GOD CREATED MAN (ADAM) SINFUL

[jeremiah1five]

Capable Definition & Meaning | Britannica Dictionary

CAPABLE meaning: 1 : able to do something having the qualities or abilities that are needed to do something + of; 2 : skilled at doing something able to do something well

www.britannica.com

Wouldn't the use of the words "being created with the capability to sin" mean that sin was already in them? If sin was not already in them they would not have the capability to sin.

There are Christians that think they know it all and nit-pick about every jot and tittle. And I'll have you know that although there are Christians that say that Adam and the woman were holy can't make the connection that these holy beings sinned but that they remained holy and their sinful acts came from somewhere else, but not them.
They take the word "good" and make it say what it never meant to say when one defines it. They believe the man was holy with the capability to sin and he sinned but it was the act that was sinful not the holy Adam which is a lie. Sin comes from sinner. It comes from nowhere else.

Maybe my understanding of words and my ability to combine words into sentencing is incorrect, especially to some.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Mankind was created good and true /Let there be and it was God alone good.

Mankind was subject to the letter of law of God (death) the loving merciful commandment " (thou shall not) .

God who created the will of man and give him a memory. When they were deceived surely you will not die look at my beauty and live forever by the false prophecy. . . the memory of the spiritual things disappear

Memory one of the better gifts that is taken for granted .One of the most painful labors of love for a family of one sufferings. Remember him in the days of youth and keep it as long as you can. Do not wait till old and lack desire. That comes along with memory loss. The appointment to die once

John 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Christ our supernatural hard drive .Earth to Mr, GLee . . . Recalculating. . . turn repent go the other way make a U turn. . your destination on the right side up LOL

Man and the woman were created sinful. That's why they sinned. Sin comes from sinner. That's the only place it originates: in the sinner.
It doesn't come from holiness.

 

[Mr GLee]

Man and the woman were created sinful. That's why they sinned. Sin comes from sinner. That's the only place it originates: in the sinner.
It doesn't come from holiness.

So God created man in his own (Good) image, .. . not sinful

Sin comes from disobeying the word of God (sola scriptura)

Let there be flesh and blood and it was God alone good.

All things God makes is God good .He did not, cannot design anything to be sinful . It is why a person must be born from above .It was established from the beginning

They fell according to the letter of the law "thou shall not" They sinned because Satan added to prophecy .Mankind believed the false prophecy.

 

[Mr GLee]

They just don't know that in our present natural existence they are 'created' in the image of God, which is not really true in and of itself. When God created man, He created him 'fallen short of the glory of God' which is the same as saying he (and the woman) were created sinful, a word that means "missing the mark" in Greek. This is why they sinned twice in the Garden. They sinned first by lying about what God said about not eating from the forbidden tree. God said this:

I would offer. .

If he says it. . .it is true. . . "let there be: . .." it was God alone good: . Good defines God

Being created falls short of the glory of the Creator. Just as the light of the moon and stars is a the reflection of the Sun as a reflection , , , they falls short of the glory of the Sun .

Man could never be glorious God

The Faithful labor of love. . (let there be: "the light of the glory of God" on our path and the light was good )

Psalms 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Christ is the one source of Christian faith (belief)

The idea "I will be like the most glorious high" comes from Lucifer who usurped the glory of God's Creation as if he was the Faithful Creator

Rather than guarding the glory of new creation from false pride (lust flesh, lust eye) of the creation he became the father of false pride the god of this world .

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Christ the true light (glory) it is how he introduced him elf to darkness

The beginning ."Let there be the cloud of the presence of God." and the presence of God" revealed form" . the darkness disappeared

God is light and not that he can only create it temporally as a parable.

 

[TMSO]

Adam and the woman were already sinners before they disobeyed God at the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
By adding to God's word, they were found out liars and thus sinned before the sin at the Tree.

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Prov. 30:6.

They said, "neither shall ye touch it!"

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. Gen. 3:3.

They were sinners which explains why they disobeyed God and ate from the tree.

Sin comes from sinners. Wickedness comes from the wicked.

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Sam. 24:13.

I don't think there is any clearer way for you to state that God created sin. Reread I Samuel 24:13. If Adam and Eve were created sinners (wicked), and I Samuel 24:13 says "Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked", what does that say to what you said.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I don't think there is any clearer way for you to state that God created sin. Reread I Samuel 24:13. If Adam and Eve were created sinners (wicked), and I Samuel 24:13 says "Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked", what does that say to what you said.

It says God created Adam and the woman "missing the mark."
What is that "mark" they missed?
The glory of God.
There is only ONE God.
There is NONE like Him.
He gives His glory to NO ONE.
Thus, anything and anyone is created fallen short of His glory. This includes the universe, animals, plants, man.
They all die.
Thus, they do not possess the glory of God.
The word for that is "sin."

 

[Mr GLee]

It says God created Adam and the woman "missing the mark."
What is that "mark" they missed?
The glory of God.
There is only ONE God.
There is NONE like Him.
He gives His glory to NO ONE.
Thus, anything and anyone is created fallen short of His glory. This includes the universe, animals, plants, man.
They all die.
Thus, they do not possess the glory of God.
The word for that is "sin."

I would offer. . .God in not the author of sin

They missed the mark.to obey the loving commandment of God not seen .They refused a God not seen They obeyed the false commandment as false prophecy the letter of the law "death" Surely you will not die look at my beauty and liveforever. . why do a foolish thing believe in a God not seen ?

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

God whose name is Jealous created all things,

Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

No other gods includes oneself.

God alone jealously guards what is his . He will not share his glory with dying mankind . Believers reflect the glory of his power but would never say it comes from dying mankind. He who has no needs is not served by human hands as a will .

In that way we can miraculously look to the unseen things of God the eternal through the dying things what which was created the temporal historical .

In that same way believers must be careful how we hear who we say we do. It would seem God's Holy Spirit protects born agin believers as the armor that defends believers .Put on keep on as long as one has power ,

Believers have preaching power a reflection of his glory .Our Holy Father alone has "teaching power" ,comforting guiding power and bringing to the our memory of the previous things he has taught the believers (John14)

2 Corinthians 4:5- 7 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

God whose very essence is Light can create a evil by removing his gospel light of peace . In Him that reveals the darkness . There is no darkness

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things

The God that hides and reveals Himself

 

[jeremiah1five]

I would offer. . .God in not the author of sin

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
That there is none beside me.
I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:6–7.

They missed the mark.to obey the loving commandment of God not seen .They refused a God not seen They obeyed the false commandment as false prophecy the letter of the law "death" Surely you will not die look at my beauty and liveforever. . why do a foolish thing believe in a God not seen ?

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

God whose name is Jealous created all things,

Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

No other gods includes oneself.

God alone jealously guards what is his . He will not share his glory with dying mankind . Believers reflect the glory of his power but would never say it comes from dying mankind. He who has no needs is not served by human hands as a will .

In that way we can miraculously look to the unseen things of God the eternal through the dying things what which was created the temporal historical .

In that same way believers must be careful how we hear who we say we do. It would seem God's Holy Spirit protects born agin believers as the armor that defends believers .Put on keep on as long as one has power ,

Believers have preaching power a reflection of his glory .Our Holy Father alone has "teaching power" ,comforting guiding power and bringing to the our memory of the previous things he has taught the believers (John14)

2 Corinthians 4:5- 7 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

God whose very essence is Light can create a evil by removing his gospel light of peace . In Him that reveals the darkness . There is no darkness

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things

The God that hides and reveals Himself

 

[Mr GLee]

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
That there is none beside me.
I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:6–7.

Creates evil by removing the light . I him there is no darkness.

 

[TMSO]

It says God created Adam and the woman "missing the mark."
What is that "mark" they missed?
The glory of God.
There is only ONE God.
There is NONE like Him.
He gives His glory to NO ONE.
Thus, anything and anyone is created fallen short of His glory. This includes the universe, animals, plants, man.
They all die.
Thus, they do not possess the glory of God.
The word for that is "sin."

God did not miss any mark. Are you trying to say that God's image is faulty? He created man in His image. If God created man imperfect, or created them as sinners, what does that say about God? Jesus is God's Son. (He is also God, but that is besides this point). He is not Son in that He was given birth, but that He is in the likeness of the Father, the image of the Father. (To us, the visible image of the invisible God (the Father)). Likewise, we were made in the image of God. So, if we were created sinners, what would that say about God?

So you don't misunderstand, we are made in God's image, however, we are not God, and we are not a duplicate. For instance, God reasons. We reason. Difference? God reasons perfectly, and infinitely, while we, who are tempora and finite, can only reason within finite bounds. God can create, and from nothing. We too can create, however, we cannot create from nothing. We make. God has a will over which He has dominion. His will is perfect. We have a will as well, however, our will is not free and is not under our dominion. It is bound, either by sin, as with the sinner, or by righteousness, as with the believer bought by Jesus, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

They missed the mark. What mark did they miss? What standard did they fall short of? God's perfection. God's holiness. God's sinlessness. Man rebelled against God, which is contrary to the standard God had set up before Adam and Eve.

The word sin means to miss the mark. That is, to be short of the perfection God demands. To be holy, righteous and pure. Sin falls within three categories, hence Satan tested Jesus three times. The lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life. Jesus tests. The lust of the flesh. You are hungry. Why wait on God? You can make food right here and be satisfied. Turn the rocks to bread and eat. Satisfy yourself. The lust of the eyes. Look at the whole world that is before you. All of this is mine. It can be yours. You can have all of this that you can see, and you don't have to suffer to get it. You don't have to go through the pain of this life, and that to come to have all of this. I [Satan] will give it all to you. All you can see you can have. And the pride of life. Jesus is God. Jesus walked on Earth as the suffering servant of Isaiah. There was no fanfare. There was no bragging to the people that He is God. He faced resistance. He was almost stoned. All the people wanted to kill Him. People wouldn't listen to Him, but, but... He is God. How dare you not listen!?! So... here we are at the top of this tall building. You can end all of the problems by just jumping off the building and showing everyone you are God, as the angels come down and save you. All you have to do is show them who you are, how great you are, and you can crush them under foot (metaphorically speaking of course.) Lord it over them. I AM GOD, and you are nothing. The pride of life. (This is undone by "loving your neighbor as yourself" among other things.)

 

[jeremiah1five]

Creates evil by removing the light . I him there is no darkness.

There is no "morality" in light. It is inanimate and possesses no morals.
Evil refers to man, not light.

 

[jeremiah1five]

God did not miss any mark. Are you trying to say that God's image is faulty? He created man in His image. If God created man imperfect, or created them as sinners, what does that say about God? Jesus is God's Son. (He is also God, but that is besides this point). He is not Son in that He was given birth, but that He is in the likeness of the Father, the image of the Father. (To us, the visible image of the invisible God (the Father)). Likewise, we were made in the image of God. So, if we were created sinners, what would that say about God?

You kinda ask the right 'question' in your feeble attempt to understand it with a carnal mind. But the question has been asked by more informed minds: How can a Righteous God create an unrighteous being? This would bring into question the integrity of God. But God cannot reduplicate Himself in Himself. This is impossible for there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE.
Now, apply this truth to the creation of man. Did God reduplicate Himself in created matter? Did God reduplicate any aspect of His Nature or Deific Attributes in created matter: man? The answer is "No."
God cannot create or recreate Himself in matter. He cannot transfer or copy any part of His Deific Nature or Person in Matter. Why not?
Because there is only ONE God.
Did Adam or the woman possess any Deific Attributes or Nature of God?
The answer would have to be "No."
This means that man was created "FALLEN SHORT" of the glory of God, or the glory that is God. The word for this is "sin."

So you don't misunderstand, we are made in God's image, however, we are not God, and we are not a duplicate. For instance, God reasons. We reason. Difference? God reasons perfectly, and infinitely, while we, who are tempora and finite, can only reason within finite bounds. God can create, and from nothing. We too can create, however, we cannot create from nothing. We make. God has a will over which He has dominion. His will is perfect. We have a will as well, however, our will is not free and is not under our dominion. It is bound, either by sin, as with the sinner, or by righteousness, as with the believer bought by Jesus, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

They missed the mark. What mark did they miss? What standard did they fall short of? God's perfection. God's holiness. God's sinlessness. Man rebelled against God, which is contrary to the standard God had set up before Adam and Eve.

ibid.

The word sin means to miss the mark. That is, to be short of the perfection God demands. To be holy, righteous and pure. Sin falls within three categories, hence Satan tested Jesus three times. The lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life. Jesus tests. The lust of the flesh. You are hungry. Why wait on God? You can make food right here and be satisfied. Turn the rocks to bread and eat. Satisfy yourself. The lust of the eyes. Look at the whole world that is before you. All of this is mine. It can be yours. You can have all of this that you can see, and you don't have to suffer to get it. You don't have to go through the pain of this life, and that to come to have all of this. I [Satan] will give it all to you.

The angels that sinned are locked up.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.

And this took place before God created man. I put it between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

And there are not two ways of temptation. Only one:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:13–14.

You are right. You said: "The lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life. Jesus tests. The lust of the flesh. You are hungry. Why wait on God? You can make food right here and be satisfied. Turn the rocks to bread and eat. Satisfy yourself. The lust of the eyes. Look at the whole world that is before you. All of this is mine. It can be yours. You can have all of this that you can see, and you don't have to suffer to get it. You don't have to go through the pain of this life," all this has to do with the flesh. Jesus was both God and Man. And since God cannot be tempted with anything it was the human part of the God-Man that was tested, not the Deity.

All you can see you can have. And the pride of life. Jesus is God. Jesus walked on Earth as the suffering servant of Isaiah. There was no fanfare. There was no bragging to the people that He is God. He faced resistance. He was almost stoned. All the people wanted to kill Him. People wouldn't listen to Him, but, but... He is God. How dare you not listen!?! So... here we are at the top of this tall building. You can end all of the problems by just jumping off the building and showing everyone you are God, as the angels come down and save you. All you have to do is show them who you are, how great you are, and you can crush them under foot (metaphorically speaking of course.) Lord it over them. I AM GOD, and you are nothing. The pride of life. (This is undone by "loving your neighbor as yourself" among other things.)

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? Jn 5:45–47.

To the Jew or Gentile, it doesn't matter.
IF you do not believe Moses (Torah) then you won't believe Jesus.
THAT is the bottom line.

 

[TMSO]

You kinda ask the right 'question' in your feeble attempt to understand it with a carnal mind. But the question has been asked by more informed minds: How can a Righteous God create an unrighteous being? This would bring into question the integrity of God. But God cannot reduplicate Himself in Himself. This is impossible for there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE.

You kind of ask the wrong question with a carnal mind. God did not create an unrighteous being. It has nothing to do with God's glory, but Lucifer's and mankinds rebellion against God. Lucifer didn't seek God's glory, he sought to be as god, that is He sought to dethrone God and be God Himself. However, God created mankind in His image. As such, man is the image of God, though finite and temporal. We see dim reflections of God in what God made. We can create, though finite, and from what has already been created by God. We can design, though again, finite, and within the confines of what exists. (Again, we cannot design or make from nothing.) We can reason, though within the finite expanse of creation, and within our own fallibility. (Our own, not His, since He is not fallible.)

Now, apply this truth to the creation of man. Did God reduplicate Himself in created matter? Did God reduplicate any aspect of His Nature or Deific Attributes in created matter: man? The answer is "No."

God did duplicate aspects of His nature in man. However, it is but a dim reflection. Not deity, but His nature. Why do you keep saying God lied when it says He created man in His image? It is not that we look like Him, but that our nature is a pale reflection of His own. We can reason. We can create (make being a better description). We can design. We can do all kinds of things that God can do, but we can only do it to a much much less degree. When God was done creating, He looked and said that it was good. Since when was sin considered good?

God cannot create or recreate Himself in matter. He cannot transfer or copy any part of His Deific Nature or Person in Matter. Why not?
Because there is only ONE God.

He didn't create God. He created man, and made man in His image. A pale reflection of that which is found in God, but not that which makes God God.

Did Adam or the woman possess any Deific Attributes or Nature of God?

She had some of the nature of God, but that which was a reflection of man, since woman was taken from man.

The answer would have to be "No."
This means that man was created "FALLEN SHORT" of the glory of God, or the glory that is God. The word for this is "sin."

Except that isn't how it is at all. Man was created sinless, though God purposed for whatever reason, that man would sin, and God would redeem. It is beyond our capability to understand His purpose in it, but dimly. (For His glory, obviously, but there is much more to it then we can hope to comprehend/understand)

ibid.

The angels that sinned are locked up.

Angels sin no more.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.

As can be seen here, there sin was no action of God. It was their action. They sinned.

And this took place before God created man. I put it between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

Actually, if you continue reading you would find that it was in the days prior to Noah, and it was the reason why God sent the flood in the first place. However, you would only know that if you read the other passages in scripture dealing with this.

And there are not two ways of temptation. Only one:

I said there were three categories of sin. The lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the one I didn't word properly, the boastful pride of life. You can find this in John's epistles, since he states it.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:13–14.

Yes, but those temptations are going to be in the realm of the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and/or the boastful pride of life.

You are right. You said: "The lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life. Jesus tests. The lust of the flesh. You are hungry. Why wait on God? You can make food right here and be satisfied. Turn the rocks to bread and eat. Satisfy yourself. The lust of the eyes. Look at the whole world that is before you. All of this is mine. It can be yours. You can have all of this that you can see, and you don't have to suffer to get it. You don't have to go through the pain of this life," all this has to do with the flesh. Jesus was both God and Man. And since God cannot be tempted with anything it was the human part of the God-Man that was tested, not the Deity.

Yes, it was the human part that was tested. I fully agree. The humanity was in full communion with the deity (the two natures in perfect communion/fellowship) and thus the flesh overcame the temptation through the Word of God.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? Jn 5:45–47.

To the Jew or Gentile, it doesn't matter.
IF you do not believe Moses (Torah) then you won't believe Jesus.
THAT is the bottom line.

Sort of. The point was that Moses prophesied of Christ, so if they didn't listen to Moses, they wouldn't understand/know/recognize Him.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You kind of ask the wrong question with a carnal mind. God did not create an unrighteous being. It has nothing to do with God's glory, but Lucifer's and mankinds rebellion against God. Lucifer didn't seek God's glory, he sought to be as god, that is He sought to dethrone God and be God Himself. However, God created mankind in His image. As such, man is the image of God, though finite and temporal. We see dim reflections of God in what God made. We can create, though finite, and from what has already been created by God. We can design, though again, finite, and within the confines of what exists. (Again, we cannot design or make from nothing.) We can reason, though within the finite expanse of creation, and within our own fallibility. (Our own, not His, since He is not fallible.)

You give too much glory to Lucifer.

The angels that sinned were locked up.

I place their restriction/incarceration between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, before God created man.

God did duplicate aspects of His nature in man. However, it is but a dim reflection.

Is it the actual or a reflection? You say two opposite things.

Not deity, but His nature. Why do you keep saying God lied when it says He created man in His image? It is not that we look like Him, but that our nature is a pale reflection of His own. We can reason. We can create (make being a better description). We can design. We can do all kinds of things that God can do, but we can only do it to a much much less degree. When God was done creating, He looked and said that it was good. Since when was sin considered good?

The image of God is not a natural man but the Son of God. There is no better image of a Father than a Son.

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person,
Heb 1:3.

He didn't create God. He created man, and made man in His image. A pale reflection of that which is found in God, but not that which makes God God.

A reflection does not possess the actual Nature of God.

She had some of the nature of God, but that which was a reflection of man, since woman was taken from man.

If man possess any one Nature or Deific Attributes of God, then they would by necessity possess ALL the Nature or Deific Attributes of God or they would fall short. The word for that is sin.

Except that isn't how it is at all. Man was created sinless, though God purposed for whatever reason, that man would sin, and God would redeem. It is beyond our capability to understand His purpose in it, but dimly. (For His glory, obviously, but there is much more to it then we can hope to comprehend/understand)

So, sin comes from sinlessness? God is sinless. How long before God sin since you say sin comes from sinlessness?

Angels sin no more.
As can be seen here, there sin was no action of God. It was their action. They sinned.
Actually, if you continue reading you would find that it was in the days prior to Noah, and it was the reason why God sent the flood in the first place. However, you would only know that if you read the other passages in scripture dealing with this.
I said there were three categories of sin. The lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the one I didn't word properly, the boastful pride of life. You can find this in John's epistles, since he states it.

You bifurcate sin into sections? Sin is sin. It is a "missing the mark" of the glory of God.

Yes, but those temptations are going to be in the realm of the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and/or the boastful pride of life.

The same temptations afflicting Jesus.

Yes, it was the human part that was tested. I fully agree. The humanity was in full communion with the deity (the two natures in perfect communion/fellowship) and thus the flesh overcame the temptation through the Word of God.

Sort of. The point was that Moses prophesied of Christ, so if they didn't listen to Moses, they wouldn't understand/know/recognize Him.

Therefore, it is necessary to know the Torah in order to know the Lord.
If you don't know and understand the Torah which spoke of Jesus, then only taking the New Covenant Scriptures from Matthew to Revelation as your basis for understanding the salvation of the LORD and salvation of the Jews then you really do not know or understand the Lord.