Is belief a choice?

[Ritajanice]

Are you saying that you had no knowledge of Jesus, none, prior to whatever this testifying of the Spirit to your spirit that you are a child of God took place?

Arial please read my posts...I was taught all about Jesus at school..no one can come to the Father except through the Son.....no Jesus..no Born Again...even then God brought me to believe in Jesus...Praise His Holy Name.

All Glory goes to the Lord there is no glory in us....all knowledge comes from the Spirit..I will never pat anyone on the back....only God gets all the glory on my watch.

 

[Arial]

Arial please read my posts...I was taught all about Jesus at school..no one can come to the Father except through the Son.....no Jesus..no Born Again...even then God brought me to believe in Jesus...Praise His Holy Name.

All Glory goes to the Lord there is no glory in us..

That is my point. You did know about Jesus.And you were taught about Jesus, from the Bible. You didn't believe it until you were born again, and when you were born again, the Spirit testified to your spirit that indeed you were a child of God. Not before you were born again. It was the being born again that produced the belief. It was a "once I was blind, but now I see! moment. That is in itself, the Spirit testifying to your spirit that you are a child of God.

Knowing that we were born again, on "day one", is not necessary, and normally not known, since the idea of being born again is something we have to learn and that we learn from the scriptures. It is something we know took place using hindsight, because his word tells us that, quite clearly, in John 3. And the Spirit testifies with our spirit of this new birth into the family of God, whether we understand or know that yet, or not.

 

[Ritajanice]

Well, Rita, I do have the Spirit indwelling me. I have been born again. So give it a try---answering my questions, which were not general, but specific to you.

I’ve already answered your question...you said something about fresh air...

How did Calvin get into the conversation? I know I never mentioned him. You say you are here to preach God's word on how he births the spirit. The OP is actually not about that, it is dealing with the question of whether or not belief unto salvation is a choice. So my inquiry would be, if you are only here to preach God's word, does that imply that you have all knowledge and are not willing to listen and learn?

Are you willing to listen and learn Arial...it doesn’t seem that way..you seem to have battened down the hatches , not a good place to be..

I also said that whatever I believe the Spirit places on my heart to post it will be posted and yes I am certainly here to learn from the Holy Spirit..not from man/ woman teachings....

No one on here worships Calvin and the accusation is simply a diversion.

What do you mean Arial ..a diversion are you making assumptions of me again?

Well, you quote them from the Bible. But what then is the purpose of the Bible? Do you believe it is the inerrant word of God? What does this passage IN the Bible mean from the HIgh Priestly Prayer of Jesus? John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

The Bible is there to check what I hear is from the Spirit and not my imagination/ emotions.

No one you are engaging with disagrees with that. But we are born again from something TO something. Faith in the person and work of Christ. Where does it tell us about Christ and his person and his work? The natural man is born in Adam. The new man is taken out of Adam and born into Christ. Faith comes with that. By grace you are saved through faith. It is not just our hearts that are involved, but also our minds. Our mind is not to be disengaged from our faith, nor can it be.

Sorry the above makes no sense with respect.

It is our whole self that is reconciled to God.

Our spirit is also reconciled back to God when it becomes Born Again..we have a new heart and spirit within..

 

[Arial]

I’ve already answered your question...you said something about fresh air...

Are you willing to listen and learn Arial...it doesn’t seem that way..you seem to have battened down the hatches , not a good place to be..

I also said that whatever I believe the Spirit places on my heart to post it will be posted and yes I am certainly here to learn from the Holy Spirit..not from man/ woman teachings....

What do you mean Arial ..a diversion are you making assumptions of me again?

The Bible is there to check what I hear is from the Spirit and not my imagination/ emotions.

Sorry the above makes no sense with respect.

Our spirit is also reconciled back to God when it becomes Born Again..we have a new heart and spirit within..

If contention is your game, there is no point in fueling the fire. Whatever I say will be dismissed, not considered, and met with contention.

 

[Ritajanice]

That is my point. You did know about Jesus.And you were taught about Jesus, from the Bible. You didn't believe it until you were born again, and when you were born again, the Spirit testified to your spirit that indeed you were a child of God. Not before you were born again. It was the being born again that produced the belief. It was a "once I was blind, but now I see! moment. That is in itself, the Spirit testifying to your spirit that you are a child of God.

Again Arial.i won’t engage with you, as the above is full of confusion..you aren’t making an ounce of sense..with respect.

Knowing that we were born again, on "day one", is not necessary, and normally not known, since the idea of being born again is something we have to learn and that we learn from the scriptures. It is something we know took place using hindsight, because his word tells us that, quite clearly, in John 3. And the Spirit testifies with our spirit of this new birth into the family of God, whether we understand or know that yet, or not.

Knowing on day one that I was Born Again...is most necessary.....I was taught by the Spirit how I became Born Again....all I knew at the time of my rebirth was, that I was Born Again....that’s all I knew....the knowledge of my rebirth came from the Spirit bringing scripture to my understanding...

 

[Ritajanice]

If contention is your game, there is no point in fueling the fire. Whatever I say will be dismissed, not considered, and met with contention.

Arial...please stop your accusations..try not to take everything that is said so personally...a lot of what you say is confusing,I’m just being honest..just like what I post to you is confusing...which you have well pointed out, you can’t understand how I became Born Again..I don’t think I took offence did I?

You understand God your way..I understand God my way...the way he brings us to understand....no big deal now is it.

 

[Rescued One]

Are you implying that God has decreed/ordained me to believe that Calvinism is unacceptable?

He doesn't have to make you believe that. Everyone descended from Adam and Eve are sinners unless He chose to save some. It is obvious that many are not saved.

John 3:18
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 10
25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
27My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and My Father are one.”

 

[Arial]

Arial...please stop your accusations..try not to take everything that is said so personally...a lot of what you say is confusing,I’m just being honest..just like what I post to you is confusing...which you have well pointed out, you can’t understand how I became Born Again..I don’t think I took offence did I?

You understand God your way..I understand God my way...the way he brings us to understand....no big deal now is it.

You did take offense and implied that I could not understand you because I would have to have the Spirit in order to do so. It is you who do not understand me. I know this because you do not address what I say and instead simply tell me that your are right and I am wrong. And your reasons for me being wrong, are all stated as though I believed something I have said, at least twice, that I do not believe. You misrepresent what I say. You began posting to me with an accusatory contentious spirit. Now it may be that you simply are not wording what you mean in a clear way, a way that makes the new birth sound esoteric and disengaged from the Bible or knowledge, or even the mind. If that is the case, the onus is on you to recognize that as the problem, and learn to be more precise. Or at least, clarify when asked to, instead of saying you can't because someone without the Spirit won't be able to understand!

I am not going to do this with you.

 

[Arial]

you said something about fresh air...

I said nothing about fresh air!

 

[Ritajanice]

You did take offense and implied that I could not understand you because I would have to have the Spirit in order to do so.

I said no such thing.

It is you who do not understand me. I know this because you do not address what I say and instead simply tell me that your are right and I am wrong.

Your way of understanding Born Again is not the way the Lord brought me to understand the rebirth..so please stop trying to tell me how I was Born Again, you weren’t with me when the Spirit birthed my spirit into his.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children, with out the Living testimony of the Holy Spirit there is no way that my spirit would know that it’s Born Again....you mentioned “ thin air” no the Spirit didn’t testify out of thin air....he testified with my spirit that I’m God’s child, Born Again, Born Again of imperishable seed,Regenerated...my spirit was brought from death to life in Christ....my spirit is Alive in Christ..brought from darkness into his magnificent light...heart revelation....it is not i who lives but Christ lives in me..

And your reasons for me being wrong, are all stated as though I believed something I have said, at least twice, that I do not believe. You misrepresent what I say. You began posting to me with an accusatory contentious spirit. Now it may be that you simply are not wording what you mean in a clear way, a way that makes the new birth sound esoteric and disengaged from the Bible or knowledge, or even the mind. If that is the case, the onus is on you to recognize that as the problem, and learn to be more precise. Or at least, clarify when asked to, instead of saying you can't because someone without the Spirit won't be able to understand!

I can’t clarify something that doesn’t make an ounce of sense...you have added so much to what I posted and made it your own...maybe you need to take some of your own advice..you need to understand that you are not my teacher...looks like I will have to exit the forum once again...because you can’t seem to accept that some don’t see the rebirth as you see/ believe it...

I am not going to do this with you.

I am not doing this with you either, please quit your accusations about me.

 

[Ritajanice]

I said nothing about fresh air!

It was thin air....you said the Spirit testifies with our spirit out of thin air I believe.....no, he testifies with our spirit.just as the Bible confirms....nothing added nothing taken away.

Romans 8​

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Eleanor]

If contention is your game, there is no point in fueling the fire. Whatever I say will be dismissed, not considered, and met with contention.

Processing disorders do exist.

It seems that @Ritajanice is unable to process the written word on her own, but when she receives it from the Holy Spirit and then compares it to the written word, she can process it.
The Holy Spirit gives her the understanding which she can then match up to the words.

 

[Arial]

It was thin air....you said the Spirit testifies with our spirit out of thin air I believe.....no, he testifies with our spirit.just as the Bible confirms....nothing added nothing taken away.

I ask if that was what happened in your case. The other option is, was it connected to knowledge, that you had previously, but did not believe previously? I don't understand why that makes no sense to you.

Don't misrepresent me again.

 

[Arial]

Processing disorders do exist.

It seems that @Ritajanice is unable to process the written word on her own, but when she receives it from the Holy Spirit and then compares it to the written word, she can process it.
The Holy Spirit gives her the understanding which she can then match up to the words.

The word only comes from the Holy Spirit. It is his word. But there certainly seems to be a problem in processing anything I say.

 

[Ritajanice]

I ask if that was what happened in your case. The other option is, was it connected to knowledge, that you had previously, but did not believe previously? I don't understand why that makes no sense to you.

It doesn’t make sense because you aren’t my teacher.the Living Holy Spirit is

Don't misrepresent me again.

And please don’t make accusations against me..

 

[Ritajanice]

Processing disorders do exist.

It seems that @Ritajanice is unable to process the written word on her own, but when she receives it from the Holy Spirit and then compares it to the written word, she can process it.
The Holy Spirit gives her the understanding which she can then match up to the words.

Of course I can understand the scriptures ,as long as the Spirit brings them to my understanding..unfortunately Arial has a problem understanding how the Spirit testified with my spirit that I am his child...whatever makes you think that I can’t process what the Spirit brings me to understand in the Bible?

God has always spoken directly to my spirit...how can you process the written word on your own @Eleanor ...you need the Spirit to bring you to understand God’s word...you can’t process his word from your own ability?

 

[Eleanor]

Of course I can understand the scriptures ,as long as the Spirit brings them to my understanding..unfortunately Arial has a problem understanding how the Spirit testified with my spirit that I am his child...whatever makes you think that I can’t process what the Spirit brings me to understand in the Bible?

I am saying just the opposite. . .the Holy Spirit gives you to process/understand it.

 

[Ritajanice]

The word only comes from the Holy Spirit. It is his word. But there certainly seems to be a problem in processing anything I say.

We are Born Of The Spirit..Spirit gives birth to spirit...you do understand that Gods word is Alive and Active...his word / seed is planted into the heart of his child...we have been Born Again of imperishable seed...that seed is Alive and Active in our spirit, the Living seed of God/ Christ.

 

[Ritajanice]

I am saying just the opposite. . .the Holy Spirit gives you to process/understand it.

So, who has the processing disorder that you speak of?

I hope you aren’t insinuating that I have a processing disorder?

The Spirit witnesses Gods truth to my spirit...from day one...I’m in direct contact with the Spirit Of God...we learn everything in God’s timing..whether I’m a slow learner or not, doesn’t make me inferior to you nor anyone else...I learn in Gods timing that I do know.

 

[Eleanor]

Of course I can understand the scriptures ,as long as the Spirit brings them to my understanding..unfortunately Arial has a problem understanding how the Spirit testified with my spirit that I am his child...whatever makes you think that I can’t process what the Spirit brings me to understand in the Bible?

God has always spoken directly to my spirit...how can you process the written word on your own @Eleanor ...you need the Spirit to bring you to understand God’s word...you can’t process his word from your own ability?

Do you remember Clare73?