptures.
First, there is no requirement of faith in the Abrahamic Covenant.
Second, there is no requirement of faith in the New Covenant described in the prophecy in Jeremiah 31.
Third, God has covenant with Israel and one of the provisions of that covenant is that God is going to save ALL His Bride and Church who, incidentally, are identified as Israel.
Fourth, Israel is also called an "Olive tree." The Olive tree is the National symbol for Israel,
and Fifth, Gentiles are never called an "Olive tree" in Scripture.
So, who's changing the Word of God and re-interpreting the Scripture?
No, it's really what you think which is revealed in your posts. You suffer from G.R.I.S.L.Y, Gentile Re-Interpretation Syndrome LYte.
But a case can be made that it is more like FULL BLOWN G.R.I.S.
The Jews did it. I do it, too.
No, they were not considered the bloodline of Abraham, nor were their offspring. Just like the half-Jew half-Gentile Samaritans which made it easy to make them outcasts because of their mix breed. It was a no-no for any Hebrew man to marry a Gentile. The Jews were big on genealogy and could trace their family lines all the way back to the twelve tribes and that was through nearly 2000 years of record-keeping. Even through the process of "kinsman-redeemer Jewish males didn't like when that situation happened. Onan "spilled" his sperm because he didn't want to raise up half-Jew, half-Gentile seed. So, let's not Re-Interpret Jewish history and culture by presenting half-Jew half-Gentile marriages as though it was commonplace BECAUSE IT WASN'T.
Ruth enjoyed the BLESSINGS of the Abrahamic Covenant but by being Gentile was not IN covenant because strictly speaking, the covenant was with Abraham AND HIS SEED and Ruth was not of Abraham's seed. However,
I don't exclude Gentiles from 'any lineage of Abraham,' the bible does. The Abrahamic Covenant does not include Gentiles. So, why do you maintain this fallacy? Let's see if you can be exegetical rather than eisegetical. Look at the text below:

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen. 17:7.

This covenant is between God and Abraham primarily, and secondarily, to his seed "after their generations." Their generations mean Abraham's Hebrew descendants through Isaac (directly) and Jacob (directly) and to Jacob's children which as time progressed included his twelve sons also known as the children of Jacob/Israel. At this point there are NO GENTILES included. This covenant mentions God who made this covenant to be a God "unto thee" (Abraham), and to "thy seed after thee" (Abraham's seed-children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc.)
Are we on the same page here?
Because if you deviate from this truth then you are posting lies, something I've said you have done but are blind to this fact.
So, I've said the same thing as God. I've also rightly divided His Word of truth in saying the same thing as God and understanding as such the thing He has said.
Now, are you going to take Genesis 17:7 which does not include Gentiles and oppose God and say it does include Gentiles (which is impossible because Gentiles are not of the seed of Abraham.)?
Where you at.
See above.
No, he would have acknowledged the truth I said.
He knows God desires TRUTH in our inward parts (Ps. 51.)

Ok, look. All you're doing is preaching the old covenant of God. And you pervert it too.

No, I'm preaching ALL the Covenants of God because ALL the Covenants of God are in play.
God calls the Abrahamic Covenant an "everlasting covenant" meaning eternal, like Himself and like His Word and Promises.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen. 17:7.

So, if this is all you have left to do as a Jews-only messiah seeker, then I'll be moving on.

Mashiach/Messiah means "Anointed One." The "Anointed One" was Promised to Israel. He was to be born from "among [their] brethren." And when He appeared He appeared/manifest Himself to Israel as per covenant and prophecy (John 1:31.)
While in Israel He taught Israel. He says Himself "[He was] sent TO the lost sheep of the House of Israel."

That would be the risen God of Israel. I preach the new covenant written in the NT of the Bible.

No, you preach another version of the New Covenant described in Jeremaih 31:31-34. A version that has no biblical truth in it.

Israel after the flesh has nothing to do with the olive tree Israel of God,

Israel "after the flesh" is the physical/natural Israel.
Israel "after the Spirit" is spiritual Israel which came into being on the Day of Pentecost in which WITHOUT FAITH God saved through the born-again experience initiated by the Holy Spirit of Promise being applied to Jewish lives and the which in one day 3000 Jews were spiritually delivered from the eternal effects of sin and sin nature. Redemption had finally come to God's Chosen people Israel "after the flesh" and in a whole new identity: AFTER THE SPIRIT.

I AM a Biblical Christian. That's THE ONLY KIND there is in existence. If one's Christianity is not Biblical, then IT IS NOT CHRISTIANITY.
Bottom line.

 

[brightfame52]

Like Faith, True Repentance is from a Spiritual Source, its the Gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. Repentance thats towards God can be that which leadeth to Godly sorrow 2 Cor 7:10

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

So this being true, this type of repentance in regards to salvation is from a godly source ! That godly source cant be out from the flesh of sinful man, which I believe can only worketh or lead to death !4

 

[brightfame52]

Opposite to what mans religion teaches, Christ the Shepherd is responsible for bringing the Sheep of God to repentance, and not the Sheep's responsibility to bring themselves to repentance. This is plainly seen in the parable of the lost Sheep, observe Lk 15:1-7

Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.

2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Now notice the man or shepherd, who I believe pictures the Lord Jesus Christ, He feels His responsibility to go out and find the lost Sheep that was under His care, He goes out until He finds it.

And its His finding it that results in its repentance and return Vs 5-7

 

[Ghada]

*SIGH*

I've already responded truth to your misunderstanding and I'm not going to repeat myself.

Dittoes. As I said, once nothing new is given, then there's nothing more to read.

 

[Ghada]

No, it's not impossible because God is doing just that: saving Gentiles without a covenant.

Now, let's just cut to the chase and resolve my having to repeat myself over and over and over again to you.

SHOW ME IN THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES OF THE LAW, PSALMS, AND PROPHETS OF GOD MAKING A COVENANT WITH UNCIRCUMCISED GENTILES.

Go ahead. SHOW ME THE SCRIPTURE.

The God of Israel did not make any covenant with Gentiles, before Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. He only prophesied bringing in the Gentiles to His new covenant by Jesus Christ resurrected from the dead.

I'm not a Jew-only covenant keeper.

I keep the new covenant of Jesus Christ.

As I said, I don't argue with OT Jews.

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

 

[Ghada]

It doesn't say these two were Gentile, Gentile proselyte, or Jew.

You've made past attempts to argue something else, and I responded.

But now, I don't try to fix people's lack of grammatical skills. Especially when it's on purpose.

But I think

Neither do I argue with what people want to think, in order to revise history.

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Are you biblical?

Enough to accept the words as written. I may not like them, nor even agree at times, but I certainly don't try to rewrite them into what I like and want to agree with.

You're not even honest with books, much less biblical.

Abrahamic Covenant. NO MENTION OF GENTILES. If there were they'd ALL be circumcised. ALL OF THEM.

I still don't argue with OT Jews.

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
Jer. 31:31–33.

The green and holy Olive tree of the Israel of God, that now Gentiles are grafted into, and Jews are grafted again into.

So, by contradicting himself and changing an OT prophecy Saul lost some credibility with me and everything he says I do not take without checking to verify he truly is in accordance with the Lawe, Psalms, and Prophets.

Both Jesus and Paul lost all credibility with Jews-only covenant makers.

That's why your carnal and spiritual forefathers had Jesus crucified, and tried to have Paul killed.

Ah, yes, the ol' 'rejection argument' that Israel rejected their Messiah and so they are no longer in covenant with God.

Only the unrepentant Jews-only covenant makers.

Them that repent are grafted in again to the olive tree of the risen God of Israel.

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Well, first, God has made an everlasting covenant with Abraham and his seed - children of Israel.

Which is done away by slaying the Testator.

The risen Lord of Israel now has a covenant with any man that repents of sins for His sake.

He still has a land and natural priesthood promise to fulfill with Abraham and his natural seed. It's a promise, not a covenant.

Third, what happened in Jerusalem with regard to the crucifixion is not a cross-section of all Jews as the greater majority in Israeli cities and towns throughout the land as well as throughout the Gentile lands where the MAJORITY of Jews lived were not part of "Crucify! Crucify!" only the majority of the religious leaders (minus Nicodemus and Joseph) that called for Messiah's crucifixion.

As I said, I don't argue with revisionism.

Jesus prophesied they would all forsake Him, and they did.

Jesus bar Joseph.

As I said, I don't argue with OT Jews, that deny Jesus Christ was God the Word made flesh.

I've never read this 'Jesus bar Joseph' in the Bible. I've never even heard it before, until one of you Jews-only covenant makers intruded into a Christian site, while blaspheming the name of Jesus Christ as your Jews-only messiah.

But, if that's the way you talk among yourselves, that's fine by me. It just doesn't have anything to do with the NT risen God of Israel Jesus Christ.

 

[Ghada]

Amen, many received not the Holy Spirit of Reformation (1st century Hebrew 9) as if the time to remove the ceremonial shadows had not come.

True. I now understand that circumcision and the law of Moses, was only incidental to the Jews-only messiahs rejecting Jesus Christ.

It's the fact that He declared their natural flesh and lineage no longer mattered in the reformation of God's new covenant with all people.

The later Judaizers naming Christ just couldn't let it go, and so demanded the Gentile converts at least get circumcised in the flesh.

Peter even had a continued Jews' sectarianism, until Paul rebuked him for it.

Paul was chosen as apostle to the Gentiles, because he made Peter look like a piker, when it came to the Jews religion. Once the Lord took the veil of Moses away from his heart on Damascus, he didn't play any more games with it.

I would think it's invisible beyond the eyes of temporal dying mankind .The spiritual house the church is made up of many lively stones to represent all the nations .

His spiritual house is within, and His body is of His flesh and bones on earth.

Believer's do not seek as sign as shadows .They have the perfect book of prophecy the living abiding word of God.

Exactly. The NT shows fulfillment of all promises, prophecies, and doctrine of God and Christ.

The veil to represent the seal of circumcision of our "bloody husband Christ" was rent, the holy of holies was opened .There was no Jewish man as King of kings, Lord of lords there . Satan could no longer deceive all the nations of the world that God is a Jewish man . Jesus said of his own flesh profits for zero, nothing

True again.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

In the flesh there is Jew and Gentile by lineage only. But there is no Jew nor Gentile int he Spirit and body of Christ. The Word was not a Jew.

The flesh made for the Word was Jewish and Hebrew by Mary, David, and Abraham.

 

[Ghada]

Covenant of the blood? What is that?

The blood of the covenant. OT bulls and goats. NT Lamb of God.

Without the blood of the covenant, there is no covenant with God.

By separating Gentiles washed in the blood of the Lamb, from your Jews-only covenant, you make your covenant without the blood of the Lamb.

And since you Jews-only messiah seekers don't even have the blood of bulls and goats covenant anymore, then your whole covenant is bloodless.

 

[Ghada]

God has NEVER called Gentiles an Olive tree nor a "wild" Olive tree in Scripture.

For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Jews-only messiah seekers are still blind to simple language of the NT, because all you want to see is fellow Jews-only messiah seekers.

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

Examples of this are the belief that Jesus was a Gentile

I don't argue against nonsense.

They don't need to be "grafted in again."

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

The Jews did it. I do it, too.

No one is denying you Jews-only messiah seekers stick together.

However, I do wonder how many of them keep company with one naming Jesus Christ as their Jews-only messiah.

So far, your the only one I've ever heard of. Maybe I'll go onto an OT Jewish site and ask them about it, if I can find one.

No doubt they would just write you off as a wanna be Christian, profaning the Jews-only messiah they still seek.

No, they were not considered the bloodline of Abraham, nor were their offspring. Just like the half-Jew half-Gentile Samaritans which made it easy to make them outcasts because of their mix breed.

You sound like a NAZI with Jew blood on the brain.

It was a no-no for any Hebrew man to marry a Gentile.

Tell that to Ruth.

You can't even read the OT without a Jew-only vail over your profane heart.

The Jews were big on genealogy and could trace their family lines all the way back to the twelve tribes and that was through nearly 2000 years of record-keeping.

You still are.

Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Even through the process of "kinsman-redeemer Jewish males didn't like when that situation happened.

And now it is true that I am thy near kinsman: howbeit there is a kinsman nearer than I.

Boaz was happy enough, because unlike you wanna be Jews-only, he saw character before race.

And so, you can claim for your forefather the nameless guy that refused Ruth, and so had nothing to do with the bloodline of David and Jesus Christ after the flesh.

Which is no doubt why God didn't chose to so much as mention his name. You can just call your spiritual father, "Ho, such a one..."

Onan "spilled" his sperm because he didn't want to raise up half-Jew, half-Gentile seed.

And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

Onan didn't have an issue with Tamar, but with raising seed to his brother.

You truly are caught up in your Jew-only eyes, just as the German-only NAZI's.

Ruth enjoyed the BLESSINGS of the Abrahamic Covenant but by being Gentile was not IN covenant because strictly speaking, the covenant was with Abraham AND HIS SEED and Ruth was not of Abraham's seed. However,

And neither David, nor Jesus after the flesh.

Nor Mary by whom Jesus was born.

Israel "after the flesh" is the physical/natural Israel.

True.

Israel "after the Spirit" is spiritual Israel

True.

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

And you may be the first, but certainly not the latter. There is no such thing as spiritually pure and outwardly unrighteous. Not in the OT nor the New.

Nor is your covenant with the God of Israel nor of Jesus Christ. It's bloodless.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The God of Israel did not make any covenant with Gentiles, before Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. He only prophesied bringing in the Gentiles to His new covenant by Jesus Christ resurrected from the dead.

He never promised to bring Gentiles into any Jewish Covenant (Abrahamic, Mosaic, or New.)
Why promise to do something like that after the covenants were closed? He should have just included Gentiles in the covenants as He made them at the time, but He didn't. Makes no sense at all. And it would violate the existing covenants to add Gentiles after the fact, after the covenants were made and closed. But that's the error of Gentile propaganda to try to elbow their way into the Jewish Covenants only AFTER Gentiles began to be born-again after the Temple's destruction and the end of Judaism. Or, should I say, temporary cessation of Judaism. After the third Temple is built Judaism will be back on the map.

I'm not a Jew-only covenant keeper.

Too bad. God has covenant with Hebrews/Jews ONLY.
Abraham was Hebrew. His children and their children were Hebrew. God delivered about 4 million Hebrews from Egypt and later while in the desert made covenant with the children of Hebrews aka the children of the Hebrew Jacob. He has twelve sons and married in the family and by the time Jeremiah prophesied the New Covenant around the middle of the 700s BC that covenant also included the House of Hebrews, too.
Then while Hebrews were under the Roman boot the Hebrew Covenant of Jeremiah was realized when 3000 Hebrews were born-again which began the Church Christ promised to build. By weeks end about 21,000 Jews were added to the New Covenant Hebrew Church Christ was building every day, every week, every month, every year, for four decades. Then the Hebrew Temple was destroyed by Gentiles and later some of those Gentiles may have become born-again themselves and thus began the inheritance theft by Gentiles as the substituted Hebrews for Gentiles and here we are 1900 years later, and the end of the Times of the Gentiles will come with the destruction of the present-day Gentile nations as a result of God's judgment of those heathen nations. Last I checked millions of Gentile Christians live in those western, free-world Gentile nations and while they have become comfortable in "peace and safety," then sudden destruction comes upon them like a woman with child and they shall NOT escape.
What? You think Gentile Christians will escape God's judgment by believing in a rapture and give them a way out from His judgment? Do you really think Gentile Christians are in the clear of God's judgment? God has covenant with the Hebrew people and He not only judged them, the apple of His eye, but also scattered them to the four corners of the world and you think non-covenant, uncircumcised Gentiles are going to escape in some false rapture? That makes me laugh ha-ha.

I keep the new covenant of Jesus Christ.

If you're Gentile you have no covenant to speak of for Messiah was promised to covenant Israel, NOT Gentiles. Check Deut. 18:15 if you don't believe me. Ha-ha.

As I said, I don't argue with OT Jews.

Good. Because if you come at them with some false Gentile covenant which includes their Messiah, you'd lose the argument and all your money. Ha-ha.

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

Yup. That was 1900 years ago.
And very soon God will remove that blindness, place it upon Gentiles and the reverse of what happened to Jews and Judaism will happen to Gentiles and their Christianity.
Call it prophecy from God to me to all you Gentiles.
You want to claim to be in the House of God (Israel), then man-up when judgment begins in the House of God. (Israel.) Ha-ha.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The God of Israel did not make any covenant with Gentiles, before Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. He only prophesied bringing in the Gentiles to His new covenant by Jesus Christ resurrected from the dead.

You know, I'd ask for the Scripture and waste my ink because there is no Scripture to support your "covenant with Jesus" you being Gentile. There is simply no such thing. Unless, or course, you're Hebrew because the Messiah was prophesied to covenant Israel and to covenant Israel He came (Jn. 1:31.) Not only that how does your "covenant with Jesus" being Gentile hold up to the fact that you're Gentile and God nor His Messiah never made a covenant with Gentiles. More Gentile propaganda.
But I will say that the Mosaic Covenant was instituted on the Last Passover Jesus observed. He didn't come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill.
The New Covenant was instituted with the Advent of the Holy Spirit. Again, the Holy Spirit of Promise (to Israel) was between the House of Israel and God. God never promised a covenant instrument such as the Holy Spirit to Gentiles. God made NO COVENANT with Gentiles. All those Sunday's worth of observing the Last Supper with the bread and wine was made between God, Christ, and Israel. Like I said, Gentiles stole everything concerning their covenants with God and after the destruction of their Temple started the theft of Israel inheritance to what it is today.

I'm not a Jew-only covenant keeper.

That's because you're not a Hebrew. So, you can't even be a Gentile-only covenant keeper because there is no covenant God made with Gentiles.

I keep the new covenant of Jesus Christ.

Inheritance theft. ALL the covenants including Christ was made with the children of Abraham. If you seek to take what God gave to Israel then you are not a covenant-keeper, you're a covenant-thief.

As I said, I don't argue with OT Jews.

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

Didn't I already respond to this? How did you do that? Are you practicing witchcraft? Summoning me again like Saul summoned Samuel?
Be careful with that.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You've made past attempts to argue something else, and I responded.

But now, I don't try to fix people's lack of grammatical skills. Especially when it's on purpose.


Neither do I argue with what people want to think, in order to revise history.

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.





Enough to accept the words as written. I may not like them, nor even agree at times, but I certainly don't try to rewrite them into what I like and want to agree with.

You're not even honest with books, much less biblical.

I still don't argue with OT Jews.


The green and holy Olive tree of the Israel of God, that now Gentiles are grafted into, and Jews are grafted again into.


Both Jesus and Paul lost all credibility with Jews-only covenant makers.

That's why your carnal and spiritual forefathers had Jesus crucified, and tried to have Paul killed.


Only the unrepentant Jews-only covenant makers.

Them that repent are grafted in again to the olive tree of the risen God of Israel.

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.




Which is done away by slaying the Testator.

The risen Lord of Israel now has a covenant with any man that repents of sins for His sake.

He still has a land and natural priesthood promise to fulfill with Abraham and his natural seed. It's a promise, not a covenant.



As I said, I don't argue with revisionism.

Jesus prophesied they would all forsake Him, and they did.




As I said, I don't argue with OT Jews, that deny Jesus Christ was God the Word made flesh.

I've never read this 'Jesus bar Joseph' in the Bible. I've never even heard it before, until one of you Jews-only covenant makers intruded into a Christian site, while blaspheming the name of Jesus Christ as your Jews-only messiah.

But, if that's the way you talk among yourselves, that's fine by me. It just doesn't have anything to do with the NT risen God of Israel Jesus Christ.

Good.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The blood of the covenant. OT bulls and goats. NT Lamb of God.
Without the blood of the covenant, there is no covenant with God.
By separating Gentiles washed in the blood of the Lamb, from your Jews-only covenant, you make your covenant without the blood of the Lamb.
And since you Jews-only messiah seekers don't even have the blood of bulls and goats covenant anymore, then your whole covenant is bloodless.

There was a reason why God commanded and instructed Moses to build the earthly Tabernacle in like fashion to the heavenly Tabernacle and that was because before God even began creating heaven, earth, and man He was busy in the heavenly Tabernacle offering His Son on the altar of THAT Tabernacle so that He can bring His plan for the Redemption of His Elect and His kingdom (among other things) to reality in time (and space.)

Before God created anything a Lamb was slain (and this enabled Him to create what followed):

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev. 13:8.

And this allowed Him to have an Elect people the Lamb slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world to be saved/redeemed:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph. 1:4.

And this led to having Christ prepare a 'mansion' and a place to put this people:

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mt. 25:34.

And to do what He planned in time was to prove to be a bloody proposition:

50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
Lk 11:49–50.

And some of those things God did behind the curtain before creation He was to reveal to His people in due time:

35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
Mt. 13:35.

Remember, the secret things belong to the LORD but those things He's revealed (in His Word) belong to "us" (His elect, chosen people) Deut. 29:29.

But all this Redemption of God's foreordained people began somewhere and with someone:

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1 Peter 1:18–20.

So, all this "blood of goats and bulls" in time was only type and shadow of what occurred at the hand of God the Father upon His Son in Eternity, in which God was really busy in the heavenly Tabernacle preparing many things to bring to fruition His Plan of Redemption for His elect people, those with whom He has covenant and for whom His Son died - and He died for those IN COVENANT.
All Abraham did in offering Isaac upon a makeshift altar was only an echo of what God did in Eternity before He created heaven, earth, and man, except when God brought the "knife" up high ready to drop it upon His Son there was nobody in the heavenly Tabernacle to stay His hand. So, you best be sure God is extremely serious about any Covenants He makes on earth and with whom He makes those Covenants. It cost Him the 'life' of His Son for those IN COVENANT, and Gentiles have no covenant in which to rely. God saves Gentiles without a covenant and it's really in their best interest to not steal an actual covenant and inheritance God made and promised with and for His Elect people: The people that would come to be known as THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.
Talk about a "Jews-only" covenant, eh?
You are so very RIGHT about THAT!