No repentance for God is by our own will power alone

[Ghada]

I have also said God saves Gentiles who have no covenant with God without a covenant.

This piece of work will no doubt bear much fruitful correction. Here is a sample.

And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Salvation without covenant, is salvation without the blood of the covenant. Salvation by blood without covenant, is covenant with blood.

In order to separate Gentiles saved by the blood of the Lamb, from the covenant of Jesus Christ, the blood of the Lamb of God is separated from His own covenant.

We now have a Jews-only messiah, that separates the blood of the Lamb of God from his Jews-only covenant.

Is that not exactly what Jews-only messiahs have always come for? And yet we have one of them trying to name the name of Jesus Christ.

Not THAT is a false christ, if there ever was one. And there was one and many. But THAT one takes the cake.

Just think of it. IN order to exclude Gentiles from his covenant, he preaches for himself a bloodless covenant:

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Jews-only messiah seekers haven't changed a bit. They don't want covenant with Gentiles, nor the blood of Jesus Christ:

Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

It's impossible to have a covenant without Gentiles, and the Lamb's blood of the covenant. Not with the Father and the Son, that is. But there have been many Jews-only messiahs and covenants come and go with the wind.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Actually no, you haven't said this. Maybe you've beat around the bush about it, or you're simply coming up with something to cover yourself.

No, I've said it, and I'm not going to look for the place(s) I've posted it. But I've said it. I'm not a liar. I hate liars.

Either way, it's certainly another new charmer on your part. I will say at this time, you are the the maker of the most new stuff from one person, that I have ever seen. You get the blue ribbon for most original errors ever.

I get the ribbon for the most original thinking. You see, in accordance with my call and place in the body it is extremely important I say the same thing as God. So, that means I will be definitive where I need to and say "maybe" or "I'm not sure" and other less committed comments when I merely surmise or "think" something is biblical and true. And even when "I think" something is true it most likely is. I stopped regurgitating Gentile theological propaganda some time ago after the Lord gave me more correct use of my mind and thinking with regard to this "so-great salvation." I know some things I say go against 'mainline Gentile Christian theology and belief, but I'm confident I am right because I know who I am in the Lord, what my call and gifts are, and that God is still allowing more light given to individuals (like me) and to this generation in order to better understand His Word. It usually occurs with one individual to bring out something in Scripture and another believer adds to it or the Lord allows the next generation to bring more support and voilà! It becomes a major understanding (doctrine). Martin Luther was a prime example when he was the only one 'pushing' the doctrine that became "Justification." So, in this I know the ramifications of my beliefs and what I post. If everything that can be brought out in Scripture is already brought to light, then there's really no benefit of studying God's Word. Everything there is to know is already known and we might as well just read all the commentaries and theological studies already published in books and regurgitate what's in them.

Many times I find it necessary to show from the Bible the obvious, and it's good exercise to get back to the basics:
The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
The olive tree of the Lord is the house of Israel and Judah

See, now you're saying the same thing as God. Saying the opposite comes from the word "oppose" and it's not correct Christian behavior to do that for then that only shows that your Daddy is not the Spirit of Truth, but the Spirit of Error and we know who's big papa in that lifestyle.

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
The new covenant of Christ is with the house of Israel and Judah: the olive tree of the LORD.

Keep up the good work. But the Covenant is with God the Father and Christ ("Anointing" meaning the Spirit) is the benefit of the Covenant - along with other passages of Scripture and prophecy.

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Great. The New Covenant statements of Saul to Jewish Christian believers at Rome (Italy) as he applies passages from their Hebrew Scriptures to Gentile proselytes who have allied themselves with Israel - not becoming a Jew (because the Covenant is with Abraham and his seed and Gentiles are not his seed nor are they as Gentiles NOT of the natural Olive tree), but their association as "foreigner" and "stranger" identified precisely in the Pentateuch as Gentiles who've made vows to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to do certain things described in Covenant and NOT being of the Covenant but receiving the blessings of the Covenant because again Gentiles do not "come out of thee" (Abraham - Gen. 17) but these Gentiles ally themselves with Israel and become citizens of the commonwealth of Israel and under their protection with their sacred vows and sacrifices and promises to live their Pentateuch Code or Law. You see, they cannot be considered "Jew" because Gentiles do not come out of the tribe of Judah nor are they of any tribe or family of Jacob/Israel biologically and that's what is meant by NATURAL Olive tree as opposed to allies who do everything LIKE a tribal son of Jacob would and not NATURALLY a son of Jacob/Israel, but Saul calls them "WILD" and associates them with the NATURAL Olive tree. It's a good analogy. I understand it. DO YOU?

Gentiles graffed in and Jews graffed in again to the olive tree of God in His new covenant with the house of Israel and of Judah. The concise word of God is like analytical math: A=B=C=A

Sere, this is where you split off from the Truth of God's Word. Gentiles are NEVER said to be an Olive tree in the Hebrew Scriptures, and you are misunderstanding the identity of "WILD" Olive tree by saying they are hard-core, UNCIRCUMCISED, NON-COVENANT idol-worshiping Gentiles when they are NOT. Now, IF you can find a passage in the Hebrew Scriptures where it is said Gentiles are an Olive tree then I'd support you, BUT there is nowhere in the Hebrew Scriptures God calling Gentiles an Olive tree let alone a "wild" Olive tree. So, identifying uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles - even born-again Gentiles as part of the Abrahamic Covenant then you'd be in error and everything you attach to that understanding would be false. Even a lie. So, get your understanding in line with Scripture and say the same thing as God and I'll 'get your back.' The Abrahamic Covenant is with Abram the Hebrew and his seed and Gentiles are NOT Abrahams seed.

There is no salvation in Christ without His covenant. The circumcision of Christ is His covenant. There is no salvation of Christ without His covenant circumcision.

The New Covenant - just as is the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants - has no mention of a "circumcision of Christ" which is saying the same as "circumcision of the Holy Spirit" as that would be misrepresenting the Covenant and the truth. It'd be more like a lie and we know where liars come from and who's their daddy, right?
If you take a correct and true view of the Scripture, you'll find there is NO COVENANT in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets between God and Gentiles or the seed of Gentiles.
The Abrahamic Covenant is between God and Abram the Hebrew and his seed, a people later to be called the children of Jacob/Israel, Abraham's grandson.
The Mosaic Covenant is between God and the Hebrew also known as the children of Jacob/Israel.
The New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel (northern ten sons/tribes of Jacob) and the House of Judah (southern two son/tribes of Jacob.)
Gentiles are not mentioned or included in these covenants as documented in Scripture.

What the NT Christian Gentiles after the flesh don't have, that the Christian Jews after the flesh will have, is the land promise to Abraham and his natural seed after the Lord's return.

See that. You mix truth and lies. And a half-truth is a whole lie.
Go back to school and study this and come to the knowledge of the truth. When that happens, you'll say the same thing as God and when you do, I'll say "Amen!" ("let it be so.")
But you're not posting the truth. You're posting lies.

 

[jeremiah1five]

True, with the repented ones grafted into the olive tree of the house of Israel and of Judah.
Which unrepented sinners, whether Jew or Gentile, aren't grafted into at all, since they still have not repented of their own hard-core, uncircumcised hearts.
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Pertaining to the new covenant of the risen God of Israel, Christians are the Jews of God with circumcision of Christ.
Unrepented sinners, whether Jew or Greek after the flesh, are not the Jews of God. They still covet their old life and foreskin of a hardened heart of lust.
Once Jews only, always Jews only. Not Christians, just Jews only.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Back to the beast of numbers.
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
There are others, but once is enough to prove faith in God's words vs unbelief.
Believe me. There is no need to change anything you say. Like the old saying goes, "For some people, you just let them talk..."
You're welcome.
And thank you too. Just when I think you've exhausted your supply of new stuff, you keep surprising me.
Being saved by Jesus Christ, but not in the NT of Christ.
That is another band-spankin new hoot from you. It's duly noted, saved, and held for another day. Did I mention I've started a whole word file for your quotes and posts? Congratulations.
The promised new covenant of the risen God of Israel with the house of Israel and of Judah, is the green and holy olive tree of graffed in Gentiles and graffed in again Jews.
Jews-only messiahs having no part in God's olive tree covenant with Gentiles and Jews, has any part in the covenant and olive tree of Jesus Christ.
And I for one still don't want any part in your Jew-only christ's covenant, tree, nor salvation:
"I am going to sin later, tomorrow, and most likely the next day, but God sees me as holy, sinless, righteous."
No thanks. No way.

*SIGH*

I've already responded truth to your misunderstanding and I'm not going to repeat myself.

 

[jeremiah1five]

This piece of work will no doubt bear much fruitful correction. Here is a sample.
And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Salvation without covenant, is salvation without the blood of the covenant. Salvation by blood without covenant, is covenant with blood.
In order to separate Gentiles saved by the blood of the Lamb, from the covenant of Jesus Christ, the blood of the Lamb of God is separated from His own covenant.
We now have a Jews-only messiah, that separates the blood of the Lamb of God from his Jews-only covenant.
Is that not exactly what Jews-only messiahs have always come for? And yet we have one of them trying to name the name of Jesus Christ.
Not THAT is a false christ, if there ever was one. And there was one and many. But THAT one takes the cake.
Just think of it. IN order to exclude Gentiles from his covenant, he preaches for himself a bloodless covenant:
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Jews-only messiah seekers haven't changed a bit. They don't want covenant with Gentiles, nor the blood of Jesus Christ:
Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
It's impossible to have a covenant without Gentiles, and the Lamb's blood of the covenant. Not with the Father and the Son, that is. But there have been many Jews-only messiahs and covenants come and go with the wind.

No, it's not impossible because God is doing just that: saving Gentiles without a covenant.

Now, let's just cut to the chase and resolve my having to repeat myself over and over and over again to you.

SHOW ME IN THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES OF THE LAW, PSALMS, AND PROPHETS OF GOD MAKING A COVENANT WITH UNCIRCUMCISED GENTILES.

Go ahead. SHOW ME THE SCRIPTURE.

 

[brightfame52]

Scripture that confirms that Jesus Christ as Saviour gives His People repentance, by blessing them and turning them from their sins Acts 3:25-26

25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

And who does Paul say true Israel is? The nation was His treasured possession---His people. That was in the Mosaic covenant and if you really have an interest of learning I suggest you get some books by Reformed writers on covenants. Reformed theology is covenant theology.

Interested of learning? You suggest I get some books by Reformed writers? You are assuming quite a bit here without evidence but since it is not germane to the subject at hand, I will not go down this rabbit hole.

The Mosaic covenant is inside the covenant of redemption but it is not the covenant of redemption. The covenant with Abraham that all nations would be blessed through his Seed in inside the Mosaic covenant but it is not the Mosaic covenant. The Mosaic is a progression of the covenant of salvation through faith. It mirrors what happens with Jesus for the believer from the rescue from bondage in Egypt, and even long before that, and all the way through the OT. There were things humans had to learn about themselves, the hopeless and rebellious condition they were in, and most of all about God, that we could learn no other way. And there had to be a visible to us standard of perfect righteousness, and judgment, for Jesus to attain to in our stead. Otherwise we would know nothing. ANd have nothing to put our faith in.

But reformed theology assumes that everything is already predestined and yet what you have written suggests a process of education that includes choice. The difficulty that Calvin had was with the understanding of predestination. His understanding of it was influenced by his legal mind being trained as a lawyer.

We cannot look at predestination in a vacuum for we must also include foreknowledge and election in the mix, but I suppose that is a different thread than this one.

It does say that. What is assumed is that it doesn't.

Go ahead and point it out in the text so we can discuss it. I do not need to assume something is not there when it isn't.

Because they didn't want to. They didn't trust Him. What's your point? They were still in Adam. Not born again.

The point is straightforward. Because they didn't want to, they chose not to. Those who wanted to chose to. Since the bible gives repentance as a prerequisite to salvation. They chose to repent before they were saved. In choosing to repent they submitted to the power of God and became a part of the predestined of God.

Could be, but that is still God doing it, so what is your point again?

God brings a person to the point where they can consider all of the facts and then make a choice. Yes, it is God who makes them alive, and enlightens them but it is not God who makes their informed choice or overrides their freedom to choose. We see this clearly played out in Christ's interactions whether it is the Rich Young Ruler or the man at the pool of Salome.

You missed the entire point of that exchange. WHich was that works of the Law do not save. Jesus brought that point home to him when he asked his to give up all his riches because He knew the man's heart. He cared more about his wealth than he did the kingdom. There is nothing in that that so much as suggests that he was born spiritually, but just the opposite. And Jesus never asked him to repent so that too is read into the scripture.

You missed the point. Jesus loved the man and brought him clearly to the point of a decision and was saddened by the man's choice. But it was the man who made the final choice. It would be ludicrous for Jesus to love the man, convict the man of his sin, and show him the choice he needed to make but then deny him the effectual grace to transform his choice into what Jesus desired him to choose.

Then I guess we can throw out the passage where Jesus says He will lose none of those the Father gives Him. Even though Jesus purchased them with His blood.

Are you breaking your rule of to whom this was referring? It was referring to the disciples. Now having said that, God's foreknowledge completely knows who will decide for him and who will decide against him and why. Thus it could be said that those are the ones He came to save, but that is God's foreknowledge and not His manipulation of the mind.

God sees us as a cook might see figs. Some good and some bad, the cook has predestined the good figs for his figgy pudding. God offers the gospel to all people everywhere and the Holy Spirit rains down upon all. But many will not have it.

Ez 16 is a metaphor for God's relationship with Israel---I am well aware of that. Who is true Israel? What did I say about the covenant above? I was showing you something about God. I was showing you that Paul says the same thing about God bringing the believer to life. The first is the natural, the second is the spiritual, but it is always God who says "Live!" National Israel was not spiritual life.

All are made alive. In Christ, all are made alive but too many will not have it for they love darkness more than light and not because God chose to neglect them.

I had no idea I was going to quote that verse. It is not one I have thought about much or for a long time. But after I wrote that I thought, if that doesn't hit you like a bolt of lightning, nothing will. God is fierce, and mighty, and powerful and just. He is a protector with a double edged sword, full of compassion, fighting for and defending His people from their enemies, and always just, and faithful, and true. He is sitting by the fireside strumming His guitar singing, "Love, love, love, all we need is love."

The whole world needs love and God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. "Whoever" covers all people. It does not say, "that the elect who believe in him."

 

[Arial]

Interested of learning? You suggest I get some books by Reformed writers? You are assuming quite a bit here without evidence but since it is not germane to the subject at hand, I will not go down this rabbit hole.

But reformed theology assumes that everything is already predestined and yet what you have written suggests a process of education that includes choice. The difficulty that Calvin had was with the understanding of predestination. His understanding of it was influenced by his legal mind being trained as a lawyer.

We cannot look at predestination in a vacuum for we must also include foreknowledge and election in the mix, but I suppose that is a different thread than this one.

Go ahead and point it out in the text so we can discuss it. I do not need to assume something is not there when it isn't.

The point is straightforward. Because they didn't want to, they chose not to. Those who wanted to chose to. Since the bible gives repentance as a prerequisite to salvation. They chose to repent before they were saved. In choosing to repent they submitted to the power of God and became a part of the predestined of God.

God brings a person to the point where they can consider all of the facts and then make a choice. Yes, it is God who makes them alive, and enlightens them but it is not God who makes their informed choice or overrides their freedom to choose. We see this clearly played out in Christ's interactions whether it is the Rich Young Ruler or the man at the pool of Salome.

You missed the point. Jesus loved the man and brought him clearly to the point of a decision and was saddened by the man's choice. But it was the man who made the final choice. It would be ludicrous for Jesus to love the man, convict the man of his sin, and show him the choice he needed to make but then deny him the effectual grace to transform his choice into what Jesus desired him to choose.

Are you breaking your rule of to whom this was referring? It was referring to the disciples. Now having said that, God's foreknowledge completely knows who will decide for him and who will decide against him and why. Thus it could be said that those are the ones He came to save, but that is God's foreknowledge and not His manipulation of the mind.

God sees us as a cook might see figs. Some good and some bad, the cook has predestined the good figs for his figgy pudding. God offers the gospel to all people everywhere and the Holy Spirit rains down upon all. But many will not have it.

All are made alive. In Christ, all are made alive but too many will not have it for they love darkness more than light and not because God chose to neglect them.

The whole world needs love and God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. "Whoever" covers all people. It does not say, "that the elect who believe in him."

OK

 

[Mr GLee]

No, it's not impossible because God is doing just that: saving Gentiles without a covenant.

Now, let's just cut to the chase and resolve my having to repeat myself over and over and over again to you.

SHOW ME IN THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES OF THE LAW, PSALMS, AND PROPHETS OF GOD MAKING A COVENANT WITH UNCIRCUMCISED GENTILES.

Go ahead. SHOW ME THE SCRIPTURE.

I would offer. I think in all cases the proper tools are needed to rightly divide the word must first be applied The one below (2 Corinthians 4:18) seems to be rejected by those who are looking to the things seen the temporal dying mankind and not the invisible things the power of God. . the eternal things (faith)

Jew and Gentile alike having the same spirit of Christ' as it is written (sola scriptura)

No such thing as a Jewish spirit or gentile spirit .Whosoever has not the eternal Spirit of Christ does not belong to Him Romans 8:9

One God, the God of all spirit life. Our breath of new born again life

Look not to the things seen the temporal. But rather walk by faith as it is written (the understanding of our Holy Father in heaven )writen in the law and prophets, or the law and its testimony. . the prophets. sent with the gospel called apostles sent messengers .

2 Corinthians 4: 13-18 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

The prescription above must be applied when studying. Not what the eyes see the temporal. He who wrote the scriptures with his finger defines what a Jew is.

Not a outward Jew as a private interpretation. The prescription needed to rightly divide (interpret) must be applied "While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen the flesh of dying mankind are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal."

Romans 2:27-29King James Version And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter (death) and circumcision dost transgress the law?For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; (death ) whose praise is not of men (dying flesh) , but of God.

Same way. . . not all Israel is born again Israel and it aplies to the new name the Father named His bride in Acts Christian. a more befitting name to name the bride of all nations. Not all that say they are Christian are .

God covenants have nothing to do with the dying flesh of any nation. God is not respecter of the clay (persons) that he forms Christ in.

A person must look to the foundation of a matter, not beginning with Abraham

Abel our brother in the Lord the second born used to represent all born again, the second birth from above. Abel is first recorded apostle as a member of the bride of Christ who was martyred long before our Father created a new nation family the Father of all nations ( God the Father) Abraham flesh a token of the unseen eternal.

Mankind has taken the token circumcision and turned into a idol image. Like that of Rachel when she hid the family idols from her father.

Note. . (BLUE) my personal comment or opinion

Genesis 9:17And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, (a shadow of the eternal) which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.. . . . (All dying flesh not Jewish flesh alone).

God is not Jewish man as dying mankind.

Genesis 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, (not by and through thee)and thou shalt be a father of many nations.. . .(all the nations

Genesis 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh ( not of or through dying flesh of mankind) for an everlasting covenant. . . . .(not a temporal dying covenant)

In the end God looks upon the new born again heart . it is Him that can make it soft .

Job 23: 11 My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept, and not declined. Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:

 

[Ghada]

I would offer two kinds of Jews . One outwardly of the dying flesh (DNA) and the other born again inwardly

Romans 2:28-29King James Version2 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter (death); whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Two witnesses of the outward kind of Jew that thought DNA was the ticket

Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Man looks upon the outside. Eternal God sees into the heart of the matter. Knowing the hearts of all men he gives them food to do his will

This is the reason Jesus was most hated by Jews-only messiah seekers: The Son's reformation of the promised seed is of the Spirit and circumcision of the heart. Pertaining to the covenant of the everlasting kingdom of Christ, flesh profits nothing.

Paul also was equally hated by the same unbelieving Jews after the flesh, because he was most used by the Lord to do away with a covenant of God by flesh and blood and outward circumcision only.

Jews-only messiah seekers today are still looking for their own christ to enter into the everlasting kingdom by the flesh. Many have come and gone, and there will be one last great failed one before the return of the true Lord and Christ.

 

[Ghada]

16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.

This included Jews who were given to idolatry.

17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

Jews and devout persons disputed him and his version of Israel's Messiah who died/hanged on a cross and resurrected.

18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.

No doubt there were Jews in the audience who, as verse 16 states, were given over to idolatry.

19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said,
Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Idol-worshipers. Jews and Gentiles.

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter. 33 So Paul departed from among them. 34 Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
Acts 17:16–34.

You can deny God's words all you want. It matters nothing to me. An Athenian gentile was one of only two specifically named by God to be converted after Mars hill. The Lord does so to emphasize His fulfilled prophecy of Gentiles being brought into His new covenant.

Your efforts to have only Jews in your covenant, degrades into doing away with any flesh lineage difference between Jews and Gentiles. I have no doubt that any orthodox Jews-only messiah seekers would want to stone you for that.

And your Jews-only gospel excluding saved Gentiles from your covenant, makes your covenant without the Lamb's blood of God's covenant.

Which of course has been the same since Jesus Christ come in the flesh and rejected by Jews-only messiah seekers. To this day, your bring in just another tired old Jews-only covenant, rejecting the blood of the Lamb.

 

[Mr GLee]

But reformed theology assumes that everything is already predestined and yet what you have written suggests a process of education that includes choice. The difficulty that Calvin had was with the understanding of predestination. His understanding of it was influenced by his legal mind being trained as a lawyer.

We cannot look at predestination in a vacuum for we must also include foreknowledge and election in the mix, but I suppose that is a different thread than this one.

I would offer from the very beginning the confidence that comes the work of God labor of love working in us dying mankind works to both (both the key ) reveal the will of our Father, strengthened by his will. The father and Jesus the Son completed the promised three days and nights demonstration to the whole world of two working as one God . The food the disciples knew not of the meat needed to finish the work of two .

You could say our daily bread the living word or daily Manna . What is it ?

The Holy Father working in the Son of man, Jesus. It was done in delight of the two in mutual agreement .The Son of man revealing through his temporal body the unseen power of God.Our Holy Father .Temporarily give sight to the invisible eternal.

Some like Jonah refused to do the will , was thrown overboard, repented and vomited out . . . kicked against the pricks (the letter of the law death ) and when finished wanted to die He refused in false pride to believe God could give salvation to a nation that knows nothing about eternal God .Jonah a example of those those unbelievers in Mathew 7. Saying they were sent of God as true apostles but were not .He never knew them.

I believe he did not say they did not prophesy and as a result of new birth, hearing and believing the gospel. . it cast out lying spirits. Many false apostles, bringing false prophecy as oral traditions of dying mankind. God acknowledged he knew Jonah.

Mathew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Teaching us I believe , God is not served by human hands as a will in any way shape or form . .He moves men to do His will. He can move a unbeliever to preach the gospel as easy as one the does. Again Jesus did it with delight an example to Christians.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.1Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Christians receive the confidence of Christ from the beginning .In the previous chapter He promises as our confidence if he began the god teaching works he will keep on teaching us till our last day. Some like myself slower learners, some like murmuring Jonah, more rebellious .

Philippians 1King James Version1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ

It's an open book test as it is written

 

[Arial]

It should not matter one way or the other. And why have a judgment when all has been predestined and predetermined? What is there left to find out?

God isn't "finding out" things. What He is doing is gathering His flock from all over the world and bringing them to the Shepherd. He knows who they are, He knows their exact number, when they will be born, where they will be born, has His eye upon them every moment of their life, leads them to the Shepherd, births them anew in Christ. Christ's inheritance. He has known them before the creation of the world, and created them for that purpose. His glory, glory of the Son who lived and died to purchase them. Christ's inheritance. And when the last one has been given, then the return of the King to judge the world, to judge all His enemies and strike the final blow to satan and all who follow him. His glory, His power, His mighty hand and outstretched arm.

 

[Arial]

Interested of learning? You suggest I get some books by Reformed writers? You are assuming quite a bit here without evidence but since it is not germane to the subject at hand, I will not go down this rabbit hole.

Is what I said being deliberately distorted or did you not comprehend? I suggested studying Reformed writers on a particular subject. Covenant. And the reason that I did is because, as I said, Reformed is covenant theology. Covenant is the framework through which they arrive at doctrines---as opposed to the dispensationalist approach or the most common approach--any ole which-a-way. As in building a house, the condition of the framework determines the shape and strength of the house, so too do our interpretations of Scripture determine whether they are built on sand of rock. And since it is very obvious that God, who is infinite and eternal and self existent and completely other in being than the creation, builds relationship with this finite and corrupted being known as humanity, through covenant, and is Himself a covenantal being, the most plausible framework would be covenant. Covenant is Him reaching down to us. It is His way of reaching down to us and revealing Himself.

You can dismiss it without examination if you so desire. I find it a bit like conservative, God fearing parents trying to communicate to the children who have gone off to university and returned at Christmas break, having been enlightened, and discovered their parents are old fashioned and ignorant, holding to the old ways. They pay no attention, roll their eyes, try to also enlighten their poor ignorant parents, certain of their own wisdom and knowledge, and drive back to campus full of arguments against the old ways, and continue in not knowing what they do not know, thinking they know it all. And the parents shake their heads, knowing that they too were once that way and grew out of it. Praying that one day the children will grow up.

 

[Arial]

But reformed theology assumes that everything is already predestined and yet what you have written suggests a process of education that includes choice.

Does Reformed theology teach that all things are predestined or does it teach that those who the Father is giving to the Son are predestined to come to the Son in faith? To conflate into what I said that there is a process of learning and choices as a means of disputing what was said, into your view of God giving everyone an equal opportunity to be saved, is ludicrous. The subject of what I said was dealing with covenant and the purpose they serve and how one is inside of the other in time---our perspective. And the reason I said it was in hopes that you would understand that we need to make distinctions where there are distinctions. And find the meaning of scripture before we make applications of the scripture.

It had to do with man learning who God is and who man is in that relationship, and why only God can save us from being in Adam---a sinful being---and reconcile this condition by place us in Christ. Humanity must be taught these things because apart from that we know nothing of God and nothing of sin and nothing of need. Much of that is done through the Mosaic covenant with its Law. The Law is righteous and shows us what righteousness is, but it does not save us, it condemns us. Choice to obey the Law or not obey the Law was given in that covenant---which is why it is called a covenant of works. The fact that none could do that perfectly as required, being in Adam as we all are, is what shows us our need of someone to do it for us, and impart that to us---taking us out of Adamas to our spiritual condition.

And through it all, running as a bottomless river is the Seed, who will break the chains. Not offer to break them. NOt asking permission to break them, but breaking them and snatching the captive from the kingdom of darkness and bringing them into the kingdom of the Son. The force used, is against the chains, not the captive.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You can deny God's words all you want. It matters nothing to me. An Athenian gentile was one of only two specifically named by God to be converted after Mars hill. The Lord does so to emphasize His fulfilled prophecy of Gentiles being brought into His new covenant.

It doesn't say these two were Gentile, Gentile proselyte, or Jew. But I think we can discount that they were uncircumcised Gentiles since Saul went into the synagogues and spoke of a Jesus Messiah and the the only people even remotely drawn to the Jewish religion would be proselytes and Hellenized Jews. After half-dozen or more generations after return from Exile the Jews were a scattered, disorganized people without a Temple and who knows what great difficulties they had trying to organize again in a land occupied by Romans. This was the time after their return that Pharisees and Sadducees developed behind two schools of Hebrew beliefs and theology. Who were the two that began the schools? Shimmei and Hiillel? The same is in the Gentile fellowship: Calvinism and Arminianism. Then, you have Biblical Christianity which is what I am. Again, it doesn't say these two were uncircumcised Gentiles so it can go either way. But again, only proselytes and Hellenized Jews would have an ear towards anything Moses and Abraham.

34 Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
Acts 17:33–34.

Your efforts to have only Jews in your covenant, degrades into doing away with any flesh lineage difference between Jews and Gentiles. I have no doubt that any orthodox Jews-only messiah seekers would want to stone you for that.

Are you biblical? Or do you lean on your own understanding in the vanity of your own mind? Let's check that out. See here, this is what a covenant with God looks like. Notice intent and language of covenant:

Abrahamic Covenant. NO MENTION OF GENTILES. If there were they'd ALL be circumcised. ALL OF THEM.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Gen. 17:7.

The Mosaic Covenant is made with the Hebrews (children of Israel) that God delivered from Egypt thus keeping His Promises made with Abraham. And the children of Israel KNEW who was delivering them, The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, NOT Manny, Moe, and Jack. Here's another covenant God made with Israel and again notice intent and covenant language and with WHOM this covenant is made with. Again, notice there are NO GENTILES mentioned in this salvic covenant either:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
Jer. 31:31–33.

NO GENTILES. They are excluded. And Saul, the great theological apostle to Gentiles' credentials are suspect especially since in his writings he changes a word in an original prophecy (Isaiah) in one of his letters thus being dishonest with the Scriptures, and in another place contradicts himself where he says [paraphrasing] "that righteousness does not come from the Law" in one place and then says, "as of the righteousness which IS OF THE LAW he was blameless." Now I understand why certain church fathers in the 4th century when putting together the canon that would be the "New Testament" didn't want to add Romans or other letters written by him. So, by contradicting himself and changing an OT prophecy Saul lost some credibility with me and everything he says I do not take without checking to verify he truly is in accordance with the Lawe, Psalms, and Prophets.

But back to covenants. There is no mention of Gentiles in either the Abrahamic or New Covenant - nor the Mosaic Covenants. They are ALL Covenants God made with the Hebrew/Jewish people aka the children of ISRAEL and Gentiles are NOT of Israel nor do they come from out of Abraham's loins, so you're the one adding to the bible things that are not there.

And your Jews-only gospel excluding saved Gentiles from your covenant, makes your covenant without the Lamb's blood of God's covenant.

God has Covenant with Israel. God made NO COVENANT with Gentiles. I have asked and will ask again: SHOW ME IN THE HEBREW ASCRIPTURES GOD MAKING COVENANT WITH GENTILES.

Which of course has been the same since Jesus Christ come in the flesh and rejected by Jews-only messiah seekers. To this day, your bring in just another tired old Jews-only covenant, rejecting the blood of the Lamb.

Ah, yes, the ol' 'rejection argument' that Israel rejected their Messiah and so they are no longer in covenant with God.
Well, first, God has made an everlasting covenant with Abraham and his seed - children of Israel.
Second, Israel is recorded of going after many gods but the One True God and everytime after being spanked return to God.
Third, what happened in Jerusalem with regard to the crucifixion is not a cross-section of all Jews as the greater majority in Israeli cities and towns throughout the land as well as throughout the Gentile lands where the MAJORITY of Jews lived were not part of "Crucify! Crucify!" only the majority of the religious leaders (minus Nicodemus and Joseph) that called for Messiah's crucifixion.
Fourth, in accordance to Covenant God kept His promises and 3000 Jews were born again and saved and filled with the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. And that was only ONE DAY. Even if half of that were saved in succeeding days as Christ promised to build His Church by ADDING DAILY such as should be saved, by weeks end 11,500 Jews would be born again and filled with the Holy Spirit. In two weeks: 21,000. In one month: 84,000 Jews. Heck, were there even 84,000 Jews living in Jerusalem??
And of the 3000 Jews that were born again let's say half were from Gentile lands. These newly-minted Jewish Christians would return back to their homes and synagogues sharing their experiences and thousands more Jews would be saved thus establishing Jewish Christian fellowships in the synagogues and in their homes AND THIS WAS BEFORE ANY uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles even heard of a Jesus bar Joseph.

 

[Mr GLee]

This is the reason Jesus was most hated by Jews-only messiah seekers: The Son's reformation of the promised seed is of the Spirit and circumcision of the heart. Pertaining to the covenant of the everlasting kingdom of Christ, flesh profits nothing.

Paul also was equally hated by the same unbelieving Jews after the flesh, because he was most used by the Lord to do away with a covenant of God by flesh and blood and outward circumcision only.

Jews-only messiah seekers today are still looking for their own christ to enter into the everlasting kingdom by the flesh. Many have come and gone, and there will be one last great failed one before the return of the true Lord and Christ.

Amen, many received not the Holy Spirit of Reformation (1st century Hebrew 9) as if the time to remove the ceremonial shadows had not come. The old testament ceremonial laws were a sign to the whole world not to those who demonstrate pointing ahead to the suffering savior (1 Peter 1:11).

The promised three day and nights demonstration of the Holy Father to all the nations. The Father of the Christian nation the nation of many nations as families . Not a sign to themselves (we are the Church )

I would think it's invisible beyond the eyes of temporal dying mankind .The spiritual house the church is made up of many lively stones to represent all the nations .

Believer's do not seek as sign as shadows .They have the perfect book of prophecy the living abiding word of God.

The veil to represent the seal of circumcision of our "bloody husband Christ" was rent, the holy of holies was opened .There was no Jewish man as King of kings, Lord of lords there . Satan could no longer deceive all the nations of the world that God is a Jewish man . Jesus said of his own flesh profits for zero, nothing

Another great gospel parable simular to the one with Abraham and Isaac. It seems to define the ceremonial law of circumcision. Using Zipporah meaning the spirit of a dove. as a prophet, a female gentile priestess and her 1st born son Gerson meaning "a stranger there".

Ziporah compared to Abraham to represent the Holy Father of all nations. our Holy Father in heaven, She sufferer to circumcise her 8 day old son. Just as Abraham suffered with Isaac Similar gospel parables different purpose

Exodus4:23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him,(Moses) and sought to kill him.Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son(Gerson) , and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me. So he let him( Moses) go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

Twice to emphases twice represent double the honor Two the witness God has spoken

 

[Mr GLee]

God has Covenant with Israel. God made NO COVENANT with Gentiles. I have asked and will ask again: SHOW ME IN THE HEBREW ASCRIPTURES GOD MAKING COVENANT WITH GENTILES.

I would offer.

Sounds someone like Catholicism. We are the venerable canon assemblers . God is not a Hebrew man. It's the Holy Spirits scripture .Written with his finger as a eternal will .

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the (outward Jewish or Gentile ) flesh,(dying) but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man (Jew or Gentile) have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Look to the eternal, not seen (faith) not the dying historical things seen here .

The recipe must be "mixed" or no gospel rest .

Hebrew 4:1-2 Hebrews 4King James Version4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

 

[Arial]

The difficulty that Calvin had was with the understanding of predestination. His understanding of it was influenced by his legal mind being trained as a lawyer.

That is almost obnoxious, a person assuming that Calvin did not understand predestination because their idea of predestination is different than Calvin's. And also to present it as though they are debating with Calvin and not a person who is alive and well, and typing responses. Or that his legal training influenced his understanding. But even if it did, that would be a good place to start as a truly brilliant legal mind focused on ascertaining God's meaning in Scripture would be logical and consistent and work from a first premise, and untangle all the knots, follow all the trails etc. Very systematic and consistent in its approach, leaving nothing uncovered to later become a stumbling stone that demolishes the building and the argument. Also, and example of what is stated in your post ought to be put forward.

We cannot look at predestination in a vacuum for we must also include foreknowledge and election in the mix, but I suppose that is a different thread than this one.

I don't look at it in a vacuum. That would be you. I know what foreknowledge and election are and it is always in the mix for you can't have one without the other. Foreknowledge and election must be defined, and correctly defined. You define foreknowledge in a way that has God learning things by looking ahead to see what happens, iow learning things when He is omniscient which is the opposite of having to learn, and then you have God electing those persons and applying election to the wrong thing, making it not actual election at all other than those who believe do the electing. Both are counter to the self revealed God.

Go ahead and point it out in the text so we can discuss it. I do not need to assume something is not there when it isn't.

NOw you are asking me in effect to interpret vast portions of Scripture in order to support what you should already know just by looking at the history given in the Bible. This is exactly what Universalists do when they demand to be told where in the Bible does it say Jesus is God or any mention of the Trinity.

The point is straightforward. Because they didn't want to, they chose not to. Those who wanted to chose to. Since the bible gives repentance as a prerequisite to salvation. They chose to repent before they were saved. In choosing to repent they submitted to the power of God and became a part of the predestined of God.

Wow! Let me get the tweezers and the magnifying glass to untangle that conflation and unsupported assumptions that cannot be supported with the scriptures.

Two types of covenant. One with Law attached to it and the Law given. Do this, don't do that, blessings and cursings. The other which you conflate the first into---no law, no cursings, only blessings, Christ alone, faith alone. In the first, did the Law save any? Did repentance, of law breaking change a single heart? (For the heart is the issue.) Only if faith were attached to it as we see in David who even though he sinned, never stopped trusting God by going after other gods. Were they all still required to repent whether they repented or not? Yes. Are we? Yes.

Who are the "they" you refer to when you say "they chose to repent before they were saved"? If any repented it was because they had faith and that faith was placed in God. And what they repented of was acting like they didn't trust Him by disobeying.

If GOd has repentance as a prerequisite to salvation then you have salvation by works. If anything is required of us that comes from our own fallen selves, it is salvation by works. It would be the same things as @justbyfaith saying that he knows he is saved because he did what is required to be saved. That is not Christ alone, faith alone. We cannot and will not repent, or even think we have anything to repent of, unless we are reborn of God in Christ. Out of Adam, an enemy of God, and into Christ, perfect Righteousness, who paid our debt of treason against God, that became a part of every one of us in Eden through Adam. Don't conflate the covenants. They are two distinct TYPES of covenant.

 

[Arial]

God brings a person to the point where they can consider all of the facts and then make a choice. Yes, it is God who makes them alive, and enlightens them but it is not God who makes their informed choice or overrides their freedom to choose. We see this clearly played out in Christ's interactions whether it is the Rich Young Ruler or the man at the pool of Salome.

You have yet to give legitimate support for that that is not overlaying presuppositions onto the text. The two examples you give do not begin to do so and are not even related to the doctrine you pull out of them. I would address each in turn but I am not inclined to do so as it would once again fall on deaf ears.

You missed the point. Jesus loved the man and brought him clearly to the point of a decision and was saddened by the man's choice. But it was the man who made the final choice. It would be ludicrous for Jesus to love the man, convict the man of his sin, and show him the choice he needed to make but then deny him the effectual grace to transform his choice into what Jesus desired him to choose.

The only choice Jesus gave him was to follow his heart , which the rich ruler did, and Jesus deliberately exposed the man's heart to him---which btw was that he was counting on works to save him.

Are you breaking your rule of to whom this was referring? It was referring to the disciples. Now having said that, God's foreknowledge completely knows who will decide for him and who will decide against him and why. Thus it could be said that those are the ones He came to save, but that is God's foreknowledge and not His manipulation of the mind.

I am not breaking any rule. In John 6 Jesus begins His discussion on the bread of life to a crowd. In that discussion He says 35-37 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe, All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise him up on the last day." Then He tells them that whoever feeds on his flesh and drinks his blood abides in Him and He in them.

This of course was a very hard saying as Jews were forbidden the eating of human flesh and the drinking of any blood. This is what prompted His disciples to begin grumbling about it and Jesus saying to them. 63-65 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe. and who it was who would betray Him." And He said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." Does the parenthetical statement that refers to Jude and the fact that he says what he says to his disciples, cancel out what He said to the crowd? Do you also deny that the Bible says that He purchased those people who come to Him because it has been granted them by the Father, and who He will raise up at the last day, with His blood?

The Bible does not say, and neither does Reformed theology that God manipulates the mind. That is a straw man. It does however say that He knows all things and governs all things---not that He learns all things and acts in accordance with the choices of man in salvation--- and raises the spiritually dead to spiritual life. And spiritual life means actually believing not making a decision of whether one wants to believe or not. Such a construct is overlaid onto the scriptures. You probably know that, as you are an intelligent person, but are going to believe the overlay anyway.

God sees us as a cook might see figs. Some good and some bad, the cook has predestined the good figs for his figgy pudding.

Who makes the figs? Who makes the fig tree? And now instead of being precious in His sight, we are just pudding for Him to dine on?

God offers the gospel to all people everywhere and the Holy Spirit rains down upon all. But many will not have it.

Rethink the usage of all in the Scripture. The only time it is applied to all people without exception is when it states all are born in Adam, (and even then there is one exception for though Jesus was born of a woman (flesh) He was not born in Adam for God is His earthly Father). No nation or race, or type of person, be they rich or poor, ignorant or intelligent, has the gospel withheld. That in no way implies that all people without exception are equally disposed to choose whether or not they believe it. Every single one of us is by nature is disposed to not only not choose it, but not believe it and not even understand it. And if one believes it, it means they believe it, and therefore they do choose because it is now their nature to do so. But they only choose it because they believe. In your scenario they believe it but don't believe it at the same time.

But if it likened unto the Holy Spirit raining down upon all, (and pudding) how is it that some are rained on and others choose not to be rained on? I never saw literal rain like that. The only reason it ever rains anywhere is because God causes it to rain, and it falls exactly on what He directs it to fall on---no choice in the matter.

All are made alive. In Christ, all are made alive but too many will not have it for they love darkness more than light and not because God chose to neglect them.

I didn't know He was so powerless and made subject to man's will, even in His death and resurrection. But how on earth is someone made alive by God (alive being just what it sounds like, alive)and at the same time, still be dead by his own choice. Who is God?

The whole world needs love and God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. "Whoever" covers all people. It does not say, "that the elect who believe in him."

No one said we don't need love, and no one said God isn't love. It is your self determined definition of love that is one dimensional and attributes that to the Almighty. "Whoever" is a qualifier. Only those who believe in Him have everlasting life. Which pretty much excludes the idea of us choosing God as it does not have that qualfiier in the passage or anywhere else. It simply says, as do all similar passages, whoever believes. No the sentence does not say, "that the elect who believe in Him" anymore than it says, "Those who choose to believe Him," but scriptures do give us ample and repeated evidence that it is only the elect who do believe Him. Those He elected to give to Jesus iow.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I would offer.

Sounds someone like Catholicism. We are the venerable canon assemblers . God is not a Hebrew man. It's the Holy Spirits scripture .Written with his finger as a eternal will .

Jesus is Hebrew man.
But what matters is the Covenant God made for salvation with Abram the Hebrew and later with the children of Israel and the House of Israel. Let's not muddy the waters by inserting what WE THINK His Covenants should look like.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the (outward Jewish or Gentile ) flesh,(dying) but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man (Jew or Gentile) have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Saul is writing to Jewish Christians so it would be "any man" among Jews that he is referring.
And the Spirit of Christ was promised to Israel first IN the Mosaic Covenant and later THROUGH the New Covenant.

Look to the eternal, not seen (faith) not the dying historical things seen here .
The recipe must be "mixed" or no gospel rest .

Hebrew 4:1-2 Hebrews 4King James Version4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Why do you quote from Hebrews and completely MISS the document is written TO THE HEBREWS and thus they are the recipients of the writing and are also the context of what's being said.