Looking At T.U.L.I.P. By Calvin

[ChristB4us]

If anyone has a better site that accurately depicts T.U.L.I.P. better than this one, feel free to share. I do not think there are different variations of Calvin's T.U.L.I.P. but I may be wrong. As it is, there are different variations of Bible versions and anti-KJVOers say not all Bibles are saying the same thing and since there is no regard in keeping the meat of the scripture, I do see why it is possible that Calvin's T.U.L.I.P. may be misrepresented as well.

Five Point TULIP Calvinism Explained

From the link:

T - Stands for Total Depravity​

The belief in total depravity takes the view that sinfulness pervades all areas of life and human existence. Through the Fall of Man, humanity is stained by sin in every aspect: heart, emotions, will, mind, and body. This means people cannot independently choose God. They cannot save themselves. God must intervene to save people.

Calvinism insists that God must do all the work, from choosing those who will be saved to sanctifying them throughout their lives until they die and go to heaven. Calvinists cite numerous Scripture verses supporting humanity's fallen and sinful nature, such as Mark 7:21-23, Romans 6:20, and 1 Corinthians 2:14."

End of quote from link

I agree with this part but clarity in application is that although God must do all the work, in the life of the believer, they can hinder His work by sowing to the flesh in reaping corruption. just as heresy is a work of the flesh. which can also include by resorting to their own power in living the Christian life like keeping a commitment or a promise to follow Christ as if they can finish by the flesh and by their will, what was begun with the Spirit.

God will finish His work in those that build wood, stubble, and hay on that foundation that defiles the temple of God for why they will die per verses 16-17 in that day per verse 13, but their spirits are saved per verse 15 of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 albeit left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event for that day when they die. They will be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House for not departing from iniquity per 2 Timothy 2:19-21 before the Bridegroom had come, thus being damned as vessels of wood & earth to serve the King of kings on earth.

It is not a works salvation because when those are left behind for not being ready, they are still saved for why they are still in His House as God will finish His work even in them that were not ready when the Bridegroom comes.

 

[ChristB4us]

From the link in the OP:

U - Stands for Unconditional Election​

This Calvinist view says God chooses who will be saved. Because people are dead in their sins, they are unable to initiate a response to God. In eternity past God elected certain people to be saved. The saved people are called the Elect. God picks them based not on their personal character or merit, but out of his kindness and sovereign will. It also means that election for salvation is not based on God's foreknowledge of who would come to faith in the future.

Since some are chosen for salvation, others are not. Those not chosen are the damned, destined for an eternity in hell." End of Quote

This is where I disagree.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

That sure reads as God picks those whom He will draw unto the Son ( John 6:44 ) to reveal His son to them ( Matthew 11:25-27 ) by having foreknowledge of who would prefer their evil deeds for God to not choose them over choosing those who would want to come to the light to be reproved of their evil deeds.

I agree that our believing in Jesus Christ is the work of the Father & the Son ( Matthew 11:25-27 ) as it is the Father that draws them unto the Son.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

 

[CCShorts]

If anyone has a better site that accurately depicts T.U.L.I.P. better than this one, feel free to share. I do not think there are different variations of Calvin's T.U.L.I.P. but I may be wrong. As it is, there are different variations of Bible versions and anti-KJVOers say not all Bibles are saying the same thing and since there is no regard in keeping the meat of the scripture, I do see why it is possible that Calvin's T.U.L.I.P. may be misrepresented as well.

Five Point TULIP Calvinism Explained

From the link:

T - Stands for Total Depravity​

The belief in total depravity takes the view that sinfulness pervades all areas of life and human existence. Through the Fall of Man, humanity is stained by sin in every aspect: heart, emotions, will, mind, and body. This means people cannot independently choose God. They cannot save themselves. God must intervene to save people.

Calvinism insists that God must do all the work, from choosing those who will be saved to sanctifying them throughout their lives until they die and go to heaven. Calvinists cite numerous Scripture verses supporting humanity's fallen and sinful nature, such as Mark 7:21-23, Romans 6:20, and 1 Corinthians 2:14."

End of quote from link

I agree with this part but clarity in application is that although God must do all the work, in the life of the believer, they can hinder His work by sowing to the flesh in reaping corruption. just as heresy is a work of the flesh. which can also include by resorting to their own power in living the Christian life like keeping a commitment or a promise to follow Christ as if they can finish by the flesh and by their will, what was begun with the Spirit.

God will finish His work in those that build wood, stubble, and hay on that foundation that defiles the temple of God for why they will die per verses 16-17 in that day per verse 13, but their spirits are saved per verse 15 of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 albeit left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event for that day when they die. They will be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House for not departing from iniquity per 2 Timothy 2:19-21 before the Bridegroom had come, thus being damned as vessels of wood & earth to serve the King of kings on earth.

It is not a works salvation when those left behind for not being ready are still saved for why they are still in His House as God will finish His work even in them that were not ready when the Bridegroom comes.

The doctrine of Total Depravity, as expounded by John Calvin, is an important aspect of Reformed theology. To understand this doctrine, we can refer to Calvin's commentaries on relevant biblical passages and his theological writings.

Total Depravity is the concept that human beings, as a result of the Fall, are completely corrupted by sin and are incapable of seeking God or doing anything to contribute to their own salvation. It asserts that every aspect of human nature—mind, emotions, will, and desires—is tainted by sin.

Calvin's commentary on Romans 3:10-12 provides insight into his understanding of Total Depravity. In this passage, Calvin explains that "no one is righteous, no, not one" and that "no one seeks for God." According to him, these verses highlight the universal depravity of humanity, emphasizing that all people, without exception, are in a state of spiritual ruin and estrangement from God.

Calvin goes further in his commentary on Romans 8:7-8, where he describes the natural condition of the human mind as being hostile to God. He argues that the mind of the unregenerate person is governed by sinful inclinations and cannot submit to God's law. This inability is not merely a lack of knowledge or intellect but a moral inability—a corruption of the will and affections that renders human beings unable to genuinely desire or pursue God.

In his work "Institutes of the Christian Religion," Calvin further elaborates on the doctrine of Total Depravity. He explains that the sinful nature inherited from Adam has so pervasively affected human beings that they are spiritually dead and enslaved to sin. He emphasizes that this corruption extends to every aspect of human existence, including the mind, affections, and will, leaving no room for human merit or contribution to salvation.

Now, it is important to address the misrepresentation of Total Depravity as a natural faculty inability rather than a moral inability. Critics of this doctrine often argue that it implies humans lack the natural capacity or ability to respond to God's call or exercise their will in choosing Him.

However, this objection misunderstands Calvin's perspective. Calvin does not deny that human beings possess natural faculties such as reason, intellect, and will. Rather, he asserts that these faculties have been corrupted by sin, leading to a moral inability—a fundamental bent towards rebellion against God.

Total Depravity does not mean that humans are incapable of making decisions or responding to stimuli in their natural lives. It refers specifically to the spiritual realm, where humans are incapable of seeking God or choosing righteousness on their own. It recognizes that, without the grace of God and the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, human beings are unable to turn to God in genuine faith and repentance.

In summary, John Calvin's doctrine of Total Depravity asserts that humans, as a result of the Fall, are completely corrupted by sin and morally unable to seek God or contribute to their own salvation. It is crucial to understand that Total Depravity does not imply a lack of natural capacity or will but refers to the moral corruption of human faculties. By recognizing this distinction, we can have a more accurate understanding of Calvin's teachings on Total Depravity.

…

 

[ChristB4us]

From the Link in the OP

"L - Stands for Limited Atonement
Limited atonement is the view that Jesus Christ died only for the sins of the Elect, according to John Calvin. Support for this belief comes from verses that say Jesus died for "many," such as Matthew 20:28 and Hebrews 9:28. This point is one of the more controversial beliefs of Calvinism.

Those who teach "Four Point Calvinism" believe Christ died not for just the Elect but for the entire world. They cite these verses, among others: John 3:16, Acts 2:21,1 Timothy 2:3-4, and 1 John 2:2. End of quote from link

If I am understanding this correctly, this seems to indicate that those that teach Four Point Calvinism do not agree with this Limited atonement as taught by Calvin and so it looks like even here, not everyone that consider them to be Calvinist, agree with everything taught by Calvin.

At any rate, I believe Christ providing one time sacrifice for sins and thus the offer of the atonement is offered to all as that atoement has the ability to save all but it is only applied to those when they believe in Jesus Christ.

It is akin to a doctor offering an antidote for the poison to save his patient, but if the patient does not believe it and thus do not apply the antidote, they will die without it.

 

[ChristB4us]

The doctrine of Total Depravity, as expounded by John Calvin, is an important aspect of Reformed theology. To understand this doctrine, we can refer to Calvin's commentaries on relevant biblical passages and his theological writings.

Total Depravity is the concept that human beings, as a result of the Fall, are completely corrupted by sin and are incapable of seeking God or doing anything to contribute to their own salvation. It asserts that every aspect of human nature—mind, emotions, will, and desires—is tainted by sin.

Calvin's commentary on Romans 3:10-12 provides insight into his understanding of Total Depravity. In this passage, Calvin explains that "no one is righteous, no, not one" and that "no one seeks for God." According to him, these verses highlight the universal depravity of humanity, emphasizing that all people, without exception, are in a state of spiritual ruin and estrangement from God.

Calvin goes further in his commentary on Romans 8:7-8, where he describes the natural condition of the human mind as being hostile to God. He argues that the mind of the unregenerate person is governed by sinful inclinations and cannot submit to God's law. This inability is not merely a lack of knowledge or intellect but a moral inability—a corruption of the will and affections that renders human beings unable to genuinely desire or pursue God.

In his work "Institutes of the Christian Religion," Calvin further elaborates on the doctrine of Total Depravity. He explains that the sinful nature inherited from Adam has so pervasively affected human beings that they are spiritually dead and enslaved to sin. He emphasizes that this corruption extends to every aspect of human existence, including the mind, affections, and will, leaving no room for human merit or contribution to salvation.

Now, it is important to address the misrepresentation of Total Depravity as a natural faculty inability rather than a moral inability. Critics of this doctrine often argue that it implies humans lack the natural capacity or ability to respond to God's call or exercise their will in choosing Him.

However, this objection misunderstands Calvin's perspective. Calvin does not deny that human beings possess natural faculties such as reason, intellect, and will. Rather, he asserts that these faculties have been corrupted by sin, leading to a moral inability—a fundamental bent towards rebellion against God.

Total Depravity does not mean that humans are incapable of making decisions or responding to stimuli in their natural lives. It refers specifically to the spiritual realm, where humans are incapable of seeking God or choosing righteousness on their own. It recognizes that, without the grace of God and the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, human beings are unable to turn to God in genuine faith and repentance.

In summary, John Calvin's doctrine of Total Depravity asserts that humans, as a result of the Fall, are completely corrupted by sin and morally unable to seek God or contribute to their own salvation. It is crucial to understand that Total Depravity does not imply a lack of natural capacity or will but refers to the moral corruption of human faculties. By recognizing this distinction, we can have a more accurate understanding of Calvin's teachings on Total Depravity.

…

Thank you for replying.

I can agree with man's sinful nature as it drives them away from the Presence of the Holy God as it did for Adam & Even after the fall due to their "nakedness". It certain does require God to intervene for those Whom He would foreknew that want to be saved from their sins and eternal separation from God and all that is good.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Thus our believing in Him is a work of the Father.

1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

So I believe that we are incapable spiritually to come to the Lord for why the Father has to intervene as it cannot be from a freedom of will to choose Him when we are slaves to sin & rebellion, but rather by divine intervention in revealing His Son to us for how we are born of God.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[CCShorts]

From the link in the OP:

U - Stands for Unconditional Election​

This Calvinist view says God chooses who will be saved. Because people are dead in their sins, they are unable to initiate a response to God. In eternity past God elected certain people to be saved. The saved people are called the Elect. God picks them based not on their personal character or merit, but out of his kindness and sovereign will. It also means that election for salvation is not based on God's foreknowledge of who would come to faith in the future.

Since some are chosen for salvation, others are not. Those not chosen are the damned, destined for an eternity in hell." End of Quote

This is where I disagree.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

That sure reads as God picks those whom He will draw unto the Son ( John 6:44 ) to reveal His son to them ( Matthew 11:25-27 ) by having foreknowledge of who would prefer their evil deeds for God to not choose them over choosing those who would want to come to the light to be reproved of their evil deeds.

I agree that our believing in Jesus Christ is the work of the Father & the Son ( Matthew 11:25-27 ) as it is the Father that draws them unto the Son.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

To understand the doctrine of Unconditional Election, we can refer to Calvin's commentaries and theological writings to explore his perspective.

Unconditional Election asserts that God, out of His sovereign will and without any consideration of merit or foreseen faith, chooses certain individuals for salvation. This divine choice is not based on any inherent qualities or actions of the chosen individuals but is solely a result of God's grace and mercy.

Calvin's commentary on Ephesians 1:4-5 provides insight into his understanding of Unconditional Election. In this passage, Calvin emphasizes that God chose believers in Christ "before the foundation of the world." According to Calvin, this indicates that God's choice was made in eternity past, not in time and space. It signifies that God's election is not influenced by anything that occurs within the temporal realm but is rooted in His eternal purposes and divine foreknowledge of what he planned, purposed, and determined to occur.

Furthermore, in Calvin's commentary on Romans 9:11-13, he discusses the example of Jacob and Esau. He explains that God's choice of Jacob over Esau for His redemptive purposes was not based on any merit or foreseen actions of either individual. Calvin argues that this exemplifies Unconditional Election, as God's decision was made before either of them had done anything good or evil. It highlights the gratuitous nature of God's electing grace.

However, it is essential to address the misrepresentation of Calvin's understanding of Unconditional Election as God choosing people in time for no apparent reason. Critics often claim that this doctrine suggests a capricious or arbitrary selection of individuals without any meaningful purpose.

Contrary to this misrepresentation, Calvin's perspective, as revealed in his commentaries, is that God's election is part of His comprehensive plan and purpose for all things. Calvin consistently teaches that God determined the purpose for all things before anything was made. This includes His plan for salvation and the election of individuals for specific roles in displaying His grace and mercy.

Calvin's understanding of Unconditional Election is rooted in the broader framework of God's sovereignty and His ultimate purpose in creation. According to his commentaries, God's election is intimately tied to His redemptive plan and the manifestation of His glory. It is not an arbitrary or whimsical selection, but a purposeful and intentional act that ultimately brings glory to God and demonstrates His mercy and grace.

Therefore, Unconditional Election, according to Calvin's commentaries, is not about God randomly choosing people for no apparent reason. Rather, it is an expression of God's predetermined purpose and plan for all things, including the salvation of specific individuals. It is a manifestation of His sovereign grace and serves as a means to display His mercy and glory in the grand narrative of creation and redemption.

In conclusion, John Calvin's doctrine of Unconditional Election teaches that God, out of His sovereign will and without any consideration of merit, chooses certain individuals for salvation. This choice is not made in time but is rooted in God's eternal purposes. It is crucial to understand that Calvin's understanding of Unconditional Election does not imply a capricious or arbitrary selection. Rather, it highlights God's predetermined plan and purpose for all things, including the manifestation of His grace and mercy in the salvation of specific individuals.

…

 

[ChristB4us]

From the Link in the OP;

I - Stands for Irresistible Grace​

Irresistible grace is the belief that God brings his Elect to salvation through an internal call, which they are powerless to resist. The Holy Spirit supplies grace to them until they repent and are born again.

Calvinists back this doctrine with such verses as Romans 9:16, Philippians 2:12-13, and John 6:28-29. End of quote from Link
Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

None of those verses talks about the Holy Spirit supplying grace to them until they repent and are born again.

Those verses above ties in with the work of the Father below & the continuing work of the Son.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Thus our believing in Him is a work of the Father.

1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
That's the work of the Father above and now for the work of the Son below for Romans 9:16 & Philippians 2:12-13 & John 6:28-29

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:.... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Some believers believe the Holy Spirit convicts of sin for how sinners are saved but that is not the truth because the Holy Spirit only convicts of sin on those that do not believe which is the unforgivable sin that the Holy Spirit will convict of.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

So imagine the Great White Throne Judgment of unbelievers not having the Holy Ghost in them for not believing in Jesus Christ.

 

[ChristB4us]

To understand the doctrine of Unconditional Election, we can refer to Calvin's commentaries and theological writings to explore his perspective.

Unconditional Election asserts that God, out of His sovereign will and without any consideration of merit or foreseen faith, chooses certain individuals for salvation. This divine choice is not based on any inherent qualities or actions of the chosen individuals but is solely a result of God's grace and mercy.

Calvin's commentary on Ephesians 1:4-5 provides insight into his understanding of Unconditional Election. In this passage, Calvin emphasizes that God chose believers in Christ "before the foundation of the world." According to Calvin, this indicates that God's choice was made in eternity past, not in time and space. It signifies that God's election is not influenced by anything that occurs within the temporal realm but is rooted in His eternal purposes and divine foreknowledge of what he planned, purposed, and determined to occur.

Furthermore, in Calvin's commentary on Romans 9:11-13, he discusses the example of Jacob and Esau. He explains that God's choice of Jacob over Esau for His redemptive purposes was not based on any merit or foreseen actions of either individual. Calvin argues that this exemplifies Unconditional Election, as God's decision was made before either of them had done anything good or evil. It highlights the gratuitous nature of God's electing grace.

However, it is essential to address the misrepresentation of Calvin's understanding of Unconditional Election as God choosing people in time for no apparent reason. Critics often claim that this doctrine suggests a capricious or arbitrary selection of individuals without any meaningful purpose.

Contrary to this misrepresentation, Calvin's perspective, as revealed in his commentaries, is that God's election is part of His comprehensive plan and purpose for all things. Calvin consistently teaches that God determined the purpose for all things before anything was made. This includes His plan for salvation and the election of individuals for specific roles in displaying His grace and mercy.

Calvin's understanding of Unconditional Election is rooted in the broader framework of God's sovereignty and His ultimate purpose in creation. According to his commentaries, God's election is intimately tied to His redemptive plan and the manifestation of His glory. It is not an arbitrary or whimsical selection, but a purposeful and intentional act that ultimately brings glory to God and demonstrates His mercy and grace.

Therefore, Unconditional Election, according to Calvin's commentaries, is not about God randomly choosing people for no apparent reason. Rather, it is an expression of God's predetermined purpose and plan for all things, including the salvation of specific individuals. It is a manifestation of His sovereign grace and serves as a means to display His mercy and glory in the grand narrative of creation and redemption.

In conclusion, John Calvin's doctrine of Unconditional Election teaches that God, out of His sovereign will and without any consideration of merit, chooses certain individuals for salvation. This choice is not made in time but is rooted in God's eternal purposes. It is crucial to understand that Calvin's understanding of Unconditional Election does not imply a capricious or arbitrary selection. Rather, it highlights God's predetermined plan and purpose for all things, including the manifestation of His grace and mercy in the salvation of specific individuals.

…

Sometimes I believe with many words, one can find opposing statements taken out of context for why many are not sure what Calvin is saying.

I can see God's purpose as our lives are written in the book.

Psalm 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Psalm 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. 17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

So I am not sure how one applies that "this choice was not made in time" but since everything was written in the book before time was for any of us, even before we were born, I can apply that towards that end.

 

[ChristB4us]

From the link in the OP;

P - Stands for Perseverance of the Saints​

Calvinism teaches that the Elect cannot lose their salvation. Because salvation is the work of God the Father; Jesus Christ, the Savior; and the Holy Spirit, it cannot be thwarted. None whom God has called will be lost, they are eternally secure.

Technically, however, it is God who perseveres, not the saints themselves. Calvin's doctrine of the perseverance of the saints is in contrast to the theology of Lutheranism and the Roman Catholic Church, which hold that people can lose their salvation.

Calvinists support eternal security with verses such as John 10:27-28, Romans 8:1, 1 Corinthians 10:13, and Philippians 1:6.

The TULIP acronym arranges the five points of Calvinism logically and progressively, with each point contingent on the other. If humans are totally depraved, then they are unable to make an initial response to God. God must call people to salvation through unconditional election. God must also provide the way of salvation by the death of Jesus Christ. He makes salvation secure by the effectual call of the Holy Spirit. He keeps his saved ones secure so they will inherit the eternal life he has promised them. End of quote from link

I agree that the elect cannot lose their salvation BUT they can lose their first inheritance of being partakers of the firstfruit of the resurrection to be that vessel unto honor in His House which is the eternal glory to obtain with our salvation in Christ Jesus by faith in Jesus Christ in being our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to lay aside every weight & sin daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

That is what running the race is all about, by His grace & by His help, abiding in Him and His words as His disciples to bear fruit so that our joy may be full.

Some may see this as a works salvation, but not so, when those unrepentant saints & former believers left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event are still saved. The prodigal son may have given up his first inheritance for wild living, and can never get it back, but he is still son.

So there is necessity for the perseverance of the saints by placing their confidence, hope, trust, & faith in Jesus Christ for all things daily, including abiding in Him and being willing to go while praying we are not ensnared by the cares of this life that we would not want to leave with the Bridegroom.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 14:15-24 <------ Proof for why we should pray that we are not overcharged by the cares of this life to miss out on the King's Supper.

 

[CCShorts]

From the Link in the OP;

I - Stands for Irresistible Grace​

Irresistible grace is the belief that God brings his Elect to salvation through an internal call, which they are powerless to resist. The Holy Spirit supplies grace to them until they repent and are born again.

Calvinists back this doctrine with such verses as Romans 9:16, Philippians 2:12-13, and John 6:28-29. End of quote from Link
Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

None of those verses talks about the Holy Spirit supplying grace to them until they repent and are born again. Those verses above testifying to

Those verses above ties in with the work of the Father below & the continuing work of the Son.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Thus our believing in Him is a work of the Father.

1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
That's the work of the Father above and now for the work of the Son below for Romans 9:16 & Philippians 2:12-13 & John 6:28-29

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:.... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Some believers believe the Holy Spirit convicts of sin for how sinners are saved but that is not the truth because the Holy Spirit only convicts of sin on those that do not believe which is the unforgivable sin that the Holy Spirit will convict of.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

So imagine the Great White Throne Judgment of unbelievers not having the Holy Ghost in them for not believing in Jesus Christ.

The doctrine of Irresistible Grace, also known as Effectual Calling, is a crucial aspect of Reformed theology associated with John Calvin's teachings. To understand this doctrine, we can examine Calvin's commentaries and theological writings.

Irresistible Grace asserts that when God chooses to save an individual, His grace is efficacious and irresistible. It means that the Holy Spirit's work in regeneration is so powerful and transformative that it guarantees the individual's response of faith. This grace is not forced, but it irresistibly draws the chosen person to willingly embrace Christ.

Calvin's commentary on John 6:44 provides insight into his understanding of Irresistible Grace. In this passage, Jesus states, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." Calvin explains that the drawing referred to here is not a mere invitation, but an inward and effectual call of the Holy Spirit. This call is so powerful that it overcomes human resistance and inclines the heart towards faith.

Furthermore, in Calvin's commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:18, he addresses the notion that the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. He argues that through the work of the Holy Spirit, believers are given the spiritual discernment to recognize that the message of the cross is the power and wisdom of God. It is this spiritual understanding and perception that leads them to embrace Christ and find Him irresistibly precious.

However, it is important to address the misrepresentation of Calvin's understanding of Irresistible Grace as God forcing people against their will to accept Christ. Critics often claim that this doctrine implies a coercive or robotic conversion, where individuals have no choice in the matter.

Contrary to this misrepresentation, Calvin's perspective, as revealed in his commentaries, is that Irresistible Grace does not violate human willing. It does not involve God forcing or manipulating individuals against their desires. Rather, it is the gracious work of the Holy Spirit that grants spiritual discernment and illuminates the truth of Christ, making Him irresistibly precious to the chosen individual.

According to Calvin's commentaries, when the Holy Spirit works through Irresistible Grace, the individual's perception of Christ is transformed. They come to see Christ as the ultimate treasure, far surpassing anything this world has to offer. The grace of the preaching of Christ crucified becomes so compelling and irresistible that the chosen person willingly gives up everything to possess Him.

In this understanding, Irresistible Grace does not nullify or override human will but aligns it with the new desires and affections produced by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. It is the transformative power of God's grace that draws and captivates the heart, making the response of faith an irresistible and willing choice.

In conclusion, John Calvin's doctrine of Irresistible Grace teaches that when God chooses to save an individual, His grace is efficacious and draws them irresistibly to Christ. It is important to recognize that this grace does not force or coerce individuals against their will. Instead, through the work of the Holy Spirit, it grants them the spiritual discernment to perceive Christ as the power and wisdom of God. This transformation of perception makes Christ irresistibly precious, leading the chosen person to willingly embrace Him. Irresistible Grace does not negate willing but aligns it with the new desires and affections produced by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit.

…

 

[ChristB4us]

Calvin's commentary on John 6:44 provides insight into his understanding of Irresistible Grace. In this passage, Jesus states, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." Calvin explains that the drawing referred to here is not a mere invitation, but an inward and effectual call of the Holy Spirit. This call is so powerful that it overcomes human resistance and inclines the heart towards faith.

I believe that work is of the Father rather than the Holy Spirit since He is not in the sinner until they believe in Jesus Christ.

 

[ReverendRV]

If anyone has a better site that accurately depicts T.U.L.I.P. better than this one, feel free to share. I do not think there are different variations of Calvin's T.U.L.I.P. but I may be wrong. As it is, there are different variations of Bible versions and anti-KJVOers say not all Bibles are saying the same thing and since there is no regard in keeping the meat of the scripture, I do see why it is possible that Calvin's T.U.L.I.P. may be misrepresented as well.

Five Point TULIP Calvinism Explained

From the link:

T - Stands for Total Depravity​

The belief in total depravity takes the view that sinfulness pervades all areas of life and human existence. Through the Fall of Man, humanity is stained by sin in every aspect: heart, emotions, will, mind, and body. This means people cannot independently choose God. They cannot save themselves. God must intervene to save people.

Calvinism insists that God must do all the work, from choosing those who will be saved to sanctifying them throughout their lives until they die and go to heaven. Calvinists cite numerous Scripture verses supporting humanity's fallen and sinful nature, such as Mark 7:21-23, Romans 6:20, and 1 Corinthians 2:14."

End of quote from link

I agree with this part but clarity in application is that although God must do all the work, in the life of the believer, they can hinder His work by sowing to the flesh in reaping corruption. just as heresy is a work of the flesh. which can also include by resorting to their own power in living the Christian life like keeping a commitment or a promise to follow Christ as if they can finish by the flesh and by their will, what was begun with the Spirit.

God will finish His work in those that build wood, stubble, and hay on that foundation that defiles the temple of God for why they will die per verses 16-17 in that day per verse 13, but their spirits are saved per verse 15 of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 albeit left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event for that day when they die. They will be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House for not departing from iniquity per 2 Timothy 2:19-21 before the Bridegroom had come, thus being damned as vessels of wood & earth to serve the King of kings on earth.

It is not a works salvation when those left behind for not being ready are still saved for why they are still in His House as God will finish His work even in them that were not ready when the Bridegroom comes.

When first discussing Total Depravity, I distinguish it from Utter Depravity. Total Depravity says All the faculties of our Human Being are Fallen, to some percentage less than %100 Good. One person may be %99 good, another person is %75 good; etc. No one but God is %100 Good. This is all that Total Depravity means. Utter Depravity means we are as Bad as we can be; IE %100 Evil. Satan is Utterly Depraved; and perhaps we could say that when King Nebuchadnezzer became like a beast of the field; he too was Utterly Depraved...

Total Depravity involves more than just the acknowledgment that we're Depraved. It involves Total Inability to Discern the Spiritual things of God; things such as Special Revelation. For instance, A Leopard can't change it's spots, therefore those who are accustomed to doing Evil cannot do %100 Good...

These are the two sides of the Coin known as Total Depravity. Calvinists and Arminians agree to this. This Doctrine of Grace is probably the easiest point of Calvinism for any Christian to accept. After we agree about the presence of Depravity in our Being, and it's influence in our life; the next question is, Why are we Totally Unable to change our Spots?

 

[ChristB4us]

When first discussing Total Depravity, I distinguish it from Utter Depravity. Total Depravity says All the faculties of our Human Being are Fallen, to some percentage less than %100 Good. One person may be %99 good, another person is %75 good; etc. No one but God is %100 Good. This is all that Total Depravity means. Utter Depravity means we are as Bad as we can be; IE %100 Evil. Satan is Utterly Depraved; and perhaps we could say that when King Nebuchadnezzer became like a beast of the field; he too was Utterly Depraved...

Perhaps not since that punishment was for a time set by God and he regained his mind and was humbled before God as a result as he should be since he was claiming something God had done as if done by his merit.

Total Depravity involves more than just the acknowledgment that we're Depraved. It involves Total Inability to Discern the Spiritual things of God; things such as Special Revelation. For instance, A Leopard can't change it's spots, therefore those who are accustomed to doing Evil cannot do%100 Good...

These are the two sides of the Coin known as Total Depravity. Calvinists and Arminians agree to this. This Doctrine of Grace is probably the easiest point of Calvinism for any Christian to accept. After we agree about the presence of Depravity in our Being, and it's influence in our life; the next question is, Why are we Totally Unable to change our Spots?

If a believer was led to make a commitment to follow Christ, he or she may find the same result in not being able to change one's spots but when they realize they cannot change themselves by trying to keep that commitment religiously but surrender & rest in Him that He will finish His work in them to His glory, they may find that rest in Jesus Christ when they place their confidence in Him to finish His work & thus the race to His glory.

That is when a believer should stop talking about that man made yoke of bondage of that commitment to follow Christ & instead, follow Him by faith in Him as their Good Shepherd & Friend to help them to follow Him daily. That is why sinners will see His good work in us & praise God.

 

[ReverendRV]

Perhaps not since that punishment was for a time set by God and he regained his mind and was humbled before God as a result as he should be since he was claiming something God had done as if done by his merit.

If a believer was led to make a commitment to follow Christ, he or she may find the same result in not being able to change one's spots but when they realize they cannot change themselves by trying to keep that commitment religiously but surrender & rest in Him that He will finish His work in them to His glory, they may find that rest in Jesus Christ when they place their confidence in Him to finish His work & thus the race to His glory.

That is when a believer should stop talking about that man made yoke of bondage of that commitment to follow Christ & instead, follow Him by faith in Him as their Good Shepherd & Friend to help them to follow Him daily. That is why sinners will see His good work in us & praise God.

I responded, to see if you will let me drive your Car/Thread for a minute; do you want to go sight-seeing with me?

Do you agree that in the sense the Holy Spirit meant it after he Inspired it; it's True that, "There is no one who does Good, no, not One"?

 

[ChristB4us]

I responded, to see if you will let me drive your Car/Thread for a minute; do you want to go sight-seeing with me?

Do you agree that in the sense the Holy Spirit meant it after he Inspired it; it's True that, "There is no one who does Good, no, not One"?

This is true;

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Except Jesus Christ. Course, you knew that.

 

[ReverendRV]

This is true;

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Except Jesus Christ. Course, you knew that.

Amen. Oh look, let's pull over at this over look; and see what's next...

We are Totally Unable, because our Righteousnesses is as a filthy rag. A good way to describe this, is to say our Fallen Righteousness is like; Taking our father's Grease Rag, and polishing our Mother's dining room table with it. The Bible says that the Plowing of the Wicked is Sin; but feeding the nations is a good thing. The reason this good Deed is Sin, is because our Fallen righteousness is as a filthy rag...

Being unable to change our Spots of Sin, is like not being able to change out our filthy rag for a clean rag...

Since our Natural condition is an Inability to change rags, don't we also wash our babies with our father Adam's Grease Rag? In this sense, a good Deed is not always Clean...

Right?

 

[makesends]

If anyone has a better site that accurately depicts T.U.L.I.P. better than this one, feel free to share. I do not think there are different variations of Calvin's T.U.L.I.P. but I may be wrong. As it is, there are different variations of Bible versions and anti-KJVOers say not all Bibles are saying the same thing and since there is no regard in keeping the meat of the scripture, I do see why it is possible that Calvin's T.U.L.I.P. may be misrepresented as well.

Five Point TULIP Calvinism Explained

From the link:

T - Stands for Total Depravity​

The belief in total depravity takes the view that sinfulness pervades all areas of life and human existence. Through the Fall of Man, humanity is stained by sin in every aspect: heart, emotions, will, mind, and body. This means people cannot independently choose God. They cannot save themselves. God must intervene to save people.

Calvinism insists that God must do all the work, from choosing those who will be saved to sanctifying them throughout their lives until they die and go to heaven. Calvinists cite numerous Scripture verses supporting humanity's fallen and sinful nature, such as Mark 7:21-23, Romans 6:20, and 1 Corinthians 2:14."

End of quote from link

I agree with this part but clarity in application is that although God must do all the work, in the life of the believer, they can hinder His work by sowing to the flesh in reaping corruption. just as heresy is a work of the flesh. which can also include by resorting to their own power in living the Christian life like keeping a commitment or a promise to follow Christ as if they can finish by the flesh and by their will, what was begun with the Spirit.

God will finish His work in those that build wood, stubble, and hay on that foundation that defiles the temple of God for why they will die per verses 16-17 in that day per verse 13, but their spirits are saved per verse 15 of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 albeit left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event for that day when they die. They will be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House for not departing from iniquity per 2 Timothy 2:19-21 before the Bridegroom had come, thus being damned as vessels of wood & earth to serve the King of kings on earth.

It is not a works salvation because when those are left behind for not being ready, they are still saved for why they are still in His House as God will finish His work even in them that were not ready when the Bridegroom comes.

But what does it mean that they were not ready? By any reasonable definition I can come up with, it has to do with perfection; therefore, perfection by imputation/identification with Christ, or actual personal perfection. Actual personal perfection can never be good enough, thus, we are talking about the state of salvation and that, by election. If about salvation, then those who are not ready are NOT still saved.

 

[makesends]

From the link in the OP:

U - Stands for Unconditional Election​

This Calvinist view says God chooses who will be saved. Because people are dead in their sins, they are unable to initiate a response to God. In eternity past God elected certain people to be saved. The saved people are called the Elect. God picks them based not on their personal character or merit, but out of his kindness and sovereign will. It also means that election for salvation is not based on God's foreknowledge of who would come to faith in the future.

Since some are chosen for salvation, others are not. Those not chosen are the damned, destined for an eternity in hell." End of Quote

This is where I disagree.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

That sure reads as God picks those whom He will draw unto the Son ( John 6:44 ) to reveal His son to them ( Matthew 11:25-27 ) by having foreknowledge of who would prefer their evil deeds for God to not choose them over choosing those who would want to come to the light to be reproved of their evil deeds.

I agree that our believing in Jesus Christ is the work of the Father & the Son ( Matthew 11:25-27 ) as it is the Father that draws them unto the Son.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

There is also the meaning of "God's foreknowledge" to mention. The writer says "not based on foreknowledge", which I will grant if the term is only meant as something like "seeing the future". But the Biblical use of it, in complete agreement even with all good philosophical "attributes of God", invokes God's active intentions toward, and causation of, future facts and events. I find pretty much all valid commentaries on the principle of the Greek and Hebrew translated such ways as "God's foreknowledge" to say the same.

 

[ChristB4us]

The Bible says that the Plowing of the Wicked is Sin; but feeding the nations is a good thing. The reason this good Deed is Sin, is because our Fallen righteousness is as a filthy rag...

I can agree with what you are saying but whereas I can confirm what the Bible says about the plowing of the wicked is sin, I cannot find that bold portioned of your comment in scripture yet about the feeding the nations is a good thing.

Proverbs 21:4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.

Do you have a scriptural reference for the feeding of the nations is a good thing? Not sure why you commented on that anyway.

 

[ReverendRV]

I can agree with what you are saying but whereas I can confirm what the Bible says about the plowing of the wicked is sin, I cannot find that bold portioned of your comment in scripture yet about the feeding the nations is a good thing.

Proverbs 21:4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.

Do you have a scriptural reference for the feeding of the nations is a good thing? Not sure why you commented on that anyway.

No. When I said Feeding the Nations is a good thing, that was my opinion; sorry...

Let me pull us over at a Rest Stop...

So it seems to me that you agree with the Doctrine of Total Depravity as I have described it; right? As I said earlier, Total Depravity is probably the most widely accepted point of Calvinism...