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Is the Spirit in everything?

I don`t think `breath` and `spirit` are the same. When man`s breath is taken away he dies, however he still has a spirit whether its alive or not to God.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. John 20.
 
Caps were uncommon in the OT. So I don't think that matters. There is something different between a man and an animal, for sure.
Yes, I agree concerning capitals.

And a difference between God`s Spirit and breath?
 
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. John 20.
Yet the Holy Spirit sent for the purpose of building the Body of Christ was yet not given. It seems we are touching on areas concerning the Holy Spirit`s purpose at different times.
 
`Nevertheless I tell the truth. It is for your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.` (John 16: 7)
 
To me, this is very deep. If someone would have asked me this, say, a couple yeas ago, I would have been like, "Are you out of your mind?"
But one thing I learn regularly is God is beyond us, His ways are unsearchable and unknowable, and we know about Him what is written in His word, nothing more. And to read a passage like the one in Job, Wow! It is truly amazing.

Look at it again:

14 If he should set his heart to it
and gather to himself his spirit and his breath,
15 all flesh would perish together,
and man would return to dust.


Job 34:14-15

It is utterly amazing! Unless someone comes up with a good sensible reason not to believe as I do here, it makes total sense to me and I do not believe I am off base and heading in the wrong direction.

Scripture teaches God is Almighty, He is the Creator and sustainer of the universe. So, why would or should we take this passage apart to make it mean something different? Consider it in its context.
Job isn't speaking of God gathering HIS Spirit, but mans spirit, and man's breath:

if] he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; not his own spirit and breath, drawing in and retaining that within himself, and withholding the influence of it from his creatures, which the Septuagint version seems to favour; but the spirit and breath of man, which are of God, and which, as he gives, he can gather when he pleases. The spirit or rational soul of man is put in him by the Lord; this at death is separated from the body, yet dies not with it, but is gathered to the Lord: and the breath which he breathes into man, and is in his nostrils, and which, as he gives, he can take away, and then man dies. But in doing this he does no injustice; indeed, should he in anger and resentment rise up and deal thus with men in general, the consequence must be as follows. - John Gill


If he set his heart upon man] I think this and the following verse should be read thus:-"If he set his heart upon man, he will gather his soul and breath to himself; for all flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust." On whomsoever God sets his heart, that is, his love, though his body shall perish and turn to dust, like the rest of men, yet his soul will God gather to himself. - Adam Clarke

This is just God alone, by whose רוּח and נשׁמה the animal world as well as the world of men (vid., Job 32:8; Job 33:4 (refs2)) has its life, Job 34:14: if He should direct His heart, i.e., His attention ( שׂים לב אל , as Job 2:3), to Himself (emphatic: Himself alone), draw in ( אסף as Psa 104:29; comp. for the matter Ecc 12:7, Psychol. S. 406) to Himself His inspiration and breath (which emanated from Him or was effected by Him), all flesh would sink together, i.e., die off at once (this, as it appears, has reference to the taking back of the animal life, רוח ), and man would return (this has reference to the taking back of the human spirit, נשׁמה ) to dust ( על instead of אל , perhaps with reference to the usual use of the על־עפר , Job 17:16; Job 20:11; Job 21:26 (refs3)). - K&D


Upon man, Heb. upon him , i.e. man, as may seem probable from Job 34:11 ,Job 34:15 , where man is expressed; and from the next clause of this verse, where he speaks of that spirit and breath which is in man. - Matthew Poole

I've yet to find any commentator that says this is speaking of God gathering His own Spirit unto Himself.
 
Yes, I agree concerning capitals.

And a difference between God`s Spirit and breath?
When you hide your face, they are dismayed;
when you take away their breath, they die
and return to their dust.
Psalm 104:29.
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Ecc 12:7.

If I am not mistaken it's the same word for breath and spirit which is Pneuma.
 
Scripture teaches God is Almighty, He is the Creator and sustainer of the universe. So, why would or should we take this passage a[art to make it mean something different? Consider it in its context.
Agreed. Something to consider...
No created object has the power within itself to sustain itself (including its own mind) or the power within itself to produce any effect in another object. If it has the power within itself to sustain itself, then by definition it would not require God to continue to exist –it would have the power of self-existence, and thus an independent existence from God. This would by definition make this object deity in itself. Among other reasons that would render this impossible, biblical revelation cannot harmonize with this, since it declares that God sustains all things (see preservation, Acts 17:28a, Colossians 1:17, Hebrews 1:3, Romans 11:36, Job 34:14-15) by his power. A similar denial is made against the idea that a created object can have power within itself to influence another object. Rather, only God has this power. In other words, when existence and causation are considered on this ultimate or metaphysical level, God is the only power that sustains all things and that causes all things. In the absolute sense, God is the only cause of anything. Vincent Cheung
 
`Nevertheless I tell the truth. It is for your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.` (John 16: 7)
It would seem, the unbelievers have enough of the Spirit to sustain life, like common grace. But the elect? That's a different story.
 
Agreed. Something to consider...
No created object has the power within itself to sustain itself (including its own mind) or the power within itself to produce any effect in another object. If it has the power within itself to sustain itself, then by definition it would not require God to continue to exist –it would have the power of self-existence, and thus an independent existence from God. This would by definition make this object deity in itself. Among other reasons that would render this impossible, biblical revelation cannot harmonize with this, since it declares that God sustains all things (see preservation, Acts 17:28a, Colossians 1:17, Hebrews 1:3, Romans 11:36, Job 34:14-15) by his power. A similar denial is made against the idea that a created object can have power within itself to influence another object. Rather, only God has this power. In other words, when existence and causation are considered on this ultimate or metaphysical level, God is the only power that sustains all things and that causes all things. In the absolute sense, God is the only cause of anything. Vincent Cheung
None of the above means God's Spirit resides in everything, nor that it has to for life to be sustained. We are not Pantheists, we are Christians.

For others sake, Vincent Cheung also said this:

"Cessationists, like your forefathers, you have always resisted the Holy Spirit and persecuted God’s messengers (Acts 7:51). Jesus Christ is God’s final message and final warning to you. He is your last chance. If you reject this charismatic Messiah, you will not receive a cessationist Messiah. If you reject his theology of charismatic powers, his doctrine of extreme faith, and his mandate of expansionism by miracles, you will not receive a different creed or tradition. No one else is coming. No one will come to overturn his promises about faith, the Holy Spirit, and the performance of the same works, and the greater works. Jesus Christ is the only Savior. If you do not believe this one, you are finished. If you wait for another, you will die in your sin and burn in hell. As for Scripture, there will be no more development in God’s written revelation to alter what God has said. This is your last chance to believe that all of God’s people can receive prophecies and miracles by faith. Your own doctrine destroys any excuse or escape."
 
Job isn't speaking of God gathering HIS Spirit, but mans spirit, and man's breath:
Sorry brother but I think you are wrong here.
14 If he should set his heart to it
and gather to himself his spirit and his breath,


There is absolutely no reason to think it's man's breath. Consider the chapter/context.


Do you think man possesses some sort of power like this?

15 all flesh would perish together,
and man would return to dust.
 
Sorry brother but I think you are wrong here.
It's OK, no worries.
14 If he should set his heart to it
and gather to himself his spirit and his breath,\
"And gather to himself his spirit and his breath" has to and is referring to man. Man's spirit, man's breath. The subject above is man, not God.
There is absolutely no reason to think it's man's breath. Consider the chapter/context.
The context is man, not God.
Do you think man possesses some sort of power like this?
15 all flesh would perish together,
and man would return to dust.
That's where I believe you go the wrong route. I'm asserting none of that, so it is non sequitur.

Do you have some commentary on that text that supports you?
 
Agreed. Something to consider...
No created object has the power within itself to sustain itself (including its own mind) or the power within itself to produce any effect in another object.
Correct.
If it has the power within itself to sustain itself, then by definition it would not require God to continue to exist
Correct
–it would have the power of self-existence, and thus an independent existence from God. This would by definition make this object deity in itself. Among other reasons that would render this impossible, biblical revelation cannot harmonize with this, since it declares that God sustains all things (see preservation, Acts 17:28a, Colossians 1:17, Hebrews 1:3, Romans 11:36, Job 34:14-15) by his power.
(y)
A similar denial is made against the idea that a created object can have power within itself to influence another object. Rather, only God has this power. In other words, when existence and causation are considered on this ultimate or metaphysical level, God is the only power that sustains all things and that causes all things. In the absolute sense, God is the only cause of anything. Vincent Cheung
(y)
 
It's OK, no worries.

"And gather to himself his spirit and his breath" has to and is referring to man. Man's spirit, man's breath. The subject above is man, not God.

The context is man, not God.

That's where I believe you go the wrong route. I'm asserint none of that, so it is non sequitur.

Do you have some commentary on that text that supports you?
A number of commentaries actually. They are in the logos bible software.

In some things we will have to agree to disagree. :) Oh I hate that saying. 😑
 
I do want to make one thing clear here. Nowhere in denying that the Spirit resides in every single thing (as I deny) does it entail that I believe that things have sustaining power in themselves.

That's a straw man argument.

All things are held up by what? Can we get our teaching on this from the word instead of obscure texts and a heterodox arminian named Vincent Cheung?

Can we be reasonable here? Can we get from Scripture the teaching? Can I not be accused of saying man and other objects have sustaining power within themselves?

Seriously brothers, that is a false and unsubstantiated charge. :)

So, again, all things are held up by what?

By the Spirit being in every single thing?

No.

By Pantheistic tenets?

No.

By what then? What does Scripture say all things are held up by? It says by the word of His power; Hebrews 1:2-3. It does not say by the Spirit indwelling all things.

So that is where my belief comes from right there. Nothing in Scipture teaches that the Spirit is in every object under the Sun, but that all things are sustained by the word of His power.
 
I do want to make one thing clear here. Nowhere in denying that the Spirit resides in every single thing (as I deny) does it entail that I believe that things have sustaining power in themselves.

That's a straw man argument.
I wouldn't think that for a minute brother, I know enough about you and your love for truth to even think such a thing.
By what then? What does Scripture say all things are held up by? It says by the word of His power; Hebrews 1:2-3. It does not say by the Spirit indwelling all things.

So that is where my belief comes from right there. Nothing in Scipture teaches that the Spirit is in every object under the Sun, but that all things are sustained by the word of His power.
Thanks for your reply. I will look deeper into this tomorrow. As tonight is rolling on, and 5 comes early.
 
A number of commentaries actually. They are in the logos bible software.
OK. Can you share them on the text in Job that support your beliefs?

Yet again though, looking at the text the latter portion "his spirit, his breath" is talking about a human, talking about man. The word "his" is then about man, not God. It's quite easy to see this is the context.
In some things we will have to agree to disagree. :) Oh I hate that saying. 😑
It's OK. No worries.
 
I wouldn't think that for a minute brother, I know enough about you and your love for truth to even think such a thing.
No worries, but I have been called out for that as if I believe this. But even generally those who do not believe the Spirit indwellds all things have been hit with that non sequitur assertion.

No one that I know of believes created things are self-sustaining. That is an unfortunate charge to lay upon others.
Thanks for your reply. I will look deeper into this tomorrow. As tonight is rolling on, and 5 comes early.
I hear that. I usually get up around 3:30-4:00 a.m.
 
No worries, but I have been called out for that as if I believe this. But even generally those who do not believe the Spirit indwellds all things have been hit with that non sequitur assertion.

No one that I know of believes created things are self-sustaining. That is an unfortunate charge to lay upon others.

I hear that. I usually get up around 3:30-4:00 a.m.
Tomorrow after work I will give the commentaries. Do you have logos? I don't remember what you said.
 
Tomorrow after work I will give the commentaries. Do you have logos? I don't remember what you said.
I have Logos, but only the free version. Even so, none that I've looked at still support a contrary idea. I will have to look at some commentary in my library as well. But then again, as I've said, to see it otherwise takes the text out of its context and application.

But I will be more than glad to read others take.
 
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