God Would Not Command What We Cannot Do

[makesends]

If God commanded what we could not do, then we would not be at fault for not doing it.

Consider the fact that ALL we do, before regeneration, is sinful. Even what good we do, is sinfully done. We are at the core rebellious against God, at enmity with him. So it is not just what we do, that is at fault, but it is what we are, that is judged. Even if your intuitive reasoning was sound (and it is not) it still does not relieve anyone from the guilt of their enmity with God.

 

[John Bauer]

Of course people other than Jesus have kept it, though not perfectly.

That is an understatement to end all understatements. Our track record for keeping the first commandment is a lot worse than "not perfect." At any given moment on any given day, we are prioritizing something above God. Most people are not ready to hear that something as basic as anxiety is a form of idolatry.

Here is another example. Since his computer died unexpectedly, Joe is willing to put a squeeze on his finances in order to secure a new laptop. However, he is not willing to put a squeeze on his finances to secure a new laptop for Jane next door. It is surprisingly common the everyday ways in which we fail to love our neighbor as ourselves (i.e., Joe loves Jane a lot less than he loves himself).

The point stands: Even if the rate of obedience commanded by God was only 25 percent, we can't do it. We barely scratch the surface of obedience. That is WHY he sent Christ Jesus. "For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit" (Rom 8:3-4). Christ Jesus became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that as it is written, ‘Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord’" (1 Cor 1:30-31).

 

[Eleanor]

Keeping God law doesn't save anyone. All sin and fall short....or do you not sin?

Because salvation has never been by law keeping, it is only by faith.
The law was given to reveal sin, not to save.

 

[Eleanor]

For what it's worth.... I think your "somebody". You're doing a great job.

You're not too shabby yourself. . .

 

[Eleanor]

If God commanded what we could not do, then we would not be at fault for not doing it.

Who made that rule?

I owe you the $50 I borrowed whether I can ever pay it or not.

 

[fastfredy0]

You're not too shabby yourself. . .

Shabby defined .. in poor condition through long or hard use or lack of care.

... so I'm not in too poor of a condition due to lack of care

Well, thank you *giggle*

 

[Eleanor]

Define "external force". For example, if God created Adam's mind and Adam's mind does exactly as God programmed it to do ... is that "external force"?

No, it is not.

Free will is about choosing what one prefers without application of external force. . .as long as there is no external force, the will is acting freely; i.e., choosing what it prefers.

 

[Eleanor]

duplicate

 

[fastfredy0]

When one chooses what one prefers without external force, one is acting freely.

God is an external force.
Acts 17:28 In him we live and breathe and have our being.
Romans 11:36 For from Him [all things originate] and through Him [all things live and exist] and to Him are all things [directed].
To Him be glory and honor forever! Amen.
Deuteronomy 8:17-18 And you say in your heart, my power and the might of mine hand has gotten me this wealth. But you shall remember
the LORD your God: for it is he who gives you power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he
swore unto your fathers, as it is this day"
Proverbs 19:21 Many plans are in a man’s mind, but it is the Lord’s purpose for him that will stand (be carried out).
yada, yada
..... therefore, free will as you define it does not exist IMO

 

[Arial]

No, it is not.

Free will is about choosing what one prefers without application of external force. . .as long as there is no external force, the will is acting freely; i.e., choosing what it prefers.

Not to argue the point, for I do know what you are saying and agree with it. If the external force is a gun to your head, death or your money, you have no desire to give up your money but you prefer to keep your life over your money, your will is still acting it is not acting freely. It is acted upon by external force.

 

[Eleanor]

God is an external force.
Acts 17:28 In him we live and breathe and have our being.
Romans 11:36 For from Him [all things originate] and through Him [all things live and exist] and to Him are all things [directed].
To Him be glory and honor forever! Amen.
Deuteronomy 8:17-18 And you say in your heart, my power and the might of mine hand has gotten me this wealth. But you shall remember
the LORD your God: for it is he who gives you power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he
swore unto your fathers, as it is this day"
Proverbs 19:21 Many plans are in a man’s mind, but it is the Lord’s purpose for him that will stand (be carried out).
yada, yada
..... therefore, free will as you define it does not exist IMO

When I choose an orange over an apple, in the absence of external force, I am acting freely; i.e., choosing what I prefer.

That is the Biblical meaning of human free will.

 

[CrowCross]

When I choose an orange over an apple, in the absence of external force, I am acting freely; i.e., choosing what I prefer.

That is the Biblical meaning of human free will.

Is there a difference between choosing an apple or an orange....and....choosing Jesus as your Lord and Savior?

 

[Eleanor]

Is there a difference between choosing an apple or an orange....and....choosing Jesus as your Lord and Savior?

Before sovereign rebirth (Jn 3:6-8) by the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-5), I am spiritually dead and can make no spiritual choices (1 Co 2:14).

Fruit is not a spiritual choice.

 

[makesends]

No, it is not.

Free will is about choosing what one prefers without application of external force. . .as long as there is no external force, the will is acting freely; i.e., choosing what it prefers.

In my usual nit-picking way, "external force" as in influences? MANY times I have heard the complaint that my notion of God and causation comes down to God forcing puppets to do what they do. I reject completely that use of the word, "force". (Lol, I almost said, "use of force".)

But to say that God does not cause us to choose one way or the other is to me void of reason. Sometimes I think people that make dictionaries would make successful diplomats, knowing how to walk the fence. They write what people think and say, but no mention of the implications. "Freewill" is not without application of external causes, or it is not a real thing. But people think it is, though the dictionary doesn't claim one way or the other whether it is a real thing.

Even Arminians pray for God to do this or that in order to bring others to himself, or so that they can see him better, etc.

 

[fastfredy0]

When I choose an orange over an apple, in the absence of external force, I am acting freely; i.e., choosing what I prefer.

If God has 'programmed' you to choose an orange over an apple, is that a "free choice"?

If God has 'not programmed' you to choose an orange over an apple, then what/who was the ultimate reason for you choosing an orange? (Remember, you are a created being so that means you didn't program yourself for from nothing nothing comes and at one time your were nothing).

 

[makesends]

Of course. The simple preference of the one vs the grace of God in the other case.

 

[Eleanor]

In my usual nit-picking way, "external force" as in influences?

External force such as throwing me in the water.

MANY times I have heard the complaint that my notion of God and causation comes down to God forcing puppets to do what they do. I reject completely that use of the word, "force". (Lol, I almost said, "use of force".)

But to say that God does not cause us to choose one way or the other is to me void of reason. Sometimes I think people that make dictionaries would make successful diplomats, knowing how to walk the fence. They write what people think and say, but no mention of the implications. "Freewill" is not without application of external causes, or it is not a real thing. But people think it is, though the dictionary doesn't claim one way or the other whether it is a real thing.

Even Arminians pray for God to do this or that in order to bring others to himself, or so that they can see him better, etc.

 

[makesends]

If God has 'programmed' you to choose an orange over an apple, is that a "free choice"?

If God has 'not programmed' you to choose an orange over an apple, then what/who was the ultimate reason for you choosing an orange? (Remember, you are a created being so that means you didn't program yourself for from nothing nothing comes and at one time your were nothing).

Why the terminology, "programmed"?

 

[makesends]

External force such as throwing me in the water.

Ok. So, like being regenerated...

 

[fastfredy0]

Why the terminology, "programmed"?

Seemed an appropriate analogy. I write a program and the computer follows precisely. God has an eternal plan and implements it by creating humans who follow His plan precisely. Has any human ever swayed from God's plan? If not, what a coincidence it must be that our free will happened to coincide with His eternal plan.
Aside: I think we have a common belief in this matter.