I chose God..Or God chose me...

[Eleanor]

God chose the nation of Israel, the Jews to obey follow and obey Him yet they failed. God choosing doesn't equate to following Him.

Choosing to salvation does.

The Jews were not nationally chosen to salvation, but to God's called-out assembly.
Those chosen to salvation follow him.

They disobeyed Him and followed after foreign gods. That was an act of their wills to disobey Him. Their hearts turned towards the false gods of the other nations. So just because God chooses a person and they are "elect" just like Israel does not mean a person is saved.

So were they regenerated in the O.T. or not ?

Those who believed in the Promise (Ge 15:5, seed; Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) were regenerated.

 

[Eleanor]

Those who believed in the Promise (Ge 15:5, seed; Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) were regenerated, but they were not indwelt.

 

[Eleanor]

They weren’t permanently indwelled, how could they be?

The OT saints were regenerated by the Holy Spirit, but not indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Eleanor]

God does not save one and then remove His Spirit.

It doesn't require indwelling by the Spirit to remain regenerated by the Spirit and in good standing with God.

 

[Eleanor]

That is because unrepentant saints and former believers are left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event for not being reday as described below.

Which has been demonstrated to be contra-NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church.

 

[makesends]

How can those in the OT have been birthed permanently in the Spirit?

Didn’t Jesus have to die first, before any birth could take place?

It is not the animal sacrifices that saved them, but Christ's sacrifice. WHEN it happened is irrelevant (from God's POV) as to how it affected this temporal existence. It is the FACT of it, not the arrangement of it.

Consider 1 John 1:9. By the Greek, (from a professional Koine Greek scholar of my acquaintance) it should be translated what doesn't flow nicely in our language and way of thinking: "If we may be confessing our sins, he is faithful and just to have already forgiven us our sins..." Completed action in the past (at Calvary, to be precise) contingent on present continuous action. We are assured that God forgave us through Christ. Fine. But once we are forgiven, what is there to make us think we are NOT forgiven in any subsequent sinfulness found in us? Nothing. WHEN we were forgiven is irrelevant as to whether we are forgiven.


For those who like to claim the Spirit did not come until Pentecost —OK, have it your way. But how does that mean that the Spirit of God didn't regenerate those elect of the Old Testament, by taking up residence within them the same way as in the New Testament and later? Regeneration is not a time-dependent event. It is only fact, and done by God himself.

 

[Carbon]

It is not the animal sacrifices that saved them, but Christ's sacrifice. WHEN it happened is irrelevant (from God's POV) as to how it affected this temporal existence. It is the FACT of it, not the arrangement of it.

Consider 1 John 1:9. By the Greek, (from a professional Koine Greek scholar of my acquaintance) it should be translated what doesn't flow nicely in our language and way of thinking: "If we may be confessing our sins, he is faithful and just to have already forgiven us our sins..." Completed action in the past (at Calvary, to be precise) contingent on present continuous action. We are assured that God forgave us through Christ. Fine. But once we are forgiven, what is there to make us think we are NOT forgiven in any subsequent sinfulness found in us? Nothing. WHEN we were forgiven is irrelevant as to whether we are forgiven.

For those who like to claim the Spirit did not come until Pentecost —OK, have it your way. But how does that mean that the Spirit of God didn't regenerate those elect of the Old Testament, by taking up residence within them the same way as in the New Testament and later? Regeneration is not a time-dependent event. It is only fact, and done by God himself.

Amen brother!

 

[makesends]

It doesn't require indwelling by the Spirit to remain regenerated by the Spirit and in good standing with God.

I agree as to the status of the regenerate. BUT...

Are you saying that once the Spirit has done his work it is now our work and he is no longer needed to sustain it? How can that be? The very nature of what we are become is by his continuing presence, I think. (Hence, my argument, back when, of the 'monergism in our continuing sanctification'.

 

[ChristB4us]

Which has been demonstrated to be contra-NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church.

In your point of view for why I ay you are not rightly dividing the word of truth because those scripture I cite, you cannot answer for them nor make them align with the scriptures you cite for that point of view.

 

[makesends]

In your point of view for why I ay you are not rightly dividing the word of truth because those scripture I cite, you cannot answer for them nor make them align with the scriptures you cite for that point of view.

But what comes across is that you (and your dispensationalist brethren) have laid claim to that verse as your own, which then means it cannot be describe those who don't divide things the way you do.

 

[fastfredy0]

I never chose God, he chose me...I never chose to be birthed in the Spirit.
Thoughts please?
Does the living word of God teach that we can choose to be birthed in the Spirit?

There are 75ish verses saying God chose us or used synonyms for chose like Elected, chose, appointed, predestined, “known by God” and foreknowledge or logical inferences

Psalm 65:4 Psalm 106:4-5 Psalm 139:16 Isaiah 41:9 Malachi 1:2-3 Matthew 11:21 Matthew 11:25 Matthew 11:27 Matthew 13:11 Matthew 15:13 Matthew 20:1-16 Matthew 21:43 Matthew 22:14 Matthew 24:24 Matthew 24:31 Mark 13:20
yahda, yahda, yahda
Who controls your desires? God controlling you as a necessary consequence of your very existence. God is not just your creator but he's your sustainer (see preservation, Acts 17:28a, Colossians 1:17, Hebrews 1:3, Romans 11:36, Job 34:14-15) and he's your sustainer at all moments so he has caused you to come into existence when He created you and He causes you to continue to exist as He sustains you. Is anybody going dare say that God is not in control of his own sustaining power. He was in control of how He created things. He was in control of precisely the way in which his creative power brought things into existence … why would it not logically follow then that God is in absolute control of His sustaining power and the way He keeps things in existence and if that truth is applicable to every particle of your existence that would include your will, your thoughts, your choices, your emotions, all of you. This points out a false assumption on the “free will” side that God can somehow create things that he does not control. Colin Sketo

 

[Ritajanice]

The OT saints were regenerated by the Holy Spirit, but not indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

What does that mean exactly....they were regenerated......yet, not indwelt?

As far as I know/ read, there was no indwelling, not until Pentecost, as Jesus had to give up His Spirit?

A Born Again is “ Birthed in the Spirit “.....that’s when the Holy Spirit takes up permanent residence, as it’s a “Living” Spiritual birth, that only God can do through the Spirit.....it’s God, again through the Spirit ,that opens up the heart for a believer to receive that new heart* spirit within.

 

[Ritajanice]

For those who like to claim the Spirit did not come until Pentecost —OK, have it your way. But how does that mean that the Spirit of God didn't regenerate those elect of the Old Testament, by taking up residence within them the same way as in the New Testament and later? Regeneration is not a time-dependent event. It is only fact, and done by God himself.

What’s the difference between being birthed in the Spirit.....and being regenerated?

How could God as he was, before Jesus gave up His Spirit at Pentecost..... birth someone in the OT?

My opinion and belief is...he couldn’t, why, because Jesus had to die, so that the Spirit of God could indwell his children permanently,...therefore in the OT, they weren’t indwelled permanently....how could they be?

That’s why I ask the question....what’s the difference between regenerated and being birthed in the Spirit?

What was the point of Pentecost....why did Jesus have to die?
Regeneration means...online source.
Spiritually, it means that God brings a person to new life (that they are "born again") from a previous state of separation from God and subjection to the decay of death (Ephesians 2:5).

2 Corinthians 5:21​

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New International Version​

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21 God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[Carbon]

What does that mean exactly....they were regenerated......yet, not indwelt?

Of course, they were indwelt.

 

[Fred]

Does God choose us in order for us to choose Him?

 

[Ritajanice]

It doesn't require indwelling by the Spirit to remain regenerated by the Spirit and in good standing with God.

@Carbon...not according to @Eleanor

I’m very careful not to say...of course they were indwelled.....where is scripture to say they were permanently indwelled?...if that’s what you are saying.

Her post is making sense to me in a way,,,because how could God as he is, in the OT..permanently indwell a believer?..how could he come down as he is and indwell a believer in the OT?

Why didn’t Nicodemus understand Jesus when he said to him ,you must be Born Again?

Why did Jesus have to die ....as that’s the only way in the NT, that we can receive the Spirit of Christ and become Born Again/ Birthed in the Spirit?

 

[makesends]

What’s the difference between being birthed in the Spirit.....and being regenerated?

In my opinion, same thing. No difference.

How could God as he was, before Jesus gave up His Spirit at Pentecost..... birth someone in the OT?

Jesus "gave up His Spirit at Pentecost"?

My opinion and belief is...he couldn’t, why, because Jesus had to die, so that the Spirit of God could indwell his children permanently,...therefore in the OT, they weren’t indwelled permanently....how could they be?

That’s why I ask the question....what’s the difference between regenerated and being birthed in the Spirit?

What was the point of Pentecost....why did Jesus have to die?

The point of Pentecost is not the reason Jesus had to die. —two questions? Ok, 1. the point of (reason for?) Pentecost was fulfillment of Scripture, and a striking sign of a difference between the old way and the new, and for the very practical immediate purpose of people hearing the truth in their own language. 2. Not sure why you would ask why Jesus had to die. But, to save us from our sin. To take our place. Many other similar phrases.

Regeneration means...online source.
Spiritually, it means that God brings a person to new life (that they are "born again") from a previous state of separation from God and subjection to the decay of death (Ephesians 2:5).

2 Corinthians 5:21​

​

New International Version​

​

​

21 God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[Carbon]

@Carbon...not according to @Eleanor

Okay.

I’m very careful not to say...of course they were indwelled.....where is scripture to say they were permanently indwelled?...if that’s what you are saying.

How would you do if the Holy Spirit did not indwell you? Even with the Spirit indwelling us, we still sin. Consider Paul in Romans 7.

Do you think you could live the believer's life without the Spirit?

If not, how do you suppose an OT saint could live the believer's life without the Spirit?

Her post is making sense to me in a way,,,because how could God as he is, in the OT..permanently indwell a believer?..how could he come down as he is and indwell a believer in the OT?

Not sure what you mean by how?
Are you saying God is limited in what He can and cannot do?

Why didn’t Nicodemus understand Jesus when he said to him ,you must be Born Again?

No one understands everything. So, why does Nicodemus have to?

 

[makesends]

Does God choose us in order for us to choose Him?

Not sure what you mean by the question. If you mean to ask whether any choose him, without him first choosing them —no, none do.

But if the direction of your question is into the notion that God's whole purpose for choosing us is so that we would subsequently choose him —no, there is much more to why he chose us than just that.

 

[Ritajanice]

In my opinion, same thing. No difference.

Jesus "gave up His Spirit at Pentecost"?

The point of Pentecost is not the reason Jesus had to die. —two questions? Ok, 1. the point of (reason for?) Pentecost was fulfillment of Scripture, and a striking sign of a difference between the old way and the new, and for the very practical immediate purpose of people hearing the truth in their own language. 2. Not sure why you would ask why Jesus had to die. But, to save us from our sin. To take our place. Many other similar phrases.

Of course there was a reason why Jesus had to die.

How else could we receive the Spirit of Christ....?.he had to die, to take our sins.....he was the living sacrifice , God’s only Son..who knew no sin....therefore that is our only way back to God....which is through Jesus...Holy Spirit...being birthed by his Spirit.