Is anyone planning on...............

[Arial]

Then who is?

There is no apostolic church. Apostolic church refers to the teachings of the apostles in the first century as its foundation was being laid. It is laid. They laid it. If you do not know what that means, ask.

There are only churches that keep that teaching faithfully and those who do not. The RC does not as it adds to that foundation with the doctrines of men. Just as the Pharisees and scribes added to God's law, and devises its own means of approaching God.

 

[Frank Robert]

There is no apostolic church. Apostolic church refers to the teachings of the apostles in the first century as its foundation was being laid. It is laid. They laid it. If you do not know what that means, ask.

There are only churches that keep that teaching faithfully and those who do not. The RC does not as it adds to that foundation with the doctrines of men. Just as the Pharisees and scribes added to God's law, and devises its own means of approaching God.

You are entitled to your opinions even incorrect ones.

The Creed: One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church | Simply Catholic

The Creed, having spent the majority of its time reflecting on the substance of our life — the Trinity — turns to focus on God’s relationship with the world. This is done by specifically looking

www.simplycatholic.com

To be Catholic means to be for the whole of humanity. The Church is apostolic. The Church's existence is rooted in the apostles, upon whom Jesus established his Church. These apostles ensure what Christ hands on to them is handed on continuously through apostolic succession in the ministry of the bishops.​

 

[Arial]

You are entitled to your opinions even incorrect ones.

The Creed: One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church | Simply Catholic

The Creed, having spent the majority of its time reflecting on the substance of our life — the Trinity — turns to focus on God’s relationship with the world. This is done by specifically looking

www.simplycatholic.com

To be Catholic means to be for the whole of humanity. The Church is apostolic. The Church's existence is rooted in the apostles, upon whom Jesus established his Church. These apostles ensure what Christ hands on to them is handed on continuously through apostolic succession in the ministry of the bishops.​

A link given to prove the Catholic view of what the apostolic church is, and that they are it, from a Catholic source, does nothing to support your position. It is more of the Catholic church bearing witness to itself, with no support for or defense of said position. I see that the Catholic posters on here have difficulty finding their own words of defense without relying on the "official" words of others of the same faith. A great deal of copy and paste and links to other sources----all of which come from the same witness of itself.

 

[Frank Robert]

A link given to prove the Catholic view of what the apostolic church is, and that they are it, from a Catholic source, does nothing to support your position. It is more of the Catholic church bearing witness to itself, with no support for or defense of said position. I see that the Catholic posters on here have difficulty finding their own words of defense without relying on the "official" words of others of the same faith. A great deal of copy and paste and links to other sources----all of which come from the same witness of itself.

You are confusing education with conversion. Attempting to educate others to what Catholics believe is not an attempt to convert you.

“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.” - Fulton J. Sheen

 

[Eleanor]

From Catholic Answers website:

You said, I think they've changed their mind to agree with salvation by faith alone, not by works.

At least in some quarters.

Documentation please

From Catholic Answers website:

Question:
Why does the Roman Catholic Church teach the doctrine of "works righteousness," that through good works one can earn salvation?

Answer:​

The Catholic Church has never taught such a doctrine and, in fact, has constantly condemned the notion that men can earn or merit salvation. Catholic soteriology (salvation theology) is rooted in apostolic Tradition and Scripture and says that it is only by God’s grace—completely unmerited by works—that one is saved.

 

[Arial]

You have not responded to #109?

I would go through my posts to you and quote all the questions you have not answered and all the content you ignore to focus on only one thing, but it is not worth the trouble. I never saw this post. Also I am under no obligation to respond should I tire of the conversation in which posters only use their religion as the only witness to what they say, instead of actually examining the scriptures.

Acts 1:15-26
Mathias is a successor!

Proof acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Acts 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

Peter plus eleven is twelve!

Judas is dead Paul not yet so Mathias makes twelve!

Matt 28:19 and acts 1:8 requires apostolic succession!

Acts 1:15-26. That in no way that teaches that the Catholic church is apostolic or that is the succession of the apostles with apostolic authority. It is nothing more than the Catholic interpretation of the scripture which is decidedly opposed to the rest of scripture on the subject, and in spite of what it claims, is not the lone authority on Bible interpretation.

It was necessary according to God's eternal plan that there be 12 apostles. One could go into the meaning of the number 12 in much of scripture to investigate that, but this is not the place to do it. Judas was replaced. There is not a single valid cause to take such a giant leap into the Catholic conclusion that this passage means anything other than what it says, into saying what they do about apostolic succession in which they name themselves as apostles in essence, and give their religion apostolic authority.

Acts 6:2 Another giant leap from a historical fact concerning a particular situation and a particular group of people to saying it proves apostolic succession and we are it. The passage simply says that the apostles had a particular mission and purpose given by Jesus, and the details of caring for the needs of the people was distracting from that mission and appointment. So in much the same manner as Moses had to do in adjudicating legal complaints, they divided the workload among the people.

Matt 28:19; Acts 1:8 Matt 28:18-19 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations----
Haven't we already been over this passage in which you only give 19 while ignoring 18? It does not require apostolic succession at all. All it requires is believers spreading the gospel and those believers learn the foundation (teachings) of His church from the apostles---at that time through letters and preaching of the apostles and those trained through them and now through the record of those things that we have.

Acts 1:8 See above.

Now lets look at all the things you ignore in the Bible concerning apostles. Let it serve as an example of scripture interpreting scripture. Instead of of starting with a premise and then finding proof texts and interpreting them to support the premise.

Biblical requirements for being an apostle and what they do: Loosely translated it is one who God sends with a message He carries the authority of the Sender and is accountable to Him.

When it refers to the twelve, called disciples until after the resurrection and then called apostles, Judas being replaced by Matthias, it is a specific office with a specific mission. They were sent to spread the gospel and lay the foundation of His church. That is its teachings and doctrines for that is what we see them doing in the epistles. Eph 2:19-22 So you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In Him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.
1 Cor 3:10-15

An apostle, one of the 12 had to meet certain requirements as was discussed in replacing Judas. Acts 1:21-22. They had to have accompanied the twelve with Jesus during all of His time up to the ascension, and must be a witness to the resurrection. They had to have seen Jesus after the resurrection. (Acts 1: 22b). They needed to have been appointed by Jesus Himself. (1:24-25)

Paul is unique in that he did not travel with Jesus during His lifetime. But he did see Jesus after the resurrection and was appointed an apostle to the Gentiles by Jesus Himself. And he was taught by Jesus during his three year exile in Arabia. (Acts 9:20-25; Gal 1:11-12, 15-18)

 

[donadams]

Where does scripture teach Transubstantiation? Where does it teach a Purgatory? Where does it teach to sell offices? Where does it teach another man is the Vicar of Christ? Where does it teach to call another man, holy father? Where does it teach a man should not get married if he becomes a priest? Oh there is so, so much more.

Scripture interprets scripture, it is in perfect harmony with itself. It should, after all, it's God's word.

Here is one place where your organization is steering you wrong.

And who came up with this? Silly.

Give me time

I came up with that context or subject matter of the commandments
Scripture has no list of what is and what is not scripture!
No list of the Ten Commandments
And the word of God is not limited to scripture, the New Testament is the blood of Jesus!

 

[donadams]

Oh, don't worry yourself too much. It never happened. Your RCC is not reformed back to the bible.

No it just wrote the Bible!
The canon of scripture comes from the apostolic tradition of the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles

 

[donadams]

Not limited? Good grief, do you even know God?
Just one book of the 66 (and thanks for admitting it's 66 books) you can spend a lifetime in. 66 books does not limit God's word, there is more in them than you can even imagine.

Scripture is the final authority.

Where does scripture say so?
I thought Jesus Christ was the way the truth and the life! Jn 14:6

 

[donadams]

Faith alone don, that's scripture. Nothing added, no baptism, no works, and nothing it's not faith in Jesus plus this or that.

Sorry. Well, no I'm not sorry.

Hope this helps.

Then you reject Christ and scripture?

 

[donadams]

Well, man in his natural state can not know Him personally.

By being made alive, while were were still dead in our sins.
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Eph 2:1-10.

How do we do this?


Say what? What are you trying to make it say?


The only possibility of what? Please, explain.

How does scripture say these things of Mary?

 

[Carbon]

Give me time

Time? You think that will help?

I came up with that context or subject matter of the commandments
Scripture has no list of what is and what is not scripture!

Huh? Scripture is scripture. You expect scripture to say somewhere. "This is scripture" And maybe in another book, (which is not one of the 66) will say somewhere, "This is not scripture."
Give me a brake.

No list of the Ten Commandments
And the word of God is not limited to scripture, the New Testament is the blood of Jesus!

Now your not making any sense.

 

[Carbon]

No it just wrote the Bible!
The canon of scripture comes from the apostolic tradition of the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles

The RCC wrote the bible? Wow, I cant believe you would say such a thing.

 

[Arial]

You are confusing education with conversion. Attempting to educate others to what Catholics believe is not an attempt to convert you.

I reread my post and I could find nowhere it it where I so much as mentioned or alluded to an attempt to convert me. All I said was that the only witness of the Catholic doctrines is more self witnessing of itself. IOW do your own homework and show your work, without using Catholic teachings to do so. If the RC is teaching something it should easily be found in the scriptures without having to interpret the scriptures to fit its own premise. Why is it there is only deflecting and the use of logical fallacies of one form or another in response to to what I and others say, and never any facing the issue head on with integrity?

“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.” - Fulton J. Sheen

Here again you appeal (apropo of nothing I might add) to a supposed authority on what it states, and without any evidence or support or proof of what is being quoted. That is a logical fallacy.

 

[Carbon]

Then you reject Christ and scripture?

No friend, it is you who reject the word and Christ.

 

[donadams]

Nonsense!

Your church is engaged in idolatry, which is forbidden. This is blatant idolatry! Which is setting up something "in the stead of God" and it is also to esteem, honor, or serve something as if it were God Himself. You and your church should be ashamed of yourself, but you are not, but instead proud and arrogant.
Then your church goes on, to say God is present in another image, a wafer, a piece of bread. Your church also believes God is pleased with that, and is pleased to be served in such a manner. This is blatant idolatry again, your popes and church do this unashamed and right out in public for all to see. Your popes and church admit if the wafer is not truly God, then they are the most abominable idolaters of the world - which indeed the RCC is, for the wafer is not God.


Just like your worship of the deceased saints and Mary. These unholy practices were brought into the Church by pagans. The popes try to make a distinction between latreia and douleia.

They claim douleia is a service that one must render to angels and deceased saints. Latreia (Huperdouleia) is a service on a somewhat higher plane than the angels or dead saints. This they claim is to the human nature of Christ or the virgin Mary.

However, this nonsense is just a fabrication of popes and councils. This cannot be found among any Greek writings or in God;'s word. Scripture knows of no such distinction. Not only must God be servd with latreia, but also with douleia.

Consider Acts 20:19, serving (douleuon) the Lord with all humility and with tears and with trials that happened to me through the plots of the Jews;

Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve (douleuontes) the Lord. Romans 12:11.

If you care to look more into this, let me know.

Cannot give enough honor, devotion, and veneration to Mary!

Lk 2:32 a light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Jesus is the fruit of Mary!
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, Mary is the mother of the light of the world and if the son receives glory Mary receives glory, if the sin is holy Mary is holy!

A good tree cannot bear bad fruit!

If Jesus is the fruit of Mary and the glory of Israel then so is Mary!

A good tree must bear good fruit!

Honor of Mary!

Christ shares His glory with His saints.

Jn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, (Lk1:45)

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

2 Thessalonians 1:10
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

1 pet 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


Rom 13:7 honor Mary!

Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Lk 1:48 “all generations (Christians) shall call me blessed”!

If a man Honors his wife, and asks her to help him, and is Devoted to her, and gives her Veneration he MUST be worshipping her including adoration! Right?

Praise of Mary and the saints redounds to the glory of God and Christ, cos Mary and the saints are what God made them, it is His handiwork (Lk 1:49 Lk 1:28) and the graces they have received come from the merits of Christ’s passion and death. Jesus Christ is the source of all grace! Jn 1:16-17

Likewise an Attack on Mary and the saints, or the authority of the apostles or the apostolic church or the truths and doctrines revealed by Christ and taught by His one, holy, catholic & apostolic church is an attack on God and on Christ! And His teaching authority in the church by the successors of the apostles!
Acts 9:4 Eph 5:32

2 Thessalonians 1:10
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


————

Worship of Mary?

Mary is not God!
Mary is not a goddess!
Mary is not an idol!
Mary is not an object of worship!


Only God may be lawfully worshipped!

Worship requires intent!

Worship includes;

Offering of sacrifice:
Adoration:
Propitiatory reparation:
Petition / prayer
Thanksgiving

Prayer alone is not worship!
Thanksgiving alone is not worship!
Honor is not worship!
Veneration is not worship!
Love / devotion / dedication is not worship!

It’s not idolatry!

—————/
Misc.

The Lord came thru Mary!

Worked His first miracle thru her!

All grace comes thru Mary from Christ the source of all grace!
Jn 1:16-17



—————
Blessed!

Lk 1:28 says Mary is blessed; does anyone know why?



Lk 1:48 all generations (Christians) shall call me blessed.

If you don’t call Mary blessed then what are you saying in reality?


Handmaid of the Lord!

Luke 1:38
And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.


Domain of grace and salvation belongs to Mary

—————-

Good enough for Angels!
Good enough for the Bible!
Good enough for me!

Hail Mary! Full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women,
Lk 1:28 blessed is the fruit of thy womb, (Jesus) Lk 1:42 Holy Mary, mother of God, Lk 1:43 pray for us sinners, now,
rev 5:8 and at the hour of our death, Matt 24:13 amen!

It is really God who greeting Mary with the “Hail Mary”!
Lk 1:26 & Lk 1:45

Blessed art thou among all women! Lk 1:28 & Lk 1:45 & Lk 1:48

All generations shall call me blessed! Lk 1:48

A new song of thanksgiving for bringing our salvation!

And thanksgiving for the incarnation of Jesus Christ! The word was made flesh and dwelt among us thanks to Mary’s yes consenting to our salvation!

Philemon 1: 4 I thank my God, making mention of thee always in my prayers,

Anyone in the entire communion of saints can intercede for each other, including those who have gone before is marked with the sign of faith!

Philemon 1:4
Philemon 1:22

Jesus Christ is the Head of the church Eph 5:23 the only mediator 1 Tim 2:5 and chief intercessor, makes intercession for the saints! (The church) Rom 8:26-27 8:34 heb 7:25

The saints also make intercession!

1 Timothy 2:1
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Revelation 8:3
And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Revelation 8:4
And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

James 5:16 …The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. How much more the Mother of God? Christ honors Mary! Honor Thy father and mother!

Jn 11:25 (the saints are alive) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Lk 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

All generations call me blessed! Lk 1:
Thanksgiving in praise of Mary for bearing our savior! Matt 1:23 And finding our salvation! Lk 1:30

Praise honor veneration and devotion redound to the Glory of God who created Mary immaculate Lk 1:49 as Christ source of all grace! Jn 1:16-17

Praise, honor, veneration, and devotion are not worship, worship requires intent!

Thanks

 

[donadams]

A prime example of an apostate church. Nice job.

How?

 

[Carbon]

Cannot give enough honor, devotion, and veneration to Mary!

Lk 2:32 a light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Jesus is the fruit of Mary!
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, Mary is the mother of the light of the world and if the son receives glory Mary receives glory, if the sin is holy Mary is holy!

A good tree cannot bear bad fruit!

If Jesus is the fruit of Mary and the glory of Israel then so is Mary!

A good tree must bear good fruit!

Honor of Mary!

Christ shares His glory with His saints.

Jn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, (Lk1:45)

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

2 Thessalonians 1:10
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

1 pet 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


Rom 13:7 honor Mary!

Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Lk 1:48 “all generations (Christians) shall call me blessed”!

If a man Honors his wife, and asks her to help him, and is Devoted to her, and gives her Veneration he MUST be worshipping her including adoration! Right?

Praise of Mary and the saints redounds to the glory of God and Christ, cos Mary and the saints are what God made them, it is His handiwork (Lk 1:49 Lk 1:28) and the graces they have received come from the merits of Christ’s passion and death. Jesus Christ is the source of all grace! Jn 1:16-17

Likewise an Attack on Mary and the saints, or the authority of the apostles or the apostolic church or the truths and doctrines revealed by Christ and taught by His one, holy, catholic & apostolic church is an attack on God and on Christ! And His teaching authority in the church by the successors of the apostles!
Acts 9:4 Eph 5:32

2 Thessalonians 1:10
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


————

Worship of Mary?

Mary is not God!
Mary is not a goddess!
Mary is not an idol!
Mary is not an object of worship!


Only God may be lawfully worshipped!

Worship requires intent!

Worship includes;

Offering of sacrifice:
Adoration:
Propitiatory reparation:
Petition / prayer
Thanksgiving

Prayer alone is not worship!
Thanksgiving alone is not worship!
Honor is not worship!
Veneration is not worship!
Love / devotion / dedication is not worship!

It’s not idolatry!

—————/
Misc.

The Lord came thru Mary!

Worked His first miracle thru her!

All grace comes thru Mary from Christ the source of all grace!
Jn 1:16-17



—————
Blessed!

Lk 1:28 says Mary is blessed; does anyone know why?



Lk 1:48 all generations (Christians) shall call me blessed.

If you don’t call Mary blessed then what are you saying in reality?


Handmaid of the Lord!

Luke 1:38
And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.


Domain of grace and salvation belongs to Mary

—————-

Good enough for Angels!
Good enough for the Bible!
Good enough for me!

Hail Mary! Full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women,
Lk 1:28 blessed is the fruit of thy womb, (Jesus) Lk 1:42 Holy Mary, mother of God, Lk 1:43 pray for us sinners, now,
rev 5:8 and at the hour of our death, Matt 24:13 amen!

It is really God who greeting Mary with the “Hail Mary”!
Lk 1:26 & Lk 1:45

Blessed art thou among all women! Lk 1:28 & Lk 1:45 & Lk 1:48

All generations shall call me blessed! Lk 1:48

A new song of thanksgiving for bringing our salvation!

And thanksgiving for the incarnation of Jesus Christ! The word was made flesh and dwelt among us thanks to Mary’s yes consenting to our salvation!

Philemon 1: 4 I thank my God, making mention of thee always in my prayers,

Anyone in the entire communion of saints can intercede for each other, including those who have gone before is marked with the sign of faith!

Philemon 1:4
Philemon 1:22

Jesus Christ is the Head of the church Eph 5:23 the only mediator 1 Tim 2:5 and chief intercessor, makes intercession for the saints! (The church) Rom 8:26-27 8:34 heb 7:25

The saints also make intercession!

1 Timothy 2:1
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Revelation 8:3
And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Revelation 8:4
And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

James 5:16 …The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. How much more the Mother of God? Christ honors Mary! Honor Thy father and mother!

Jn 11:25 (the saints are alive) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Lk 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

All generations call me blessed! Lk 1:
Thanksgiving in praise of Mary for bearing our savior! Matt 1:23 And finding our salvation! Lk 1:30

Praise honor veneration and devotion redound to the Glory of God who created Mary immaculate Lk 1:49 as Christ source of all grace! Jn 1:16-17

Praise, honor, veneration, and devotion are not worship, worship requires intent!

Thanks

Do you have something you wish to discuss? Or do you just want to copy and paste? I'm not into the copy and paste thing.. Sorry.

 

[donadams]

So you reject the words of Christ and the scripture and say the apostles ended?

 

[donadams]

From Catholic Answers website:

From Catholic Answers website:

Question:
Why does the Roman Catholic Church teach the doctrine of "works righteousness," that through good works one can earn salvation?

Answer:​

The Catholic Church has never taught such a doctrine and, in fact, has constantly condemned the notion that men can earn or merit salvation. Catholic soteriology (salvation theology) is rooted in apostolic Tradition and Scripture and says that it is only by God’s grace—completely unmerited by works—that one is saved.

Why did you change it from “faith alone” to earning salvation?

Not works alone or natural works
Or works of the law

Grace and union with Christ the mediator in the covenant of His blood by faith and baptism are required

Scripture verses that opposes “Faith alone”!

Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 water & the spirit
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
acts 2:38-39 repentance & baptism
acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
acts 22:16 name of the Lord & baptism
rom 10:10 faith & confession
1 cor 13:2 faith & charity
1 cor 13:13 faith, hope, & charity
1 cor 16:22 love of Jesus Christ
Rom 8:17 faith and suffering
2 Timothy 2:12
1 thes 1:3 faith, love, patience / 2 thes 1:4 / 1 Tim 6:11 /
Col 1:24 sufferings
Philemon 1:5 love and faith
Phil 1:29 called to suffer not faith alone
Titus 2:2 faith, love, patience
James 2:24 faith & works
Heb 6:12 faith & patience / rev 13:10
Rev 2:19 works, charity, service, faith, patience
Rev 12:17 testimony of Jesus & commandments
Rev 2:19 & rev 13:10 & Rev 14:12 commandments & patience
Three things are eternal! 1 cor 13:13

Faith, Hope, & Charity!

Repentance required:
(Not faith alone)

Matt 3:2
Matt 3:8
Matt 4:17
Matt 9:13
Mk 1:15
Mk 6:12
Lk 13:3
Lk 24:47
Acts 2:38
Acts 3:19
Acts 17:30
Acts 26:20
2 pet 3:9

Note: these are not complete lists
Still a work in progress

Dogma on grace


109. There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will.
110. There is a supernatural influence of God in the faculties of the soul which coincides in time with man’s free act of will.
111. For every salutary act internal supernatural grace of God (gratia elevans) is absolutely necessary.
112. Internal supernatural grace is absolutely necessary for the beginning of faith and of salvation.
113. Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification.
114. The justified person is not able for his whole life long to avoid all sins, even venial sins,
without the special privilege of the grace of God.
115. Even in the fallen state, man can, by his natural intellectual power, know religious and moral
truths.
116. For the performance of a morally good action Sanctifying Grace is not required.
117. In the state of fallen nature it is morally impossible for man without Supernatural Revelation,
to know easily, with absolute certainty and without admixture of error, all religious and
moral truths of the natural order.
118. Grace cannot be merited by natural works either de condigno or de congruo.
119. God gives all the just sufficient grace (gratia proxime vel remote sufficiens) for the
observation of the Divine Commandments.
120. God, by His Eternal Resolve of Will, has predetermined certain men to eternal blessedness.
121. God, by an Eternal Resolve of His Will, predestines certain men, on account of their foreseen
sins, to eternal rejection.
122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.
123. There is a grace which is truly sufficient and yet remains inefficacious (gratia vere et mere
sufficiens).
124. The sinner can and must prepare himself by the help of actual grace for the reception of the
grace by which he is justified.
125. The justification of an adult is not possible without Faith.
126. Besides faith, further acts of disposition must be present.
127. Sanctifying grace sanctifies the soul.
128. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a friend of God.
129. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a child of God and gives him a claim to the inheritance
of Heaven.
130. The three Divine or Theological Virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity are infused with
Sanctifying grace.
131. Without special Divine Revelation no one can know with the certainty of faith, if he be in the
state of grace.
132. The degree of justifying grace is not identical in all the just.
133. Grace can be increased by good works.
134. The grace by which we are justified may be lost, and is lost by every grievous [mortal,
serious] sin.
135. By his good works the justified man really acquires a claim to supernatural reward from
God.
136. A just man merits for himself through each good work an increase of sanctifying grace,
eternal life (if he dies in a state of grace) and an increase of heavenly glory.

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