Mystery of the most holy trinity!

[Runningman]

So if I say the words slowly to Him it is wrong, but if I speed these same words to Him then it is okay?

?

It's great to see where you false doctrine takes you.

I don't have any false doctrines.

 

[Fred]

I don't have any false doctrines.

See post 140.

 

[Runningman]

See post 140.

You should love Jesus. You can say it or sing it if you'd like fast or slow, or do it in your heart. The point is that it's sincere. God will recognize it, but it goes beyond just something in your heart it's also keeping Jesus' words. To be clear, his words aren't really his words, they're from God.

John 14
23Jesus replied, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24Whoever does not love Me does not keep My words. The word that you hear is not My own, but it is from the Father who sent Me.

 

[Fred]

You should love Jesus. You can say it or sing it if you'd like fast or slow, or do it in your heart.

Then that would be praying to Jesus which you are against.

Thanks for your contradiction.

 

[Runningman]

Then that would be praying to Jesus which you are against.

Thanks for your contradiction.

That's your opinion. I don't believe scripture says to pray to Jesus because it doesn't even say that and for two, again, Jesus taught them to pray to the Father. If you wish to pray to Jesus, I hope you walk away with the understand that the Bible doesn't explicitly say to do that. It's between you and your maker.

 

[Fred]

That's your opinion. I don't believe scripture says to pray to Jesus

I know what your heresy is.

But you already affirmed that we can say something to Jesus within our heart.

That is praying to Jesus.

 

[Runningman]

I know what your heresy is.

But you already affirmed that we can say something to Jesus within our heart.

That is praying to Jesus.

It appears you're the heretic. Loving someone in your heart doesn't make them God.

1 Peter 1
22Since you have purified your souls by obedience to the truth so that you have a genuine love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart.

 

[Fred]

It appears you're the heretic. Loving someone in your heart doesn't make them God.

Speaking silently to Jesus does.

God alone knows the hearts of all (1 Kings 8:39).


For Jesus, see 1 Corinthians 4:5 and Revelation 2:23.

Jesus is God.

 

[Runningman]

Speaking silently to Jesus does.

That's your opinion. What you actually lack are any clear directives or examples of praying to Jesus because you don't know that praying involves worship. You should only worship the Father because that's also who Jesus taught to worship.

 

[Fred]

What you actually lack are any clear directives or examples of praying to Jesus

See post 71.

 

[Runningman]

See post 71.

Acts 1:24-25
(24) And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen
(25) to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”

When the appellation "Lord" appears without reading "Lord Jesus" in Acts 1:24 it is important to keep in mind that whenever the following keys words from this prayer are found elsewhere in Scripture in association with the "Lord" then the "Lord" always refers to the Lord Jesus.

The passages in boldface are from the same author (Luke).

1. The "Lord" occurs along with the same Greek word for "show" (anadeiknymi) in Acts 1:24 - in reference to the Lord Jesus (Luke 10:1).

2. The "Lord" occurs along with the same Greek word for "chosen" (eklegomai) in Acts 1:24 - in reference to the Lord Jesus (Acts 1:2; cf. v. 6; Luke 6:13; cf. vv. 5, 46; John 6:70; cf. v. 68 and John 13:18; cf. vv. 13-14).

3. The "Lord" occurs along with the same Greek word for "ministry" (diakonia) in Acts 1:25 - in reference to the Lord Jesus (Acts 1:17; cf. v. 21; 20:24; 1 Corinthians 12:5; Ephesians 4:12; cf. Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 4:17; 1 Timothy 1:12).

4. The "Lord" occurs along the same Greek word for "apostleship" (apostolē) in Acts 1:25 - in reference to the Lord Jesus (Romans 1:5; cf. Romans 1:4; 1 Corinthians 9:2).


Let's see your evidence that this prayer was not to the Lord Jesus.

The Lord is not always the Lord Jesus. Jesus is Lord of the church, but the Lord of Jesus is God. Jesus said God is the Lord.

Matt 11
25At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Furthermore, when John and Peter prayed in Acts 4, they were not praying to the Lord Jesus. This is demonstrated by the fact that in this prayer they referred to Jesus as the servant of the Sovereign Lord they were praying to.

Acts 4
24When the believers heard this, they lifted up their voices to God with one accord. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “You made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them.

Jesus taught the disciples to only pray to the Father.

Matt 6
9So then, this is how you should pray:
‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be Your name.

Paul taught them to only pray to the Father:

Philippians 4
6Be anxious for nothing, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

 

[Runningman]

John 17:3 is still there saying the Father is the only true God.

 

[Fred]

The Lord is not always the Lord Jesus.

Strawman.

 

[Fred]

John 17:3 is still there saying the Father is the only true God.

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/the-only-true-god-john-17-3-the-only-master-jude-4.1339/

 

[Runningman]

Strawman.

That isn’t a strawman. I showed you examples of Jesus not being the Lord in context of the supreme Lord. Nevertheless, Acts 4 is still there plainly calling God the sovereign Lord and Jesus His servant.

I don’t know why you would say that is a strawman unless you believed that there is not a hierarchy in heaven with God being the God of Jesus and greater in power and authority.

 

[Runningman]

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/the-only-true-god-john-17-3-the-only-master-jude-4.1339/

And despite you twisting the scripture to try to exegete John 17:3 away, it’s still there saying the Father is the only true God. Rather than pitting scripture against itself to try to debunk scripture, find a way to harmonize it all. As of yet, I have been giving you the key to do so.

 

[Fred]

That isn’t a strawman. I showed you examples of Jesus not being the Lord in context of the supreme Lord.

It is a strawman.

4 words recorded in this prayer when used in association with the Lord elsewhere ALWAYS refers to the Lord Jesus.

You have not, because you cannot, refute this.

 

[Fred]

And despite you twisting the scripture

Your excuse to dodge the evidence.

You haven't gone there and answered the question I asked near the end of the post.
Your jesus can't help you so you run away instead.

Pathetic.



By the way, thanks for your admission that we can speak to Jesus within our hearts (= praying).

 

[Runningman]

It is a strawman.

4 words recorded in this prayer when used in association with the Lord elsewhere ALWAYS refers to the Lord Jesus.

You have not, because you cannot, refute this.

??

Your premise is that Acts 1:24 is about the Lord Jesus being prayed to. I showed you Acts 4:24 that directly refutes your premise that when the Lord is prayed to it's Jesus. That isn't a strawman.

 

[Runningman]

Your excuse to dodge the evidence.

You haven't gone there and answered the question I asked near the end of the post.
Your jesus can't help you so you run away instead.

Pathetic.



By the way, thanks for your admission that we can speak to Jesus within our hearts (= praying).

So in conclusion you can't produce a verse about that says to "pray" to Jesus in an explicit terms. Well, that's a game, set, match.

Now that the deity of Jesus has been debunked according to sola scripture, were there any other things you wanted to talk about?