Issues with a doctrine(s) of grace?

[civic]

Draw in what way? Salvation? Judgement?

I'm sure you understand the word "drawing" often has a meaning of being "dragged".

The same way it’s used in John 6.

 

[David1701]

Is there any of the doctrines of grace (TULIP) that you did at one time, or maybe still do have issues with?
One you just can’t settle with or wish there was a way around it.
Have you tried and tested it in hopes to prove it wrong?
This question(s) is mainly for Calvinists but of course Arminians are welcome to answer and discuss as well.

Only when I was newly saved and, being surrounded by freewillers, thought that they must be right, since they were all more experienced than I. Of course, I hadn't even heard of T.U.L.I.P., at the time.

 

[Ritajanice]

Only when I was newly saved and, being surrounded by freewillers, thought that they must be right, since they were all more experienced than I. Of course, I hadn't even heard of T.U.L.I.P., at the time.

I was on another forum, where most were freewillers as well....they accused me of not being Born Again and that it was all in my emotions.......the battle went on for weeks....oh boy did they try and get me to change my testimony on how I was birthed in the Spirit.....I guess it was all down to how strongly they believed in freewill.

Personally I can’t get my head around this free will business...probably never will, because of the way I became Born Again...by God’s supernatural power, through the Holy Spirit.

 

[CrowCross]

Why on earth would anyone believe that God drawing us to Jesus...to some means dragging...seriously, I can’t get my head around that one.

The same word is used in Acts 16:19.

When the girl’s owners saw that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them before the authorities in the marketplace.

 

[Ritajanice]

The same word is used in Acts 16:19.

When the girl’s owners saw that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them before the authorities in the marketplace.

That’s got nothing to do with God drawing us to Jesus? Imo/ belief.

 

[CrowCross]

The same way it’s used in John 6.

I just replied with the following ...

The same word is used in Acts 16:19.

When the girl’s owners saw that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them before the authorities in the marketplace.

 

[Carbon]

If one or several of your daughters don't "accept" Christ as their Lord and Savior....will you then blame yourself for not presenting the message of salvation to them adequately?

That has been well thought over. Though I feel I should be blamed, probably not.

 

[Carbon]

@Carbon ....6 daughters!....you’re outnumbered then,

Indeed

 

[Carbon]

Why on earth would anyone believe that God drawing us to Jesus...to some means dragging...seriously, I can’t get my head around that one.

​

John 6:44 ESV / 81 helpful votes​

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

John 12:32 ESV / 51 helpful votes​

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

John 6:37 ESV / 37 helpful votes​

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

I think that happens after regeneration

 

[CrowCross]

That’s got nothing to do with God drawing us to Jesus? Imo/ belief.

My post 4 presents God as dragging us from the lake bottom.....I don't really believe in the "wooing" here kitty, kitty concept where the Father entices people.

 

[CrowCross]

I think that happens after regeneration

I think it happens at the same time.

 

[Ritajanice]

My post 4 presents God as dragging us from the lake bottom.....I don't really believe in the "wooing" here kitty, kitty concept where the Father entices people.

That’s your understanding of it...here kitty, kitty,

 

[CrowCross]

That has been well thought over. Though I feel I should be blamed, probably not.

I don't think ones salvation is based upon what you do or don't do.

If you preach the Gospel and God uses that to reach someone...then so be it.

I've heard people say...."if I'd only presented the gospel this way or that way they would have been saved".

 

[Carbon]

That has been well thought over. Though I feel I should be blamed, probably not.

But thinking like this brings me to the throne of grace, and there I see biblical answers. God is sovereign, He chose an elect before the foundation of the world, He will never lose or forsake one. It’s my responsibility as a believer to share Christ. Then leave it in God’s capable hands.

 

[CrowCross]

That’s your understanding of it...here kitty, kitty,

Pretty much...I don't think God dress you up in a bathing suit, puts a mask, snorkel and flippers on you...leads you to the edge of the pool and says...it's up to you to jump in.
Personally I think God may dress you up...then pushes you into the pool. Whether you want to jump into the pool or not.

 

[Carbon]

I've heard people say...."if I'd only presented the gospel this way or that way they would have been saved".

Yep. I’ve heard that also. Humanism at its finest

 

[Ritajanice]

Pretty much...I don't think God dress you up in a bathing suit, puts a mask, snorkel and flippers on you...leads you to the edge of the pool and says...it's up to you to jump in.
Personally I think God may dress you up...then pushes you into the pool. Whether you want to jump into the pool or not.

Fair enough..

 

[CrowCross]

Yep. I’ve heard that also. Humanism at its finest

I believe God uses us to preach the gospel, provides us with the "Word" giving us the "faith"...but also opens our hearts like He did with Lydia.

Acts 16:14 "One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul."

 

[Carbon]

I believe God uses us to preach the gospel, provides us with the "Word" giving us the "faith"...but also opens our hearts like He did with Lydia.

Acts 16:14 "One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul."

Amen!

 

[Arial]

That has been well thought over. Though I feel I should be blamed, probably not.

Well----if a believer is elect of God they will hear and believe the gospel. And sometimes children listen to other people more than they are willing to listen to their parents. As a father, you do what father's do. You teach them in the ways of the Lord. Bring them to under the headship of Christ. That is our part----responsibility.

Knowing that will not always alleviate our feelings of blame. But that is just what people do when they grieve.