I chose God..Or God chose me...

[David1701]

God chose you first by His grace and you responded by choosing to believe in the gospel for your salvation.

Please show where the Bible says that faith is a choice, thanks.

 

[civic]

God chose the Jews to bring his salvation through Christ.

For what I just stated.

Because not all the Jews of national Israel are spiritual Jews.

I think you can see why by what I wrote. Though God does keep a remnant.

Of course.

If they are elect (not talking about the nation of Israel), they will be saved. Or, it would be God who fails.

Of course. Even dispensationalists believe that.

how does the regenerate serve false gods and God destroys them in the wilderness ?

 

[Ritajanice]

Sister, you're on the right track. Everyone who is saved or was saved we saved the exact same way. OT or NT.

How can those in the OT have been birthed permanently in the Spirit?

Didn’t Jesus have to die first, before any birth could take place?

 

[Carbon]

Please show where the Bible says that faith is a choice, thanks.

Exactly.

 

[civic]

Please show where the Bible says that faith is a choice, thanks.

hey guys/gals lighten up a bit I can't keep up rofl...........

 

[Carbon]

how does the regenerate serve false gods and God destroys them in the wilderness ?

To you, the elect is the nation Israel. I'm not a dispensationalist. You do know the difference? If not, we should probably stop this thread for now, go to another and discuss these, because all it will do is confuse those who do not have a good understanding of these things.

 

[Ritajanice]

To you, the elect is the nation Israel. I'm not a dispensationalist. You do know the difference? If not, we should probably stop this thread for now, go to another and discuss these, because all it will do is confuse those who do not have a good understanding of these things.

Yes,I agree.. I’m out for the moment....

 

[Carbon]

How can those in the OT have been birthed permanently in the Spirit?

Didn’t Jesus have to die first, before any birth could take place?

Those in the OT had faith in the future Messiah, Jesus. We have faith in the Messiah who came 2000 years ago. They believed in the messiah through all the types and shadows, prophecy and teachings.

 

[Ritajanice]

Those in the OT had faith in the future Messiah, Jesus. We have faith in the Messiah who came 2000 years ago. They believed in the messiah through all the types and shadows.

Ok....but they weren’t birthed in the Spirit were they?...permanently?

Sorry I said I was out,...I best take a break, I need to slow down .be back later....

 

[Carbon]

Ok....but they weren’t birthed in the Spirit were they?...permanently?

Sorry I said I was out,...I best take a break, I need to slow down .

God does not save one and then remove His Spirit.

 

[Ritajanice]

God does not save one and then remove His Spirit.

I know that.

I’m talking about those in the OT....God permanently indwelt them?

I’m trying to understand....it was very different in the OT...than it is today that’s for sure?

Look how he spoke to Paul...I’m trying to get my head round that....he didn’t permanently indwell his heart...but, he spoke to his Spirit?

So, God spoke to them differently in the OT...than he speaks to us today, as it’s all done through the Holy Spirit.....still powerful though. and there is no mistaking that spiritual birth.

 

[Carbon]

I know that.

I’m talking about those in the OT....God permanently indwelt them?

I’m trying to understand....it was very different in the OT...than it is today that’s for sure?

Look how he spoke to Paul...I’m trying to get my head round that....he didn’t permanently indwell his heart...but, he spoke to his Spirit?

take a few minutes and read this article, I think this will help explain. Or listen to it.

Did Old Testament believers possess the Holy Spirit the same way as the New Testament believers?

Ligonier Ministries, founded by R.C. Sproul, exists to proclaim, teach, and defend the holiness of God in all its fullness to as many people as possible.

www.ligonier.org

 

[Ritajanice]

take a few minutes and read this article, I think this will help explain. Or listen to it.

Did Old Testament believers possess the Holy Spirit the same way as the New Testament believers?

Ligonier Ministries, founded by R.C. Sproul, exists to proclaim, teach, and defend the holiness of God in all its fullness to as many people as possible.

www.ligonier.org

Ok, I will do that, I also edited my previous post...thanks for posting that information, I appreciate it.thats me out now...thanks everyone for the discussion....I’m learning so much.

 

[David1701]

How can those in the OT have been birthed permanently in the Spirit?

Didn’t Jesus have to die first, before any birth could take place?

The OT saints were born again, just like the NT saints. The biggest differences are that, in the NT, we're baptised in the Holy Spirit, into the body of Christ, and that the Holy Spirit's indwelling is permanent in us all.

The way that Jesus spoke to Nicodemus, in John 3, indicates that Nicodemus should have known about the need to be born again; and Nicodemus only had the OT.

John 3:3-10 (MKJV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus said to Him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again.
8 The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said to him, Are you the teacher of Israel and do not know these things?

 

[David1701]

hey guys/gals lighten up a bit I can't keep up rofl...........

It's okay, we'll wait for you.

 

[Eleanor]

Another way to consider it.

Every saving grace granted to man throughout history is a gift of our sovereign God's undeserved love. And in God's merciful plan of salvation, Christ occupied the place of central importance. Even in eternity, God did not conceive of salvation apart from Christ. God never intended to endow anyone with salvation irrespective of Christ. Far from it.
I'd say, in Ephesians 1 we are assured that Christians are blessed with every spiritual blessing because God had chosen them in Christ and foreordained them unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ.

It seems that in the mind of God, there was an eternal federal union between Christ and all those destined to become heirs of salvation in the course of time.

Can you see it as what Christ promised to do for the people whom the Father gave him in the COR, that the Father chose them for eternal life through Christ?

I see a further element at work.

I see God decreeing his own glory through the glory of his Son, in ransoming a slave whom the Father is preparing to be the bride of and
co-heir with his Son.

 

[Eleanor]

The "chosen testimony" is referring to His disciples that abide in him and His words to be fruitful.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
As it is; not every saved believer will continue to abide in Him & His words as His disciples; the chosen, as the elect.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

It is not a loss of salvation when those left behind are still saved and thus still His servants, but as many are called, few are chosen.

Fortunately, for those wayward saints left behind at the rapture event, they can still love Him since He first loved us.

Contra-NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church.

No saint is "left behind" at the second coming/resurrection/rapture event at the end of time.

1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

That is what every believer can benefit from as having been saved by Him albeit persecution & worry can cause them to be less fruitful as per the examples of the other two grounds for which the seed was received but produced no fruit in the parable of the Sower.

@Carbon @David1701 @Sereni-tea @ReverendRV

 

[Eleanor]

God chose you first by His grace and you responded by choosing to believe in the gospel for your salvation.

Faith is a gift (Php 1:29, Ac 13:38, Ac 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3).

 

[ChristB4us]

Contra-NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church.

No saint is "left behind" at the second coming/resurrection/rapture event at the end of time.

That is because unrepentant saints and former believers are left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event for not being reday as described below.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

 

[Eleanor]

oh I'm not arguing for or against your experience. I was just saying that Jesus calls man to follow Him, to choose to deny themselves, take up their cross daily and follow Him. Its the call to discipleship, obedience to Him. That is a matter of the will, the mind, the heat, the soul. The first command to obey- to love the Lord your God with all of your heart, mind , soul and strength. Jesus said this is the greatest commandment and to love your neighbor as you do yourself. On these two rest all the law/commands. Its an act of the will.

Jesus commands man to believe (Jn 3:18), or suffer the consequences (Jn 3:36).
Faith is a gift ((Php 1:29, Ac 13:48, Av 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3).