Man's responsibility.

[Arial]

And I have covered it for you, and shown you clearly in scripture, that a person may be forgiven for a season and yet not be of the elect.

Did you just use that one scripture or did you compare what you claimed it meant with other truths and scriptures declaring those truths on the same subject? That is the question.

Act 10:43, To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission (forgiveness) of sins.

And I explained to you and showed you that one can believe/ give assent to the words they hear with their intellect and have it not ever reach their heart. It is with the mind that we understand and with heart that we are joined to Christ. It takes both----as does everything we learn as we grow in the knowledge of the word. Through the mind first, and into the heart. You are presenting a superficial salvation.

 

[justbyfaith]

I don't care what you believe about it. It is meaningless and does not create a fact.

We find within the Bible whether or not he ever believed in His heart by the fact that he did not endure to the end. And the Bible says all those who believe in the Christ of the Bible have eternal life and no one can take them out of His hands. Eternal life is what? Eternal. Not life or death or-----anything. Also you do not know what the rejecting was----was it a season of doubt that he endured and then came back? Is he dead? If he is not no one can say he did not endure to the end.

How do you know you will endure to the end?

If someone doesn't endure to the end in Calvinism, he was never saved in the first place.

Soil type #2 in the parable believed for a while (received remission of sins) and then fell away.

That means that for all practical purposes, he was saved.

I, at least, can know that if I believe, I am saved (forgiven).

That does not guarantee that I am of the elect...that I will endure to the end.

But I can know that I am saved in the present moment.

For I also believe in the "P" in TULIP...

not OSAS but POTS.

See 1 John 3:6 and 2:17 for my take on it.

 

[justbyfaith]

Did you just use that one scripture or did you compare what you claimed it meant with other truths and scriptures declaring those truths on the same subject? That is the question.

And I explained to you and showed you that one can believe/ give assent to the words they hear with their intellect and have it not ever reach their heart. It is with the mind that we understand and with heart that we are joined to Christ. It takes both----as does everything we learn as we grow in the knowledge of the word. Through the mind first, and into the heart. You are presenting a superficial salvation.

What is the Greek word for "believe" in both of these passages? Is it not the same word?

G4100

πιστεύω​

Transliteration
pisteuō (Key)
Pronunciation
pist-yoo'-o

Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
From πίστις (G4102)
Greek Inflections of πιστεύω [?]
mGNT

Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 6:174,849
KJV Translation Count — Total: 248x
The KJV translates Strong's G4100 in the following manner: believe (239x), commit unto (4x), commit to (one's) trust (1x), be committed unto (1x), be put in trust with (1x), be commit to one's trust (1x), believer (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
   1. of the thing believed
      1. to credit, have confidence
   2. in a moral or religious reference
      1. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
      2. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
      3. mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
2. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
   1. to be entrusted with a thing

 

[Arial]

What is the Greek word for "believe" in both of these passages? Is it not the same word?

G4100

πιστεύω​

Transliteration
pisteuō (Key)
Pronunciation
pist-yoo'-o

Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
From πίστις (G4102)
Greek Inflections of πιστεύω [?]
mGNT

Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 6:174,849
KJV Translation Count — Total: 248x
The KJV translates Strong's G4100 in the following manner: believe (239x), commit unto (4x), commit to (one's) trust (1x), be committed unto (1x), be put in trust with (1x), be commit to one's trust (1x), believer (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
   1. of the thing believed
      1. to credit, have confidence
   2. in a moral or religious reference
      1. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
      2. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
      3. mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
2. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
   1. to be entrusted with a thing

The meaning of the word believe is not what is being contested. It is your asserting that soil 2 had their sins forgiven and then fell away. When in fact the seed ---the word----fell on shallow soil and DID NOT TAKE ROOT deep enough to be anything real. It wasn't planted by the sower in the shallow soil, it fell into shallow soil. So if what you assert is true it should be no problem for you to prove that Jesus is saying a person can lose their salvation in that scripture. You would need to do it by finding all the passages where Jesus says you can lose your salvation.

I have shown you where He says we cannot. And let's apply a bit of logic to it also. Believing brings eternal life right? Is eternal life eternal or can it be removed, in which it was not eternal life. Was Jesus just kidding when He said "believe and you will have eternal life?"

 

[justbyfaith]

The meaning of the word believe is not what is being contested. It is your asserting that soil 2 had their sins forgiven and then fell away. When in fact the seed ---the word----fell on shallow soil and DID NOT TAKE ROOT deep enough to be anything real. It wasn't planted by the sower in the shallow soil, it fell into shallow soil. So if what you assert is true it should be no problem for you to prove that Jesus is saying a person can lose their salvation in that scripture. You would need to do it by finding all the passages where Jesus says you can lose your salvation.

I have shown you where He says we cannot. And let's apply a bit of logic to it also. Believing brings eternal life right? Is eternal life eternal or can it be removed, in which it was not eternal life. Was Jesus just kidding when He said "believe and you will have eternal life?"

A few passages are Hebrews 6:1-8 and Romans 11:20-22 and 1 Timothy 4:1-3.

Clearly, the person of the shallow soil believes for a while (therefore has remission of sins, Acts 10:43) and then falls away (Luke 8:13).

Yes, they are in shallow soil and therefore are not of the elect; however, they are a living plant.

And the shallow soil DID TAKE ROOT; it just did not take root deep enough to persevere.

 

[justbyfaith]

I don't care what you believe about it. It is meaningless and does not create a fact.

We find within the Bible whether or not he ever believed in His heart by the fact that he did not endure to the end. And the Bible says all those who believe in the Christ of the Bible have eternal life and no one can take them out of His hands. Eternal life is what? Eternal. Not life or death or-----anything. Also you do not know what the rejecting was----was it a season of doubt that he endured and then came back? Is he dead? If he is not no one can say he did not endure to the end.

How do you know you will endure to the end?

Actually, those who are defined as Jesus' sheep, hear His voice, and they follow Him, and He knows them (John 10:27).

That also means that they are not doers of iniquity (Matthew 7:23)

 

[justbyfaith]

Did you just use that one scripture or did you compare what you claimed it meant with other truths and scriptures declaring those truths on the same subject? That is the question.

To do that is a biblical hermeneutic.

1Co 2:13, Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[justbyfaith]

Is he dead?

yes.