"It's All a Matter of Interpretation"

[Eleanor]

This takes us back to the OP...

"How do you handle the comeback of "It's All a Matter of Interpretation"?"

1) Prophecy is figurative and subject to more than one interpretation, the only rule being that such interpretation must be in agreement with
apostolic teaching, which is authoritative to the church.

2) Interpretation of all other Scripture must be in agreement with all NT apostolic didactics, they being understood in agreement with themselves.

 

[prism]

1) Prophecy is figurative and subject to more than one interpretation, the only rule being that such interpretation must be in agreement with
apostolic teaching, which is authoritative to the church.

2) Interpretation of all other Scripture must be in agreement with all NT apostolic didactics, they being understood in agreement with themselves.

When one mainly uses figurative language, even with prophecy, then all bets are off the table as one can twist and turn the Text any way they please. OT prophesy had a literal fulfillment, some yet to be fulfilled, some with double fulfillment.
When dealing in the area of figurative language, it is difficult to ascertain if it is Apostolic teaching or not, it's like trying to stick jello to a wall or like false prophecies that are not specific, only general e.g. 'there will be an earthquake next year'. Where? What date? How large? etc.

 

[Eleanor]

When one mainly uses figurative language, even with prophecy, then all bets are off the table as one can twist and turn the Text any way they please. OT prophesy had a literal fulfillment,

However, Da 2 is fulfilled and not literally, but figuratively.

some yet to be fulfilled, some with double fulfillment.
When dealing in the area of figurative language, it is difficult to ascertain if it is Apostolic teaching or not, it's like trying to stick jello to a wall or like false prophecies that are not specific, only general e.g. 'there will be an earthquake next year'. Where? What date? How large? etc.

 

[prism]

However, Da 2 is fulfilled and not literally, but figuratively.

Only figuratively if one believes all has been fulfilled, then one has to use figurative language to make it fit one's presuppositions.
For example, I believe this will be fulfilled literally BUT, in the future.

Daniel 2:34-35
As you watched, a stone was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay, and crushed them. [35] Then the iron, clay, bronze, silver, and gold were shattered and became like chaff on the threshing floor in summer. The wind carried them away, and not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that had struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

The prophecy itself may be figurative, but the fulfillment is literal. Otherwise, why would the Lord speak prophetically as there would be no way to firmly verify?

 

[Eleanor]

Only figuratively if one believes all has been fulfilled, then one has to use figurative language to make it fit one's presuppositions.
For example, I believe this will be fulfilled literally BUT, in the future.

Orthodox Christianity has for centuries regarded it as fulfilled.

Daniel's interpretation of the statue does not allow for a fulfillment in our future.

For the one statue is four kingdoms occurring successively in the time represented by the one statue.
If Nebuchadnezzar is the head of the one statue, then the other three kingdoms are likewise in the time frame of that statue.
Nebuchadnezzar was not a future king, but a current king, making the following three kingdoms in that same time frame.
Three kingdom actually followed Nebuchadnezzar in history, the fourth kingdom conquering the third kingdom,
those three kingdoms being Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome, with Rome conquering Greece in 63 BC.
Likewise, the eternal kingdom (Da 2:44) set up during the time of the four kingdoms of the statue is the kingdom of God set up at Jesus first coming during the Roman empire, the fourth kingdom of the statue.
The ten toes of the statute, in the legs-down part representing the Roman empire, became ten kingdoms when the Roman empire was divided.

2:34-35
As you watched, a stone was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay, and crushed them. [35] Then the iron, clay, bronze, silver, and gold were shattered and became like chaff on the threshing floor in summer. The wind carried them away, and not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that had struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.
The prophecy itself may be figurative, but the fulfillment is literal. Otherwise, why would the Lord speak prophetically as there would be no way to firmly verify?

All fuflillments are "literal;" i.e., actual.

The vision is a figurative riddle; i.e., a statue. Daniel gives the interpretation of the figurative riddle, which interpretation bears no resemblance whatsoever to a statue, for the prophecy was not about a literal statue, nor did Daniel interpret the prophetic riddle in terms of a statue, but in terms of kingdoms.

 

[Eleanor]

Orthodox Christianity has for centuries regarded it as fulfilled.

Daniel's interpretation of the statue does not allow for a fulfillment in our future.

For the one statue is four kingdoms occurring successively in the time represented by the one statue.
If Nebuchadnezzar is the head of the one statue, then the other three kingdoms are likewise in the time frame of that statue.
Nebuchadnezzar was not a future king, but a current king, making the following three kingdoms in that same time frame.
Three kingdom actually followed Nebuchadnezzar in history, the fourth kingdom conquering the third kingdom.
The three kingdoms actually following Nebuchadnezzar in history were Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome, with Rome conquering Greece in 63 BC.
Likewise, the eternal kingdom (Da 2:44) set up during the time of the four kingdoms of the statue is the kingdom of God set up at Jesus first coming during the Roman empire, the fourth kingdom of the statue.
The ten toes of the statute, in the legs-down part representing the Roman empire, became ten kingdoms when the Roman empire was divided.

The vision is a figurative riddle; i.e., a statue. Daniel gives the interpretation of the figurative riddle, which interpretation bears no resemblance whatsoever to a statue, for the prophecy was not about a literal statue, nor did Daniel did interpret the prophetic riddle in terms of a statue, but in terms of kingdoms.

All fulfillments are "literal," i.e., actual.

 

[prism]

Orthodox Christianity has for centuries regarded it as fulfilled.

Daniel's interpretation of the statue does not allow for a fulfillment in our future.

For the one statue is four kingdoms occurring successively in the time represented by the one statue.
If Nebuchadnezzar is the head of the one statue, then the other three kingdoms are likewise in the time frame of that statue.
Nebuchadnezzar was not a future king, but a current king, making the following three kingdoms in that same time frame.
Three kingdom actually followed Nebuchadnezzar in history, the fourth kingdom conquering the third kingdom,
those three kingdoms being Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome, with Rome conquering Greece in 63 BC.
Likewise, the eternal kingdom (Da 2:44) set up during the time of the four kingdoms of the statue is the kingdom of God set up at Jesus first coming during the Roman empire, the fourth kingdom of the statue.
The ten toes of the statute, in the legs-down part representing the Roman empire, became ten kingdoms when the Roman empire was divided.

There is much I disagree with here.
Thanks for your 'interpretations'.

 

[Eleanor]

Orthodox Christianity has for centuries regarded it as fulfilled.

Daniel's interpretation of the statue does not allow for a fulfillment in our future.

There is much I disagree with here. Thanks for your 'interpretations'.

You're welcome.

But you didn't address my argument.

 

[prism]

But you didn't address my argument.

I did. I said there's much I disagree with.

 

[Marilyn C]

How do you handle the comeback of "It's All a Matter of Interpretation"?

If it was then all God`s word is up for grabs for whatever someone decides.

The truth is that Gods word interprets itself and gives us His foundational Principles.

1. Explicit Principle.

By which any statement is to be taken at its literal meaning, unless otherwise clearly indicated. God says what He means and means precisely what He says.

The message of the Bible was inspirationally revealed in a clear and unmistakable manner, to be understood by ordinary people. Similarly, then with the principle of interpreting it. All historical portions are taken quite literally. The doctrinal, the moral and the spiritual content are so interpreted. Manifestly, then, by every logical and spiritual norm prophetical scriptures must be construed by the same pattern, applying common sense literal principles.

Figures of speech are employed on occasions to illustrate and amplify spiritual truth, however, these are always readily recognisable as such.

2. Ethnic Principle.

By which the Word of God is rightly divided in relation to the three classes which it treats.

`The Jew, the Gentile and the Church of God. ` (1 Cor. 10: 32)

Governing law - To whom does the prophecy concern, and to whom said.

The Bible quite clearly presents an obvious and unmistakable sequence which unfolds naturally and logically as an outworking of the divine purpose for the above mentioned three classes regconised by God: -

a) There is a time-slot for events that relate to the Church culminating in the glorious appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ. An event which the Bible refers to as the `Day of Christ. `

b) There is a time for world-events, affecting the nations, leading up to the supreme dictator who will gather all people to the great battle Armageddon. There is a time for tribulation and judgment, upon the whole unbelieving world; but primarily upon Israel, to prepare them for the promised period of blessing and prosperity during the millennial reign of Christ. Scripture refers to this period as the `Day of the Lord. `

c) Finally, with the ultimate restitution of all things, Time will become absorbed into the Eternal Purpose in the `Day of God. `

 

[prism]

If it was then all God`s word is up for grabs for whatever someone decides.

The truth is that Gods word interprets itself and gives us His foundational Principles.

1. Explicit Principle.

By which any statement is to be taken at its literal meaning, unless otherwise clearly indicated. God says what He means and means precisely what He says.

The message of the Bible was inspirationally revealed in a clear and unmistakable manner, to be understood by ordinary people. Similarly, then with the principle of interpreting it. All historical portions are taken quite literally. The doctrinal, the moral and the spiritual content are so interpreted. Manifestly, then, by every logical and spiritual norm prophetical scriptures must be construed by the same pattern, applying common sense literal principles.

Figures of speech are employed on occasions to illustrate and amplify spiritual truth, however, these are always readily recognisable as such.

2. Ethnic Principle.

By which the Word of God is rightly divided in relation to the three classes which it treats.

`The Jew, the Gentile and the Church of God. ` (1 Cor. 10: 32)

Governing law - To whom does the prophecy concern, and to whom said.

The Bible quite clearly presents an obvious and unmistakable sequence which unfolds naturally and logically as an outworking of the divine purpose for the above mentioned three classes regconised by God: -

a) There is a time-slot for events that relate to the Church culminating in the glorious appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ. An event which the Bible refers to as the `Day of Christ. `

b) There is a time for world-events, affecting the nations, leading up to the supreme dictator who will gather all people to the great battle Armageddon. There is a time for tribulation and judgment, upon the whole unbelieving world; but primarily upon Israel, to prepare them for the promised period of blessing and prosperity during the millennial reign of Christ. Scripture refers to this period as the `Day of the Lord. `

c) Finally, with the ultimate restitution of all things, Time will become absorbed into the Eternal Purpose in the `Day of God. `

Agreed. and thanks.
"The truth is that Gods word interprets itself and gives us His foundational Principles."

Only problem is that usually the comment, "It's All a Matter of Interpretation", comes from the non believer as a way to brush off the Truth.

 

[Eleanor]

I did. I said there's much I disagree with.

And that would be avoiding it, rather than addressing it

 

[prism]

And that would be avoiding it, rather than addressing it

In keeping with the topic, ..'that's your interpretation'.

 

[Eleanor]

In keeping with the topic, ..'that's your interpretation'.

Which you must Biblically demonstrate is incorrect if that assertion is to have any merit.

 

[prism]

Which you must Biblically demonstrate is incorrect if that assertion is to have any merit.

Why?

 

[Eleanor]

Why?

Stated in the post.

 

[donadams]

Did not Christ found an apostolic church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation?
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 bind on earth
Matt 18:17 hear the church
Matt 28:19 all nations
Acts 1:8 witnesses
Lk 1:4, Acts 8:31 teach me

Thanks

 

[prism]

Did not Christ found an apostolic church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation?
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 bind on earth
Matt 18:17 hear the church
Matt 28:19 all nations
Acts 1:8 witnesses
Lk 1:4, Acts 8:31 teach me

Thanks

Are you hinting that one man (successor of Peter) would have the authoritative interpretation rather than the principles of hermeneutics, including the fact that Scripture interprets Scripture through the indwelling Holy Spirit?

 

[donadams]

Are you hinting that one man (successor of Peter) would have the authoritative interpretation rather than the principles of hermeneutics, including the fact that Scripture interprets Scripture through the indwelling Holy Spirit?

Where does scripture say this theory is true?

No not one man, one church!

Are you forbidden from hearing men? Isa 53:1 who has believed our report?
1 Jn 4:6 hear us! “The apostles” the apostolic church founded by Christ, lead into all truth by the guarantee of the spirit Jn 16:13

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Where does scripture say this theory is true?

No not one man, one church!

Are you forbidden from hearing men? Isa 53:1 who has believed our report?
1 Jn 4:6 hear us! “The apostles” the apostolic church founded by Christ, lead into all truth by the guarantee of the spirit Jn 16:13

SO what connection have you fooled yourself into believing exists between the "Apostolic CHURCH founded by Christ" and the "Roman Catholic religious system"??