God`s Eternal Purposes.

[Marilyn C]

God chose the Jews by which He would work through all the types and shadows and prophecy concerning Christ. All believers from beginning to end are part of the body of Christ.

I disagree.

This is a grand topic and would require a long thread, which I have no problem with. So, it may be good to break it up and deal with parts at a time.

Good idea Carbon.

 

[makesends]

That is a great question. And I don`t have to speculate or guess for that important detail is in God`s word.

Now, we need to remember that Jesus even in His glorified human body is still part of the Godhead by His spirit. Thus the authority of the Father`s right hand, is still His. However, as God`s word tells us He will be given His `own throne.` That means He will be appointed of the Father in His kingship position visibly in the third heaven.

And we know that the Lord is still on the Father`s throne for the Father said, `Sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your footstool, )(ready for judgment).` (Ps. 110: 1)

And we know that the Lord, at the Father`s right hand is busy building and maturing His body, `till we all come to the maturity of faith...` (Eph. 4: 13) Then the Father will send Jesus to gather His body together and bring them to the third heaven where He will be inaugurated as supreme ruler of all God`s great kingdom. (Acts 3: 20 & 21)

That highest rulership position (under the Godhead) is the first restoration of rulership in all of God`s great kingdom. (No one or angel being placed as king there since Lucifer fell). From that rulership, the Lord will begin to put down all rule and authority and power (through the trib, and millennium) till finally the NHNE when it will all be delivered back to the Father. (1 Cor. 15: 24 - 28)

.
As a trinitarian can you guess or speculate when God will remove Jesus from sitting on the right hand of the throne of the Father ?

referring to Jesus - when will his glory and seat at the right hand of God be taken away from him ?

Let me see if I'm hearing you right. You are saying that Jesus' glory and position "will be taken away from him"?

How does any position he owns or that is given him, imply him being removed from his position at the right hand of the Father. What is it that requires physical displacement of the Spiritual, such that WE can make such claims?

 

[Carbon]

Good idea Carbon.

Thanks. I have those once in a while.

 

[juxtaposeraphim]

.
I sincerely thank you for opportunity to explain what I was saying, I do not want to waste your valuable time by repeating things.

I will post this lastly and move on about this particular subject unless someone is asking me to further expound but what I was saying is that the Trinitarian Translation itself is very manipulating and altering or changing the original message of the manuscript message

The Trinitarian translation is very different from the original manuscript message

please notice - 1Co 15:28 from the translation

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

what the translation is saying that after all things shall be subdued unto Jesus then Jesus is going to be subdued or subjected to God -
then, at this time - God will take control of Jesus,
then, at this time - Jesus will be placed under the power and control of God ,
then, at this time - Jesus will become subordinate and inferior to God

when all things shall be subdued unto him, THEN shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The question is
why would Jesus - THEN - at this time, suddenly need to be taken under control and placed under the power and become subordinate and inferior to God - if this is where he already exists, but he already has submitted to God in every way possible, he has already in all things been taken under the control and under the power and become subordinate and inferior to God, this does not make sense !

but we find that again this passage is manipulated and mistranslated - this is not what the manuscripts are saying

Verse :28 - is saying in the original manuscripts -

οταν When - δε also - υποταγη - submitting - αυτω him - τα this - παντα all - τοτε then -
και also - αυτος he - ο the - υιος Son - υποταγησεται subugates - τω the - υποταξαντι subugated -
αυτω himself, - τα this - παντα all - ινα for - η is - ο the - θεος God - τα this -
παντα all - εν in - πασιν all.


Meaning in the original manuscripts

WHEN ALSO SUBMITTING HIM THIS ALL, THEN THE SON SUBUGATES THE SUBUGATED HIMSELF THIS ALL
FOR IS THE GOD THIS ALL IN ALL.

The manuscripts are not saying that “ at this time “ suddenly - Jesus is then and there taken under the control and placed under the power of God and suddenly become subordinate and inferior to God - he is being re - located and re - positioned to changing his reputation, status and rank and suddenly become beneath and subject to the Father –

But yet the truth is - he always has been and has never ceased to exist doing and being exactly this, this is complete foolishness.
the original manuscripts are saying

WHEN ALSO SUBMITTING HIM THIS ALL, THEN THE SON SUBUGATES THE SUBUGATED HIMSELF THIS ALL

FOR IS THE GOD THIS ALL IN ALL.

As he already has submitted to God in every way possible, he has already, in all things been taken under the control and under the power and become subordinate and inferior to God - the son has already SUBUGATED SURRENDERED himself yielded and submitted himself completely and PERFECTLY to the father and has not taken any other position at all whatsoever in any way -

 

[juxtaposeraphim]

furthermore importantly, we also notice in the translation
K.J.V - Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,,,, sat down on the right hand of God;

verse :13 FROM HENCEFORTH EXPECTING UNTILL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL.

This Greek word “ expecting “ is the word ἐκδέχομαι - ekdechomai - meaning = To accept, to await, To EXPECT, to look forward unto, to wait for. Here in the translation, the expectation of Jesus is that he himself is “ expecting “ that he will sit down ON the right hand of God - UNTIL his enemies be made his footstool.
Mar 12:36 Sit ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thy enemies thy footstool.
Luk 20:42 Sit thou ON my right hand, - UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Act 2:34 Sit thou ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool.
Heb 1:13 Sit ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool?

If the expectation of Jesus is that he will be accepting and “ expecting “ that he will sit down ON the right hand of God UNTIL his enemies be made his footstool, why do Trinitarians forever leave him sitting down ON the right hand of God
The trinitarian Translation expressly changes the original message to insert the narrative that Jesus is being removed from the glory and right hand of the throne because this is what the Trinity Doctrine was designed and invented to do -

The Trinity doctrine was established and instituted to present a Jesus who is this very second person of a Trinity Godhead - as second CO SPIRIT, a different spirit from the Father and Holy Spirit -
as second CO PERSON, a different person from the Father and Holy Spirit
as second CO EQUAL, different equaity from the Father and Holy Spirit

this is very exact purpose of the Trinity teaching, therefore, Trinitarian Jesus needs to exist as a numbered multiple person of God who moves up and down, backwards and forwards, on and off , in and out of authority and reputation concerning his very existence and position in the Godhead Trinity.

Look at Joh 17: :5 -

:5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE the world was.

Jesus , here - had all of this Glory with the father “ BEFORE THE WORLD WAS CREATED “ - and after the creation he suddenly lost all of his glory - and after the creation - HE SUDDENLY LOST ALL OF THIS GLORY ?

he then came to be born on earth – THEN HE RESURRECTS AND ASCENDS TO HEAVEN TO AGAIN RECEIVE AGAIN THE SAME GLORY " THAT HE HAD LOST, " FOR APROX 4000 YEARS - BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE EARTH.
But again, this is not what the manuscripts are saying in Joh 17: :5

but - here is the original message of the Greek manuscript.

:5 AND NOW GLORIFY ME YOU FATHER FROM YOURSELF, THE GLORY THAT I HAD BEFORE,
UNTO THE WORLD THAT IS FROM YOU.


:5 και And - νυν now - δοξασο glorify - με me - συ you - πατερ father - παρα from - σεαυτω yourself, - τη the - δοξη glory - η that - ειχον I had - προ before -

του unto - τον the - κοσμο world - ειναι that is - παρα from - σοι you.


YOU SEE - that the fact is - IN TRINITY - TRINITARIANS CANNOT HAVE A JESUS WHO RECEIVES THE SAME GLORY THAT HE HAD BEFORE HE WAS CONCEIVED AS ONLY BORN SON OF GOD

TRINITARIANS NEED TO ALTER THE PASSAGE IN VERSE :5 - TO CHANGE IT TO SAY THAT JESUS IS RETURNING TO THE GLORY HE HAD 4000 YEARS AGO BEFORE THE WORLD WAS CREATED…….

:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE the world was.

Because in the Trinity, the pre existing son Jesus is to sit “ ON “ the right hand of the throne and is being re- positioned, re- located and changing his rank, status concerning his CO GODHEAD - SECOND PERSON OF TRINTY, he is being promoted, endorsed as a separate second Spirit Person / Being of the Godhead.

Therefore it is necessary to change and alter everything in the scriptures that does not fit the Trinity narrative and to also add to everything that can be manipulated to warp, twist and contort into a Trinity narrative

CHANGING THE VERY ORIGINAL MESSAGE THAT HE IS EXITING OUT OF THE RIGHT OF GOD UNTIL HIS ENEMIES ARE A FOOTSTOOL - THAT HE EXITS OUT OF GOD AND RETURNS BACK IN GOD and is forever TO DWELL IN THE RIGHT OF GOD

AND IS NEVER, EVER, EVER SAID TO DWELL “ ON - NOR - AT “ THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD ANYWHERE AT ANY TIME IN THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS. But is always, always said to be “ in and out “ of the right of God and
“ in and out “ of the right of the throne “ as the Greek says exactly, without a single exception.

Because he comes out of God and does not pre – exist in a trinity Godhead.

 

[Eleanor]

duplicate

 

[Eleanor]

furthermore importantly, we also notice in the translation
K.J.V - Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,,,, sat down on the right hand of God;
verse :13 FROM HENCEFORTH EXPECTING UNTILL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL. [

This Greek word “ expecting “ is the word ἐκδέχομαι - ekdechomai - meaning = To accept, to await, To EXPECT, to look forward unto, to wait for. Here in the translation, the expectation of Jesus is that he himself is “ expecting “ that he will sit down ON the right hand of God - UNTIL his enemies be made his footstool.
Mar 12:36 Sit ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thy enemies thy footstool.

If the expectation of Jesus is that he will be accepting and “ expecting “ that he will sit down ON the right hand of God UNTIL his enemies be made his footstool, why do Trinitarians forever leave him sitting down ON the right hand of God
The trinitarian Translation expressly changes the original message to insert the narrative that Jesus is being removed from the glory and right hand of the throne because this is what the Trinity Doctrine was designed and invented to do -

The Trinity doctrine was established and instituted to present a Jesus who is this very second person of a Trinity Godhead - as second CO SPIRIT, a different spirit from the Father and Holy Spirit -
as second CO PERSON, a different person from the Father and Holy Spirit
as second CO EQUAL, different equaity from the Father and Holy Spirit

this is very exact purpose of the Trinity teaching, therefore, Trinitarian Jesus needs to exist as a numbered multiple person of God who moves up and down, backwards and forwards, on and off , in and out of authority and reputation concerning his very existence and position in the Godhead Trinity.

Look at Joh 17: :5 -
:5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE the world was.
Jesus , here - had all of this Glory with the father “ BEFORE THE WORLD WAS CREATED “

- and after the creation - HE SUDDENLY LOST ALL OF THIS GLORY [/B]?

Jn 17:5 doesn't state when he lost his glory. That is your assumption.
It states only how long his glory had existed--before the foundation of the world.

but - here is the original message of the Greek manuscript.

:5 AND NOW GLORIFY ME YOU FATHER FROM YOURSELF, THE GLORY THAT I HAD BEFORE,
UNTO THE WORLD THAT IS FROM YOU.
YOU SEE - that the fact is - IN TRINITY - TRINITARIANS CANNOT HAVE A JESUS WHO RECEIVES THE SAME GLORY THAT HE HAD BEFORE HE WAS CONCEIVED AS ONLY BORN SON OF GOD

And they don't. Because Jn 17:5 does not state that.

TRINITARIANS NEED TO ALTER THE PASSAGE IN VERSE :5 - TO CHANGE IT TO SAY THAT JESUS IS RETURNING TO THE GLORY HE HAD 4000 YEARS AGO BEFORE THE WORLD WAS CREATED…….

Because this is precisely what Jn 17:5 states; i.e., he is returning to the glory he had before his incarnation; i.e., which is his glory that goes all the way back to before the foundation of the world:
:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE the world was.

Because in the Trinity, the pre existing son Jesus is to sit “ ON “ the right hand of the throne and is being re- positioned, re- located and changing his rank, status concerning his CO GODHEAD - SECOND PERSON OF TRINTY, he is being promoted, endorsed as a separate second Spirit Person / Being of the Godhead.
Therefore it is necessary to change and alter everything in the scriptures that does not fit the Trinity narrative and to also add to everything that can be manipulated to warp, twist and contort into a Trinity narrative

There is the Trinity narrative of Jn 17:5, and there is the red herring of your misunderstanding of the narrative of Jn 17:5 arrived at by assuming what the text does not state; i.e., that Jesus lost his glory at creation.
The "Trinity narrative" stands. It is your red herring that he lost his glory at creation that falls .

CHANGING THE VERY ORIGINAL MESSAGE THAT HE IS EXITING OUT OF THE RIGHT OF GOD UNTIL HIS ENEMIES ARE A FOOTSTOOL - THAT HE EXITS OUT OF GOD AND RETURNS BACK IN GOD and is forever TO DWELL IN THE RIGHT OF GOD

AND IS NEVER, EVER, EVER SAID TO DWELL “ ON - NOR - AT “ THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD ANYWHERE AT ANY TIME IN THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS

. But is always, always said to be “ in and out “ of the right of God and
“ in and out “ of the right of the throne “ as the Greek says exactly, without a single exception.
Because he comes out of God and does not pre – exist in a trinity Godhead.[/quote]
What a NT Scriptural salad.

1) The Son pre-existed in the Trinity, his existence
2) coming forth out of God (Jn 8:42), coming forth from the Father (Gr: exelthon, form of erchomai, Jn 16:27-28, 17:8).
Jesus is saying that he was begotten of God, emanating from within the Father, not from outside him, as did all created beings.[/FON

 

[Eleanor]

Clean up of end of post above:

But is always, always said to be “ in and out “ of the right of God and
“ in and out “ of the right of the throne “ as the Greek says exactly, without a single exception.
Because he comes out of God and does not pre – exist in a trinity Godhead.

What a NT Scriptural salad.

1) The Son pre-existed in the Trinity, his existence
2) coming forth out of God (Jn 8:42), coming forth from the Father (Gr: exelthon, form of erchomai, Jn 16:27-28, 17:8).
Jesus is saying that he was begotten of God, emanating from within the Father, not from outside him, as did all created beings.[/FON[/U][/U]

 

[juxtaposeraphim]

understood, thanks for replying.

 

[juxtaposeraphim]

.
The Truth is . . . . . . .

ERRORS in the Trinitarian Translations are created because the Trinitarians are literally mistranslating and altering changing the original message.

when we change the original message of the manuscript this opens the door for - CONTRADICTIONS

one of the many, many, many mistranslations is found in -Heb 10:12 - - which has created a massive ERROR in the Translation,


K.J.V
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

:13 FROM HENCEFORTH EXPECTING UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL.

So this is NOT Jesus forever sitting on the right hand of God


Mar 12:36 Sit ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thy enemies thy footstool.
Luk 20:42 Sit thou ON my right hand, - UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Act 2:34 Sit thou ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool.
Heb 1:13 Sit ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool?


In the Trinity TRANSLATION - Jesus was not ON the right hand of God before Jesus is being commanded to be re- positioned, re - located, moved from one position of status and rank of authority progressing and changing his seating order

The Trinitarian Translation presents Jesus as being re - positioned, re - located and moving, changing the placement and status of his position from one existing position to be re located and placed and moved to another position and higher status - Jesus - was not sitting ON the right hand of God before God located him there ! !

Why are we to believe the Trinitarian teaching that God did not really mean when he said that he would be - ON the right hand of God - UNTL I make thine enemies thy footstool

REMEMBER

The Trinitarian Jesus is - EXPECTING THAT UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL - he will be seated ON the right hand of God,

UNTIL THIS TIME - HE WILL SIT ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER

WHY SHOULD WE NOT EXPECT THE SAME EXPECTATION THAT JESUS EXPECTS.

do Trinitarians have a “ SURPRISE REVELATION “ a new revelation to alter and change the plan of God and change the expectation of Jesus, God will go against his own word and against the EXPECTATION of Jesus and God will leave him forever sitting ON the right hand of God ?

Because the trinity doctrine was invented - it has created the supernatural power to alter and change the plan of God and change the expectation of Jesus ? just because trinitarians invented a formula and inserted it into the translation by altering and changing the original message.



ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS SAY

IN REALITY THE MANUSCRIPTS SAY - Heb 1:13


:12 Sit -- ““ EX / εξ “ “ - OUT OF / FROM my right, until I make thine enemies thy footstool

:13 FROM HENCEFORTH EXPECTING UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL


THIS BECAUSE JESUS WAS TO SIT OUT OF THE RIGHT OF GOD - BECAUSE HE EXITED OR CAME OUT OF GOD

AFTER HIS ENEMIES ARE A FOOTSTOOL HE WILL SIT IN THE RIGHT OF GOD

Jesus expects that he will not remain out of the right of God but expects that after his enemies are a footstool he will dwell IN the right of God



​

 

[juxtaposeraphim]

.
THE TRUTH - LET'S BEGIN TO ANSWER THE QUESTION

Mat 26:64 Jesus saith ........ I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting { ἐκ / EX - OUT OF } the right of power,

ἐκ = ek / EX

The Greek word " EX " Means = A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out (of place, time or cause; , from (among, forth out (from, of), (-out of ).

NEVER - NOT EVEN ONE SINGLE TIME - do we find Yahashua sitting ON or AT the right of God. This simply does not exist in the manuscript.


Yahashua is always dwelling OUT OF and IN the right of God
IN = EN the right of power
IN = EN the right of the throne
IN = EN the right of the Father


Rom 8:34 Christ ἐν - - en " in the right of God, Who also maketh intercession for us.
Eph 1:20 Christ is ἐν - - en " in his own right ἐν - - en " in the heavenly place.
Heb 12:2 Christ is set ἐν - - en " in the right of the throne of God.


Heb 1:3 Christ. . . . . The express image of The Fathers confidence, . . . . Sat down - - ἐν - - en " in the right of the Majesty ἐν - - en " in the high.

Heb 8:1 Christ is set ἐν - - en " in the right of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens.
Heb 10:12 Jesus is forever sat down ἐν - - en " in the right of God.
1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, And is ἐν - - en " in the right of God.


NEVER EVEN ONCE - are the words ON or AT used to describe Yahashua sitting or dwelling anywhere concerning God and his throne

Mat 26:64 ye see the Son of man sitting { ἐκ / EX - OUT OF } the right of power,
OUT OF = ἐκ EX

They literally insert their Trinity by replacing IN and OUT - with AT and ON


Remember - Yahoshua says three things here about his identity.


John 8:42

i COME OUT FROM THE GOD -
i COME NOT ALSO FROM - MYSELF -
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT -


εγω I AM - γαρ FOR - εκ OUT / FROM - του THE - θεου GOD - εξηλθον CAME OUT -

και AND - ηκω COME - ουδε NOT - γαρ FOR - απ FROM - εμαυτου MYSELF - εληλυθα I COME -

αλλ NEITHER - εκεινος MYSELF - με I - απεστειλεν SENT.


Meaning - Yahoshua was not a mere “ departing exiting FORM “ nor MORPH of his OWN pre - existence. - -
Nor even a departed FORM or MORPH of his own self " himself. " as a separate pre-existing 2 nd person.


SO WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR JESUS TO BE IN AND OUT OF THE RIGHT OF GOD ?


WHEN HE APPEARS IN BODILY FORM - HE IS DEPARTING DWELLING OUT OF THE RIGHT OF GOD

WHEN HE IS ON THE THRONE - HE HAS ENTERED - DWELLING IN THE RIGHT OF GOD

AND HE IS FOREVER IN THE RIGHT OF GOD - BUT CAN DEPART OUT OF GOD -
TO DWELL OUT OF THE RIGHT OF GOD.... IN BODILY FORM


NEVER - NOT EVEN ONE SINGLE TIME - do we find Yahashua sitting ON or AT the right HAND
of God. - NEVER EVER IN THE MANUSCRIPTS

This simply does not exist in the manuscript.​

 

[Eleanor]

.
The Truth is . . . . . . .
ERRORS in the Trinitarian Translations are created because the Trinitarians are literally mistranslating and altering changing the original message.​

What is the Trinity translation?

when we change the original message of the manuscript this opens the door for - CONTRADICTIONS
one of the many, many, many mistranslations is found in -Heb 10:12 - - which has created a massive ERROR in the Translation,
K.J.V
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; :13 FROM HENCEFORTH EXPECTING UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL.
So this is NOT Jesus forever sitting on the right hand of God
Mar 12:36 Sit ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thy enemies thy footstool.
Luk 20:42 Sit thou ON my right hand, - UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Act 2:34 Sit thou ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thy foes thy footstool.
Heb 1:13 Sit ON my right hand, UNTIL I make thine enemies thy footstool?


In the Trinity TRANSLATION - Jesus was not ON the right hand of God before Jesus is being commanded to be re- positioned, re - located, moved from one position of status and rank of authority progressing and changing his seating order

The Trinitarian Translation presents Jesus as being re - positioned, re - located and moving, changing the placement and status of his position from one existing position to be re located and placed and moved to another position and higher status - Jesus - was not sitting ON the right hand of God before God located him there ! !

Why are we to believe the Trinitarian teaching that God did not really mean when he said that he would be - ON the right hand of God - UNTL I make thine enemies thy footstool

REMEMBER

The Trinitarian Jesus is - EXPECTING THAT UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL - he will be seated ON the right hand of God,

UNTIL THIS TIME - HE WILL SIT ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER

WHY SHOULD WE NOT EXPECT THE SAME EXPECTATION THAT JESUS EXPECTS.

do Trinitarians have a “ SURPRISE REVELATION “ a new revelation to alter and change the plan of God and change the expectation of Jesus, God will go against his own word and against the EXPECTATION of Jesus and God will leave him forever sitting ON the right hand of God ?

Because the trinity doctrine was invented - it has created the supernatural power to alter and change the plan of God and change the expectation of Jesus ? just because trinitarians invented a formula and inserted it into the translation by altering and changing the original message.



ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS SAY

IN REALITY THE MANUSCRIPTS SAY - Heb 1:13


:12 Sit -- ““ EX / εξ “ “ - OUT OF / FROM my right, until I make thine enemies thy footstool

:13 FROM HENCEFORTH EXPECTING UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL


THIS BECAUSE JESUS WAS TO SIT OUT OF THE RIGHT OF GOD - BECAUSE HE EXITED OR CAME OUT OF GOD

AFTER HIS ENEMIES ARE A FOOTSTOOL HE WILL SIT IN THE RIGHT OF GOD

Jesus expects that he will not remain out of the right of God but expects that after his enemies are a footstool he will dwell IN the right of God

​

 

[Ladodgers6]

Hi Carbon, and others,​

I read this from the link posted on another thread. I would like to respond to some of the notes.

ARTICLE 7: ELECTION​

Election [or choosing] is God’s unchangeable purpose by which he did the following:

Before the foundation of the world, by sheer grace, according to the free good pleasure of his will, he chose in Christ to salvation a definite number of particular people out of the entire human race, which had fallen by its own fault from its original innocence into sin and ruin. Those chosen were neither better nor more deserving than the others, but lay with them in the common misery. He did this in Christ, whom he also appointed from eternity to be the mediator, the head of all those chosen, and the foundation of their salvation.

And so he decided to give the chosen ones to Christ to be saved, and to call and draw them effectively into Christ’s fellowship through his Word and Spirit. In other words, he decided to grant them true faith in Christ, to justify them, to sanctify them, and finally, after powerfully preserving them in the fellowship of his Son, to glorify them.

God did all this in order to demonstrate his mercy, to the praise of the riches of his glorious grace.

As Scripture says, “God chose us in Christ, before the foundation of the world, so that we should be holy and blameless before him with love; he predestined us whom he adopted as his children through Jesus Christ, in himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, by which he freely made us pleasing to himself in his beloved” (Eph. 1:4–6). And elsewhere, “Those whom he predestined, he also called; and those whom he called, he also justified; and those whom he justified, he also glorified” (Rom. 8:30).

My Comments -

God says - `Give no offence, either to the Jews or to the Greeks (nations) or to the church of God,..` (1 Cor. 10: 32)

We know from God`s word that He created the nations from Noah and His family. Later God called out another nation for Himself, Israel, from the other nations. Then after Christ ascended to the Father He was made Head of another group that was called out from Israel and from the nations - the Body of Christ.

Thus, God recognizes - nations, Israel and the Body of Christ.

1. The above notes on `election` only deals with those who come to Christ after His ascension.

God in His foreknowledge destined those who came into Christ to `be conformed to the image of His Son.` (Rom. 8: 29) This is only possible by the Holy Spirit who enables the believer to partake of the divine nature. (2 Peter 1: 4)

Those pre-cross did not have this privilege. Those like Abel etc (Heb. 11) were given the promise of the city, and by obeying God for that they were accounted righteous. (Heb. 11: 13 - 16)

Then there are those who never received any promise but obeyed their God-given conscience and will be judged according to their works. (Rev. 20: 13)

2. The Chosen. God`s mercy is for the `whosoever.` Thus when someone responds to the Spirit drawing them to God it is like `going through a door which has `whosoever ` on the front. Then when they go through and look back they see on the inside of the door, `Chosen` in Christ before the foundation of the world.

God is not partial, but according to His eternal purpose in Christ in the `fullness of the times he may gather in one, (harmony) all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Christ,` all under His authority.

A grand topic.

It goes all the the way back to Adam & Eve, where God promises through a Covenant of Grace, that he will send a Promised Seed, that will redeem his people form their sins (Genesis 3:15).

 

[Ladodgers6]

All God's one people, going all the way back to Abraham Ro 11:16-23), are the church, the body of Christ.
If you are in Christ, you are the seed of Abraham (Gal 3:29).

It goes even further back to Adam & Eve where God promises to send a Promised Seed, to redeem his people from their sins (Genesis 3:15). This Covenant of Grace in Genesis 3:15 is the first Gospel; Protoevangelium

Protoevangelium or "First Gospel" is a messianic interpretation of a text that presages man's ultimate triumph over sin through a coming Savior. The term is used as the first anticipation of the Gospel. The Protoevangelium is a single verse, Genesis 3:15, which is the first mention of the Gospel in Scripture. It occurs right after the Fall of Adam & Eve and is an encapsulation of the entire Gospel.​

 

[Eleanor]

Christ is the promised seed of Abraham, but we are not of Abraham only of Christ.

Not according to the apostle Paul in Gal 3:29: "If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (of Ge 17:19)

Christ died, rose and ascended to the Father. He now has a glorified body, and we will have similar. Nothing of Abraham will enable us to have that - from an incorruptible seed.

It is the Holy Spirit that Jesus sent after His ascension that makes us like Christ. Those who had gone before that do not have the privilege of that.

We are heirs of the promise of an everlasting possession (Ge 17:8, 48:4), the heavenly land promised to and received by the patriarchs (Heb 11:13-16).

 

[Eleanor]

So DS, I am not trying to belabor this but if because we have faith like Abraham then figuratively we are `sons.` but NOT descendants. That would involve a lineage of human intervention.

Please tell me how you became `in Christ?` Was it because you are a descendant of Abraham?

That is backwards.

We are the seed of Abraham because we are in Christ, who is the seed of Abraham (Gal 3:29).

Gal. 3:29: And if you are in Christ, then you are Abraham`s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Eleanor]

I mean which translation has `descendants? `

NIV