Which part are you saying wow!
Is anyone planning on...............
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Communion. Also known in its own form by Catholics as the Eucharist. This will be the way in which I see it as derived from scripture. My own words, my own view as I search it out from scriptures on the subject and related to it. Not a copy paste, (except for scriptures) or plagiarizing other materials. It should be noted that it will contain an example of using the whole counsel of God concerning the matter, and letting scripture interpret scripture, to arrive at my conclusions.
Before I get to the passages directly pertaining to the Last Supper, I look at the first time Jesus mentions His body and His blood.
John 6:51-58
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread[c] the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”
This was very disturbing for the Jews who Jesus was talking to, because they were forbidden under Mosaic covenant law from eating human flesh and from drinking blood. Even His disciples had difficulty with it. Jesus could not have been talking about literally eating His flesh and drinking His blood, so what did He mean?
Since He is saying He is the bread of life that comes down from heaven, this "eating" and "drinking" must refer to a union with Him which we learn elsewhere is through faith. We must come to Him and believe in Him as He stated in verse 35 Jesus said to them"I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. His flesh is His sacrificial death on the cross, His blood is like that of the sacrificial blood of the Passover lamb that spares others from death, giving them life. We will see this in those passages that deal with the Last Supper.
Mark 14:23-24 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them and said "Take, eat: this is My body." Then He took the cup, and when He had given thanks, He gave it to them, and the all drank from it. And He said to them,"This is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many." In the same account in Luke 22 He instructs, "Do this in remembrance of Me."
1 Cor 11: 23-26
23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body, which is for[f] you. Do this in remembrance of me.”[g] 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
So I see the Lord's supper as remembering of the death of Jesus on the cross as our Passover Lamb, together as a community of God in covenant relationship with Him through the sacrifice of Christ's body and the shedding of His blood. And our union with each other through our union with Him. It could be paralleled to the Passover feast of the Jews. A covenant sign. But even more than that, it is a conscious, deliberate remembering of who He is and the awesome grace He bestows. It is worship and honor.
We eat of His flesh and drink His blood always for we are united with Him through faith, and He gives life through who He is and what He did for us. The sacrifice of His body and the shedding of His blood. The communion of the saints (believers) in the bread and the wine is coming to the fountain of grace and remembering what He did, as a covenant community.
Why don't believe in transubstantiation. If the bread and wine become the actual essence of His flesh and His blood, it violates the commandment to not do so that are also given in the NT. It is not done in remembrance of the crucifixion but to gain something from imbibing human flesh and blood. And it in effect crucifies Jesus again and again in order to attain what He has already died for, and He is not dead, but is alive.
Sorry. Have written extensive notes from my scripture study and only for reference
Matt 23:9
Call no man father? Jesus is condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?
Or is this absolute?
God calls men father!
Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Jesus calls men father!
Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
Mary calls men father!
Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
Peter calls men father!
Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
Acts 3:22 Moses said unto the fathers…
The stephen calls men father!
Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!
The Bible calls men father!
Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
Jn 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Jesus does not rebuke her for calling men father!
Then there is spiritual fathers!
Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you
1 Tim 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father…
1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!
Isa 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!
Eph 3: 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
every family in heaven and on earth is named from the “Father.” We are fathers in the Father.
Acts 7:2; 22:1, 1 John 2:13 – elders of the Church are called “fathers.” Therefore, we should ask the question, “Why don’t Protestants call their pastors “father?”
1 Cor. 4:17 – Paul calls Bishop Timothy a beloved and faithful “child” in the Lord.
2 Cor. 12:14 – Paul describes his role as parent over his “children” the Corinthians.
Phil. 2:22 – Paul calls Timothy’s service to him as a son serves a “father.”
1 Thess. 2:11- Paul compares the Church elders’ ministry to the people like a father with his children.
1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3 – Paul calls Timothy his true “child” in the faith and his son.
Titus 1:4 – Paul calls Titus his true “child” in a common faith. Priests are our spiritual fathers in the family of God.
Philemon 10 – Paul says he has become the “father” of Onesimus.
Heb. 12:7,9 – emphasizes our earthly “fathers.” But these are not just biological but also spiritual (the priests of the Church).
1 Peter 5:13 – Peter refers to himself as father by calling Mark his “son.”
1 John 2:1,1 John 2:13,14 – John calls the elders of the Church “fathers.”
Isa 22:21-22 the prime minister who administer the kingdom under the king in the line of david Lk 1:32-23 has the title father and hold the keys Matt 16:18
Transubstantiation:
change of Substance not elements or appearance
Matt 26:26-27
Mk 14:22-24
Lk 22:19:20
1 Corinthians 11:24
And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Jesus took bread:
Bread, (not His flesh) and said the words of consecration “THIS IS MY BODY” changing the old covenant Passover into the New Testament in His body and blood!
Jesus took the cup:
Passover required it be wine (not His blood) and said: “THIS IS THE CUP OF MY BLOOD, of the new and eternal testament!
Do this (ordaining them His priests to offer this sacrifice until he returns) in remembrance of me!
Supporting verses
Jn chapter 6
Luke 24:35
And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
Acts 2:42
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Acts 2:46
And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
This requires a ministerial priesthood to offer the sacrifice of christ and administer the sacraments the means of grace that come from Christ and His sacrifice.
Ordained ministers “low priests” of which Christ is the high priest according to the order of melchisedec. Heb 7:17 heb 8:1
change of Substance not elements or appearance
Matt 26:26-27
Mk 14:22-24
Lk 22:19:20
1 Corinthians 11:24
And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Jesus took bread:
Bread, (not His flesh) and said the words of consecration “THIS IS MY BODY” changing the old covenant Passover into the New Testament in His body and blood!
Jesus took the cup:
Passover required it be wine (not His blood) and said: “THIS IS THE CUP OF MY BLOOD, of the new and eternal testament!
Do this (ordaining them His priests to offer this sacrifice until he returns) in remembrance of me!
Supporting verses
Jn chapter 6
Luke 24:35
And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
Acts 2:42
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Acts 2:46
And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
This requires a ministerial priesthood to offer the sacrifice of christ and administer the sacraments the means of grace that come from Christ and His sacrifice.
Ordained ministers “low priests” of which Christ is the high priest according to the order of melchisedec. Heb 7:17 heb 8:1
Finally you see the need of the apostolic church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19Time? You think that will help?
Huh? Scripture is scripture. You expect scripture to say somewhere. "This is scripture" And maybe in another book, (which is not one of the 66) will say somewhere, "This is not scripture."
Give me a brake.
Now you’re not making any sense.
We must be taught!
Lk 1:4
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Colossians 2:7
According to your doctrine “scripture is the only authority” then either scripture tells us or nobody does, if there is another authority to declare the canon and define the content of scripture, then scripture cannot be the “only authority” so I take it that you accept and believe the tradition that produced the New Testament and canon!
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Matt 28:19) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9:4 eph 4:4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13)
The church is of divine origin and cannot be corrupted or reformed by the tradition of men! Truth is immutable!
The church the only ark of salvation, the household of faith and is not spiritual to the exclusion of the physical or invisible to the exclusion of the visible but, visible, invisible, spiritual, physical, and supernatural of divine origin and therefore divine preservation! Matt 16:18-19 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13 Jn 10:16
A city set on a hill: Matt 5:14
Light of the world: Matt 5:14
Pillar of truth: 1 Tim 3:15
Teach and sanctify all men: Matt 28:19
Unity of faith!
Four Marks of the True Church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter, the apostles, and their successors!
One, holy, catholic (universal) and apostolic (succeeding from Christ, Peter and the apostles)
Where does it teach to sell offices?Time? You think that will help?
Huh? Scripture is scripture. You expect scripture to say somewhere. "This is scripture" And maybe in another book, (which is not one of the 66) will say somewhere, "This is not scripture."
Give me a brake.
Now your not making any sense.
You would have to show where the church teaches this.
Biblical Purgatory:Time? You think that will help?
Huh? Scripture is scripture. You expect scripture to say somewhere. "This is scripture" And maybe in another book, (which is not one of the 66) will say somewhere, "This is not scripture."
Give me a brake.
Now you’re not making any sense.
Psalm 66:12 (RSV) Thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place.
This verse was considered a proof of purgatory by Origen and St. Ambrose, who posits the water of baptism and the fire of purgatory.
Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning. (cf. 1:25-26; 6:5-7; Ecc 12:14)
St. Augustine, in the 20th Book of his City of God, chapter 25, interprets this as purgatory. The preceding verse refers to the saved (“called holy” and “recorded for life”) and verses 5 and 6 describe the repose of the blessed.
Micah 7:9 I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me forth to the light; I shall behold his deliverance. (cf. Lev 26:41, 43; Job 40:4-5; Lam 3:39)
St. Jerome considered this verse a clear proof of purgatory.
Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.
Origen, St. Irenaeus, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and St. Jerome all thought this was a description of purgatory.
2 Maccabees 12:44-45 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. [45] But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (cf. 1 Cor 15:29)
The Jews offered atonement and prayer for their deceased brethren, who had clearly violated Mosaic Law. Such a practice presupposes purgatory, since those in heaven wouldn’t need any help, and those in hell are beyond it.
Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, “You fool!” shall be liable to the hell of fire.
St. Francis de Sales commented:
It is only the third sort of offence which is punished with hell; therefore in the judgment of God after this life there are other pains which are not eternal or infernal, — these are the pains of Purgatory.
Matthew 5:26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.
The “prison” alluded to in verse 25 is purgatory, according to Tertullian, St. Cyprian, Origen, St. Ambrose, and St. Jerome, while the “penny” represents the most minor sins that one commits.
Matthew 12:32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
If this sin cannot be forgiven after death, it follows that there are others which can be, and this must be in purgatory: precisely the interpretation of St. Augustine, Pope St. Gregory the Great, the Venerable Bede, and St. Bernard, among others.
1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw – [13] each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. [14] If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. [15] If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
This is a clear and obvious allusion to purgatory. Thus thought St. Cyprian, St. Ambrose, St. Jerome, Pope St. Gregory the Great, Origen, and St. Augustine, who wrote with his usual insight:
ecause it is said, he shall be saved, that fire is thought lightly of. For all that, though we should be saved by fire, yet will that fire be more grievous than anything that man can suffer in this life whatsoever. (Expositions on the Psalms, 38, 2)
Hebrews 12:14 Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. (cf. 12:1, 5-11, 15, 23, Eph 5:5; 1 Thess 4:3; 1 Jn 3:2-3)
Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman observed (as an Anglican):
Even supposing a man of unholy life were suffered to enter heaven, he would not be happy there; so that it would be no mercy to permit him to enter . . . There is a moral malady which disorders the inward sight and taste; and no man labouring under it is in a condition to enjoy what Scripture calls the fulness of joy in God’s presence, . . . (Sermon on this verse: “Holiness Necessary for Future Blessedness,” 1834)
Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practises abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
The abundance of scriptural evidence for purgatory led to a consensus among the Church fathers: summarized by Protestant church historian Philip Schaff:
These views of the middle state in connection with prayers for the dead show a strong tendency to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory. (History of the Christian Church, vol. 2, “Ante-Nicene Christianity: A. D. 100-325,” 5th edition, New York: 1889; ch. 12, sec. 156, 604-606)
Good thief promised paradise yet is still suffering the just punishment of His sins.
Lk 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Revelation 21:27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Isa 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.
6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Matthew 12:32
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Shall some sins can be forgiven in the world to come and it can’t be heaven cos no unclean thing can enter there.
The children of Israel in bondage down in Egypt are a type of purgatory as the promised land is a type of heaven:
Isa 6:3 3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory!
Where does it teach a man should not get married if he becomes a priest?Time? You think that will help?
Huh? Scripture is scripture. You expect scripture to say somewhere. "This is scripture" And maybe in another book, (which is not one of the 66) will say somewhere, "This is not scripture."
Give me a brake.
Now your not making any sense.
Celibacy is a discipline, and discipline and administration are of human wisdom and not dogma.
Wisdom inspires a man to be dedicated or consecrated entirely to God 100 percent with no divided loyalty, or when a man is dying and needs a priest in the middle of the night would it be better to get up and go and serve or have a wife little children and family to care for and think about, but there are some rites where priests marry, Paul prefers celibacy especially in the missionaries.
Missionaries regularly are martyrs so celibacy is a blessing!
Thanks
Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.Time? You think that will help?
Huh? Scripture is scripture. You expect scripture to say somewhere. "This is scripture" And maybe in another book, (which is not one of the 66) will say somewhere, "This is not scripture."
Give me a brake.
Now you’re not making any sense.
Vicar of Christ means Christ acts thru men
Christ appointed the kingdom to be administered by Peter and the apostles Lk 22:29
Matt 16:18-19 Matt 28:19 Jn 29:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Christ is the only head of the church yes, but Peter acts on His behalf as His personal representative, Christ acts vicariously thru Peter and His successors. Hence the vicar of Christ.
Peter received the “keys of the kingdom” jurisdictional authority to govern the church with the apostles until Christ returns. Matt 16:18-19
This same authority belong to the successors of Moses, Matt 23:1-3 and Christ demanded that it be obeyed, then it was taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles.
Matt 21:43 Matt 16:18-19 18:18 Matt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 16:13 Jn 21:21 Jn 13:20 acts 20:28 heb 13:7-17
A cathedral to this day is called the “seat” of the bishop. The seat of authority.
Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.
The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 acts 2:42 eph 5:32
Thanks
You said it must be in scripture.Time? You think that will help?
Huh? Scripture is scripture. You expect scripture to say somewhere. "This is scripture" And maybe in another book, (which is not one of the 66) will say somewhere, "This is not scripture."
Give me a brake.
Now your not making any sense.
Why does it need be in scripture?
Where in the Bible does it say that everything Christ did and taught, or everything we are to believe is restricted to the Bible. (read John 21:25, that says that not everything Christ did and taught is in the Bible. Yet Matt. 28:20 has Christ commanding the Apostles to teach all that He taught them. In fact, the New Testament wasn't decided until the late 4th century, when the Catholic Church went through over 300+ documents, praying to the Holy Spirit for guidance, and coming up with the 27 books we all agree on are the New Testament.
Illuminator
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The Eucharistic Sacrifice in the Upper Room is one and the same sacrifice as the Crucifixion.
Illuminator
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"RCC" is a slur, there was no "RCC" at the Synod of Hippo and the Council of Carthage in 397 A.D. when all the books of the Bible were canonized by Catholic bishops.
A Visual Diagram of the History of the New Testament Canon
Sources for New Testament Canon Chart (all Protestant):
1) J. D. Douglas, editor, New Bible Dictionary, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1962 edition, 194-198.
2) F. L. Cross and E. A. Livingstone, editors, The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, Oxford: Oxford Univ. Press, 2nd edition, 1983, 232, 300, 309-10, 626, 641, 724, 1049, 1069.
3) Norman L. Geisler & William E. Nix, From God to Us: How We Got Our Bible, Chicago: Moody Press, 1974, 109-12, 117-125.
Anti-Catholics disagree with their own dictionaries and reference manuals, that makes them true Protestants.
Illuminator
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Protestants do, of course, accept the traditional canon of the New Testament (albeit somewhat inconsistently and with partial reluctance — Luther questioned the full canonicity of James, Revelation and other books). By doing so, they necessarily acknowledged the authority of the Catholic Church. If they had not, it is likely that Protestantism would have gone the way of all the old heresies of the first millennium of the Church Age — degenerating into insignificant, bizarre cults and disappearing into the putrid backwaters of history.
Carbon
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Again. Where does it teach in scripture to call a man "holy father."
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How do you figure that? And do not post a link. Do not quote outside sources. Do not copy and paste from another source. Use the scriptures just as I did and show your work and tell me how you arrive at that conclusion. That is what a discussion is. I am not having a discussion with links and copy/paste and the writings of others or of the Catholic church. I am having a conversation with you.
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Exactly! I'm not into the copy and paste also. I wonder if they have anything of themselves to share. Guess we will see.
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As usual you change the post you are responding to so you have an answer to the changed post, and continue as though that is what was said; And then post reams of scripture that the Catholic religion has interpreted for you and therefore carries only that interpretation and means nothing to support what you claim.
What was said referenced calling a man Holy Father. Not father.
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- 5,735
- Reaction score
- 3,976
- Points
- 113
- Faith
- Christian/Reformed
- Country
- US
- Politics
- conservative
If the evidence of history of the thread is taken into consideration, my answer is no.Exactly! I'm not into the copy and paste also. I wonder if they have anything of themselves to share. Guess we will see.
See post #165.
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