Is the Spirit in everything?

[Ritajanice]

The Holy Spirit does not indwell a sinner...there is no sin in the Holy Spirit...we must be birthed in the Spirit, to be in the righteousness of Christ....a Born Again has been set free from sin.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

The Hebrews text.

I believe I responded to this.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

The Holy Spirit does not indwell a sinner...there is no sin in the Holy Spirit...we must be birthed in the Spirit, to be in the righteousness of Christ....a Born Again has been set free from sin.

See...this is what I'm talking about. We are talking about two different things.

There is a salvific indwelling of the Spirit. We can all agree on the particulars of that ( or at least I hope we can ). But that's not what's in view here. At least not what I'm talking about and I think that Carbon is trying to get at.

 

[Ritajanice]

There is a salvific indwelling of the Spirit

I don’t understand this.

I was birthed in the Spirit.....permanently.....I belong to God....he/ Holy Spirit has taken up residence in my spirit...permanently, never ever to leave.

For me being birthed in the Spirit is very easy to understand....anyway I will leave you to it, if I’m on the wrong track..God Bless.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

I don’t understand this.

I was birthed in the Spirit.....permanently.....I belong to God....he/ Holy Spirit has taken up residence in my spirit...permanently, never ever to leave.

For me being birthed in the Spirit is very easy to understand....anyway I will leave you to it, if I’m on the wrong track..God Bless.

I'd say you understand the salvific indwelling of the Spirit just fine. So... /shrug

 

[Carbon]

No, you brushed it off, and said something like so what, what does it mean?

The Hebrews text.

But brethren if you all want to believe the Spirit indwells the lost, rocks, leaves, grasshoppers, be my guest. Apparently, you believe He has to indwell them for them to exist, yet Hebrews 1:2-3 shows that isn't the case, that all things are held up by the word of His power, not by the indwelling Spirit.

So, if you all want to believe that, that's fine with me. Hopefully, if I don't, that can be fine with you as well.

Other than that it seems to not be a profitable engagement. No harm, no foul, no worries.

but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, Heb 1:2-3.

Since I haven’t considered this yet, as you said, I will now.
First the major theme in Hebrews is the supremacy of Christ. Jesus is God, the Father speaks to us through Christ he is appointed heir of all things and Christ also created the world.
And as you said, and I agree: “he upholds the universe by the word of his power.”

I’m saying as I’m sure you agree, we have one God in three persons.
In the COR the Father chose an elect, Christ died for them and the Spirit gathers them and all three persons are in agreement. It does not teach Jesus or the Father gathers the elect but the Spirit gathers the elect. Scripture does not teach the Spirit died on the cross but the son. But are not all three persons there?
In Creation God created the planets, how? Because God said, and we realize the Triune God in action. The Spirit wasn’t hovering over the water to just watch creation, He was creating. I think it’s the same to say all things are held up by the word of His power is God the Holy Spirit in action. Can you prove different? Does this seem wrong? Or is it something we never considered before?

 

[Carbon]

The Holy Spirit does not indwell a sinner...there is no sin in the Holy Spirit...we must be birthed in the Spirit, to be in the righteousness of Christ....a Born Again has been set free from sin.

With out the breath/spirit of life, this sinner would return to dust.

 

[civic]

but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, Heb 1:2-3.

Since I haven’t considered this yet, as you said, I will now.
First the major theme in Hebrews is the supremacy of Christ. Jesus is God, the Father speaks to us through Christ he is appointed heir of all things and Christ also created the world.
And as you said, and I agree: “he upholds the universe by the word of his power.”

I’m saying as I’m sure you agree, we have one God in three persons.
In the COR the Father chose an elect, Christ died for them and the Spirit gathers them and all three persons are in agreement. It does not teach Jesus or the Father gathers the elect but the Spirit gathers the elect. Scripture does not teach the Spirit died on the cross but the son. But are not all three persons there?
In Creation God created the planets, how? Because God said, and we realize the Triune God in action. The Spirit wasn’t hovering over the water to just watch creation, He was creating. I think it’s the same to say all things are held up by the word of His power is God the Holy Spirit in action. Can you prove different? Does this seem wrong? Or is it something we never considered before?

Can you point me to the passage where the spirit gathers the elect , thanks

 

[civic]

Ephesians 1:3-14
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.


1-Paul gives praise, glory and honor to the Father in 1:3-6
2-Paul gives praise, glory and honor to the Son in 1:7-12
3-Paul gives praise, glory and honor to the Holy Spirit in 1:13-14

1-Salvation is Assigned by the Father
2-Salvation is Achieved through the Son
3-Salvation is Active from the Holy Spirit

Hence once again we see the Trinity in Action in the life of the believer!

Salvation is administered and assigned by the Father, accomplished and achieved through the Son and applied and activated by the Holy Spirit. We see the Trinity in action in the Redemption of the believer

 

[Carbon]

Can you point me to the passage where the spirit gathers the elect , thanks

You just did in your following post.

 

[Carbon]

Can you point me to the passage where the spirit gathers the elect , thanks

Isn’t it the Spirit that gives the New heart in regeneration? Who else would or could gather?

 

[fastfredy0]

Technically, God being omnipresent, the Spirit is found in everything. “Indwelling” refers to being present to “benefit” the person the is indwelt. Chafer, Lewis Sperry. The Collected Works of Lewis Sperry Chafer - Seven books in one. Jawbone Digital. Kindle Edition.

 

[civic]

Isn’t it the Spirit that give the New heart in regeneration? Who else would or could gather?

Christ said He would send the Spirit( Comforter, Helper) to be with them and in them . He sent the Spirit at Pentecost.

 

[Carbon]

Huh? Not so fast Freddy. What are you saying?

 

[Ritajanice]

Isn’t it the Spirit that gives the New heart in regeneration? Who else would or could gather?

Of course, that’s the birthing...regenerated/ being brought Alive in the Spirit....he puts that new heart/ Spirit within us...

​

◄ Ezekiel 36:26 ►

​

Context Crossref Comm Hebrew Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. New Living Translation And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart.

 

[Carbon]

@preacher4truth Here is one commentary. And there is much more to this one.

14–15 As the sole governor and sustainer of the universe (v 13), God would find it very easy to destroy all his creation (vv 14b–15), if he set his mind to it (v 14a). But he does not do so because that would be unjust to those who deserve to live, and he would not be true to himself if he did not uphold the rights of the righteous.
V 14 begins with a key clause, which is variously interpreted (for the details, see Note 14.b). As it stands, the Hebrew says, “If it were his intention” (NIV), “If he plans in his heart” (Habel), which suggests that God has the capacity to bring life to an end but that he does not choose to exercise that power. Other translations and commentators emend the text to read “if he should take back his spirit to himself” (so RSV, NAB, NJB, GNB), but the emendation seems unnecessary. The sense is not greatly altered, nevertheless.
The main idea is that all living things live through the breath given them by God. Since he is the giver of breath (also at Isa 42:5), he has the right also to be the taker, so the thought runs (cf. 1:21). A quite similar text is Ps 104:29: when God takes away the breath (רוח) of creatures, they die and return to their dust. But in this Joban passage there is a novelty: the breath of living creatures is not just their own breath but the breath of God. It is his spirit (רוחו) and his breath (נשׁמתו) that sustain life. Another intertext is Gen 2:7, where the human has breathed into it God’s breath (נשׁמה) of life and so becomes a living being (cf. also Job 27:3; 33:4 for God’s breath in the human being). But here it appears to be all living creatures, “all flesh” (כל־בשׂר), that are imbued with the divine breath. For “all flesh” as a term that explicitly includes the animal creation, cf. Gen 7:21 “All flesh died that moved upon the earth, birds, cattle, beasts, all swarming creatures that swarm upon the earth, and every human.” In a few places “all flesh” does seem to be restricted to humans (Isa 40:5; 49:26; 66:23; Jer 25:31; Ezek 20:48 [21:4]; 21:5 [10]; Joel 3:1 [2:28]; Zech 2:13 [17]; Pss 65:2 [3]; 145:21), but mostly it is either clearly or possibly all living beings. “All flesh” is parallel here to אדם “humanity,” but that does not mean that the two terms are equivalent; a similar parallelism of כל־חי “all that lives” (see also on 28:21) with אישׁ “humankind” can be seen in 12:10. On the idea of God “gathering” (אסף) his breath to himself, cf. Ps 104:29; in Eccl 12:7 the spirit “returns” (שׁוב), more of its own volition, to God who gave it. On עפר “mud” as well as “dust,” see Comment on 30:19.
There are many unsatisfactory ways of understanding these verses. Taken by themselves, and out of their context, they have been called one of the most beautiful and striking passages in the OT (Budde), teaching that “the transcendent God is also the immanent God, sustaining all life by his animating breath” (Strahan). On the contrary, in the context of Elihu’s argument they take on a darker hue, speaking not so much of the animation of life as of its precariousness, the existence of human and beast alike hanging by the thread of a divine thought. Delitzsch too argued that since “by the impartation of His living creative breath” God sustains the universe, and does not “allow them to fall away into nothingness,” there must be “a divine love which has called the world into being and … as the perfect opposite of sovereign caprice, is a pledge for the absolute righteousness of the divine rule.” But it is difficult to see how it is divine love for the universe that ensures that the wicked are punished, and it is negative retribution for sinners that Elihu is defending just as much as the positive form for the righteous.


David J. A. Clines, Job 21–37, vol. 18a, Word Biblical Commentary (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 2006), 774–775.

 

[Deleted member 5]

@preacher4truth Here is one commentary. And there is much more to this one.

14–15 As the sole governor and sustainer of the universe (v 13), God would find it very easy to destroy all his creation (vv 14b–15), if he set his mind to it (v 14a). But he does not do so because that would be unjust to those who deserve to live, and he would not be true to himself if he did not uphold the rights of the righteous.
V 14 begins with a key clause, which is variously interpreted (for the details, see Note 14.b). As it stands, the Hebrew says, “If it were his intention” (NIV), “If he plans in his heart” (Habel), which suggests that God has the capacity to bring life to an end but that he does not choose to exercise that power. Other translations and commentators emend the text to read “if he should take back his spirit to himself” (so RSV, NAB, NJB, GNB), but the emendation seems unnecessary. The sense is not greatly altered, nevertheless.
The main idea is that all living things live through the breath given them by God. Since he is the giver of breath (also at Isa 42:5), he has the right also to be the taker, so the thought runs (cf. 1:21). A quite similar text is Ps 104:29: when God takes away the breath (רוח) of creatures, they die and return to their dust. But in this Joban passage there is a novelty: the breath of living creatures is not just their own breath but the breath of God. It is his spirit (רוחו) and his breath (נשׁמתו) that sustain life. Another intertext is Gen 2:7, where the human has breathed into it God’s breath (נשׁמה) of life and so becomes a living being (cf. also Job 27:3; 33:4 for God’s breath in the human being). But here it appears to be all living creatures, “all flesh” (כל־בשׂר), that are imbued with the divine breath. For “all flesh” as a term that explicitly includes the animal creation, cf. Gen 7:21 “All flesh died that moved upon the earth, birds, cattle, beasts, all swarming creatures that swarm upon the earth, and every human.” In a few places “all flesh” does seem to be restricted to humans (Isa 40:5; 49:26; 66:23; Jer 25:31; Ezek 20:48 [21:4]; 21:5 [10]; Joel 3:1 [2:28]; Zech 2:13 [17]; Pss 65:2 [3]; 145:21), but mostly it is either clearly or possibly all living beings. “All flesh” is parallel here to אדם “humanity,” but that does not mean that the two terms are equivalent; a similar parallelism of כל־חי “all that lives” (see also on 28:21) with אישׁ “humankind” can be seen in 12:10. On the idea of God “gathering” (אסף) his breath to himself, cf. Ps 104:29; in Eccl 12:7 the spirit “returns” (שׁוב), more of its own volition, to God who gave it. On עפר “mud” as well as “dust,” see Comment on 30:19.
There are many unsatisfactory ways of understanding these verses. Taken by themselves, and out of their context, they have been called one of the most beautiful and striking passages in the OT (Budde), teaching that “the transcendent God is also the immanent God, sustaining all life by his animating breath” (Strahan). On the contrary, in the context of Elihu’s argument they take on a darker hue, speaking not so much of the animation of life as of its precariousness, the existence of human and beast alike hanging by the thread of a divine thought. Delitzsch too argued that since “by the impartation of His living creative breath” God sustains the universe, and does not “allow them to fall away into nothingness,” there must be “a divine love which has called the world into being and … as the perfect opposite of sovereign caprice, is a pledge for the absolute righteousness of the divine rule.” But it is difficult to see how it is divine love for the universe that ensures that the wicked are punished, and it is negative retribution for sinners that Elihu is defending just as much as the positive form for the righteous.


David J. A. Clines, Job 21–37, vol. 18a, Word Biblical Commentary (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 2006), 774–775.

Yes, I've read that, yet it does not teach that the Spirit is in everything nor in every one.

All things are sustained by God, but that doesn't intend that the Spirit is IN them. Job's text isn't teaching about taking God's Spirit back, but mans spirit, and man's breath, and if so, man would die.

But Like I said, I 'm not going to go round and round over it.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Hmmm...has Preacher put me on ignore? :/

 

[makesends]

We got to be careful here as pantheism is God is in everything.

Not exactly. Pantheism comes to that, among other things it comes to, but it claims that everything is what God consists of, if I understand right. It says the universe, or the omni, could be God, and we are pieces of God. Animism in one of its many forms, says that the gods are in everything.

 

[Deleted member 5]

Hmmm...has Preacher put me on ignore? :/

Nope. Why would I?

I saw where you spoke of indwelling and of "us" not being able to make the distinction between indwelling for salvation and the Spirit in everything.

Come on, bro!

Posts 56 & 60 show I do know the distinction and never conflated the two.

Lost men are devoid of the Spirit, Jude 1:19, Romans 8:9; not indwelt partly for sustaining purposes. Christ spoke all things into being via His word, and they are still upheld by that word, Hebrews 1.

Only believers have the Spirit of God. That is a basic tenet of sound doctrine and Scripture.

When God breathed into us the breath of life, I do not believe that means we have the Holy Spirit in our lungs.