Jesus said, this is the work of God, that you believe……

[Deleted member 6]

The above is complete nonsense. I think our friend is telling us we will all be condemned, i.e. we are all lost.

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[Synergy]

Can faith be an arbitrary act of the will, can a man ever believe or disbelieve because he chooses to do so?

It seems to be common to speak of beliefs as voluntary convictions. But isn’t faith always the involuntary response of the mind to the evidence which has been presented to it?

Why is the same gospel the power unto salvation for some, for others a savor of death unto death?
is it not because the unregenerate heart is morally evil and decidedly hostile to God and to Christ?
Listen to what Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews of His day.
yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. John 5:40.

Yet faith is the most important work which is demanded of men. Listen to what Jesus gave for an answer to the Jews when that asked, “what must we do, that we may do the works of God?”

Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” John 6:28-29.
So wouldn’t it make sense that God gives to His, what He requires of them?

He creates in them the capacity to believe in the moment of regeneration.

Thoughts?

As everything good does come from God, so does our ability to believe. That ability still needs to be exercised towards and through the effectual word of God before we are ever to be saved (Rom 10:8-18). There is no mention of regeneration up to that point. Afterwards, we are regenerated through the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

 

[Carbon]

As everything good does come from God, so does our ability to believe. That ability still needs to be exercised towards and through the effectual word of God before we are ever to be saved (Rom 10:8-18). There is no mention of regeneration up to that point. Afterwards, we are regenerated through the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

This is excellent, I enjoy the way you present this, very thoughtful, reasonable, and gently. I will get back to this shortly.

 

[Carbon]

As everything good does come from God, so does our ability to believe.

Indeed it does.
But then, as I am looking ahead in your post; why are you suggesting we must believe first before regeneration?

That ability still needs to be exercised towards and through the effectual word of God before we are ever to be saved (Rom 10:8-18).

Isn't it obvious that these already heard and know the gospel? And all that remains is belief?
So with the heart one believes and with the mouth, one confesses? And there is no distinction between Jews or Greeks, “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Isn't it explaining how salvation works? which is. After hearing and knowing the gospel, believing in the heart that Jesus is Lord, you call on Him? It does not matter if you are a Greek or a Jew, if you believe (which obviously comes first here) and confess (this belief-second) you are saved.

And God designed salvation from hearing the word, therefore we need evangelists. So is there something you are denying here?

There is no mention of regeneration up to that point.

There does not have to be a mention of regeneration in every passage of the bible. Do you have an interest in the finer points?

Afterwards, we are regenerated through the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

The gospel call does go out to all.

 

[Carbon]

There does not have to be a mention of regeneration in every passage of the bible. Do you have an interest in the finer points?

@Synergy

If you're interested in some of the finer points of salvation? We can look at a few other passages.


3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, Eph 2:8.

And many more from both the Old and New.

 

[Synergy]

@Synergy

If you're interested in some of the finer points of salvation? We can look at a few other passages.

3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3.

Yes, that's where Jesus was explaining to Nicodemus the soon coming outpouring of the Holy Spirit that the OT prophesied would happen - the beginning of every (both OT & NT) believer's regeneration.

Nicodemus should have been very well aware of those prophesies based not only on the writings of the OT but also based on what OT rituals signified and pointed to.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, Eph 2:8.

Yes, through faith/belief we are saved/regenerated by the Grace/gift of the Holy Spirit.

And many more from both the Old and New.

Keep them coming!

 

[civic]

Yes, that's where Jesus was explaining to Nicodemus the soon coming outpouring of the Holy Spirit that the OT prophesied would happen - the beginning of every (both OT & NT) believer's regeneration.

Nicodemus should have been very well aware of those prophesies based not only on the writings of the OT but also based on what OT rituals signified and pointed to.

Yes, through faith/belief we are saved/regenerated by the Grace/gift of the Holy Spirit.

Keep them coming!

Agreed ! There were numerous prophecies about the future and prophetic outpouring of Gods Spirit that would regenerate His people.

 

[Synergy]

Agreed ! There were numerous prophecies about the future and prophetic outpouring of Gods Spirit that would regenerate His people.

That fact clearly demonstrates that Faith preceded Regeneration by thousands of years in OT times.

 

[civic]

That fact clearly demonstrates that Faith preceded Regeneration by thousands of years in OT times.

Well you know my position on the topic