Gen 6...who are the sons of God?

[CrowCross]

Gen 6...who are the sons of God?

Are they descendents of Seth?
Are they descendents of Cain?
Are they powerful human rulers?
Are they angels?

Who and or what are the Nephilim the offspring of the marriages?


Gen 6
1 Now when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they took as wives whomever they chose.

3 So the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days shall be 120 years.”

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and afterward as well—when the sons of God had relations with the daughters of men. And they bore them children who became the mighty men of old, men of renown.

 

[Arial]

Gen 6...who are the sons of God?

Are they descendents of Seth?
Are they descendents of Cain?
Are they powerful human rulers?
Are they angels?

Who and or what are the Nephilim the offspring of the marriages?


Gen 6
1 Now when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they took as wives whomever they chose.

3 So the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days shall be 120 years.”

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and afterward as well—when the sons of God had relations with the daughters of men. And they bore them children who became the mighty men of old, men of renown.

The etymology of Nephilim is this:

From the verb נפל (napal), to fall, which appears to have to do with the verb פלל (palal), to distinguish, or פלה (pala), to be extraordinary.From the noun νεφελη (nephele), cloud.

The meaning becomes the fallen/falling Ones, the extradordinary ones, cloud people (rain makers, river formers.)

There are three main interpretations of these passages which you mention but lets also take a closer look, and see which best fits solidly into the whole of scripture which from beginning to end is the story of redemption.

Sons of God:

The traditional Christian interpretation: Sethites---the line of the Seed who would crush the serpents head.

As angels: The earliest Jewish interpretation.

As royal tyrannical successors to Lamech.

All can be supported linguistically

The first best fits the immediate preceding context which is a contrast of the curse laden line of Cain with the godly line of Seth. If sons of God denotes Seth's line the daughters of man likely refers to Cainite women. The intermarriage of the two lines explains why Noah is the sole righteous ofspring.

The second contradicts Jesus. statement in Mark, that angels do not marry. It also does not explain why the focus is on mortals (v 3) and the judgment is on mortals (vs 5-7)

The third lacks ancient support and would demand that "sons of God" applied to people who were anything but God-like.

The Nephilim in v 6 according to the first view would not be the offspring of angels mating with men, but the combining of the Cainite line with the Seth line producing a people of extraordinary stature and also extraordinarily evil.

(Information taken from text notes in Reformation Study Bible, NKJV)

 

[CrowCross]

The etymology of Nephilim is this:

From the verb נפל (napal), to fall, which appears to have to do with the verb פלל (palal), to distinguish, or פלה (pala), to be extraordinary.From the noun νεφελη (nephele), cloud.

The meaning becomes the fallen/falling Ones, the extradordinary ones, cloud people (rain makers, river formers.)

There are three main interpretations of these passages which you mention but lets also take a closer look, and see which best fits solidly into the whole of scripture which from beginning to end is the story of redemption.

Sons of God:

The traditional Christian interpretation: Sethites---the line of the Seed who would crush the serpents head.

As angels: The earliest Jewish interpretation.

As royal tyrannical successors to Lamech.

All can be supported linguistically

The first best fits the immediate preceding context which is a contrast of the curse laden line of Cain with the godly line of Seth. If sons of God denotes Seth's line the daughters of man likely refers to Cainite women. The intermarriage of the two lines explains why Noah is the sole righteous ofspring.

I don't see the first as the best fit. Why would Cains human descendent marrying human women produce the giant Nephilim?

The second contradicts Jesus. statement in Mark, that angels do not marry.

I have to strongly disagree....All the verse says is that the angels don't marry in heaven. It says nothing about being able to produce or not produce offspring with humans.

From here the Gen 6 theology splits and goes down the road of the fallen angels leaving their first estate as presented in Jude 1:6.

It also does not explain why the focus is on mortals (v 3) and the judgment is on mortals (vs 5-7)

The third lacks ancient support and would demand that "sons of God" applied to people who were anything but God-like.

(Information taken from text notes in Reformation Study Bible, NKJV)

In the book of Job angels are presented as the sons of God.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The second contradicts Jesus. statement in Mark, that angels do not marry. It also does not explain why the focus is on mortals (v 3) and the judgment is on mortals (vs 5-7)

Not exactly. The same quote from Matthew 22:30 further explains that, saying, "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God IN HEAVEN." That is the elect, obedient angels in heaven that do not marry. The point being that the fallen angels disobeyed that restriction on their species, and "left their first habitation" in heaven (Jude 6) to marry human women and beget sons which became giants. @CrowCross got this right above.

The judgment was not only on mortals. God's judgment fell on ALL types of flesh species, as in Genesis 6:12-13. "And God looked upon the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for ALL flesh had corrupted its way upon the earth." That means the flesh of mankind was not the only type of flesh that had become corrupted and was going to be destroyed. The hybrid angel / human giants were going to be destroyed, as well as any beasts with the breath of life. God said in Genesis 6:3 that mankind was "ALSO" made of flesh - meaning that sons of God as angels were also fleshly beings of another type of substance.

Angels had a certain flesh type which Paul called "celestial bodies" in 1 Cor. 15:40, in contrast to "terrestrial bodies" of mankind. These different types of bodies were not made to mingle with each other. In disobedience, the fallen angels broke that barrier and mingled their type of celestial bodies with the human daughters of men with their terrestrial bodies (thereby becoming "unclean" by association with fallen mankind).

Noah apparently was a from a family which had not been corrupted by this practice, and therefore God could use his family to propagate descendants after the flood without that hybrid corruption of the gene pool.

 

[Arial]

I don't see the first as the best fit. Why would Cains human descendent marrying human women produce the giant Nephilim?

In order to answer that question one would need a full DNA/gene workup on all parties involved. The fact that we do not have that does not in any way negate the possibility. We are told that some peoples by intermixing did produce offspring taller and larger than the Isralites---such as the Caananites. The line of different large peoples are given in Numbers. (Which begs the question, how did any of these hybrid people survive the flood. More evidence for sons of God to be referring to the line of Seth, the line of the Redeemer.) And don't forget that concerning Jacob and the multiplying of the flocks, God gives Jacob and by extension us, a mini lesson in genetics, without explaining the science involved.

I have to strongly disagree....All the verse says is that the angels don't marry in heaven. It says nothing about being able to produce or not produce offspring with humans.

Yes, you have said this. But you focus on "in heaven" in order to have it say something it does not say. That being that angels do procreate on earth.

From here the Gen 6 theology splits and goes down the road of the fallen angels leaving their first estate as presented in Jude 1:6.

And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. (NIV)


And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— (ESV)


There is no such thing as theology splitting and going down a different road. Fallen angels is not even theology. You are interpreting this passage and the Gen 6 passage according to the book of Enoch. The Bible tells us that angels are messengers, they have duties, they have positions, and it is these that the fallen angels left. The passage does not say they came to earth and and married the daughters of men.

In the book of Job angels are presented as the sons of God.

Yes. In other places particular men God is using for His purposes in redemption are called sons of God. The redeemed are called sons of God. All are true. What we must do is find what God meant within the immediate context, and in a way that is also consistent with the whole of scripture. And not by bringing the book of Enoch, which has no authority (and for good reason) into the equation.

 

[3 Resurrections]

What we must do is find what God meant within the immediate context, and in a way that is also consistent with the whole of scripture. And not by bringing the book of Enoch, which has no authority (and for good reason) into the equation.

We don't even need the book of Enoch to understand that the angels in Jude were condemned for "going after OTHER flesh" than their own type of celestial-fleshed bodies.

 

[Arial]

We don't even need the book of Enoch to understand that the angels in Jude were condemned for "going after OTHER flesh" than their own type of celestial-fleshed bodies.

The book of Jude says nothing about angels going after other flesh than their own type. Let me ask you this. Is the book of Jude about angels or is the book of Jude about false teachers? Let's put the whole book together instead of jumping to conclusions derived from a couple of verses.

Greeting​

1 Jude, a servant[a] of Jesus Christ and brother of James,

To those who are called, beloved in God the Father and kept for[b] Jesus Christ:

2 May mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.

Judgment on False Teachers​

3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved[c] a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire,[d] serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

8 Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones. 9 But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” 10 But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively. 11 Woe to them! For they walked in the way of Cain and abandoned themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam's error and perished in Korah's rebellion. 12 These are hidden reefs[e] at your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.

14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, 15 to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” 16 These are grumblers, malcontents, following their own sinful desires; they are loud-mouthed boasters, showing favoritism to gain advantage.

A Call to Persevere​

17 But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. 18 They[f] said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.” 19 It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit. 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. 22 And have mercy on those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment[g] stained by the flesh.

Doxology​

24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, 25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time[h] and now and forever. Amen.

 

[Tambora]

Are they angels?

That's the view I lean towards.

 

[Tambora]

Why would Cains human descendent marrying human women produce the giant Nephilim?

Good question.
It would presuppose that giants could only be produced by sons of Cain.
And since all sons of Cain were destroyed in the flood then you could have no more giants after that, but scripture teaches there were giants after the flood.
It also presupposes that all sons of Seth remained righteous and obedient, and yet only 8 people on the entire earth were saved from the flood.
Not to mention that Genesis 6:1-4 doesn't mention Cain or Seth at all.

I have to strongly disagree....All the verse says is that the angels don't marry in heaven. It says nothing about being able to produce or not produce offspring with humans.

From here the Gen 6 theology splits and goes down the road of the fallen angels leaving their first estate as presented in Jude 1:6.

Right.
And when you take verse 6 and 7 together it becomes clear that both are speaking of a sexual desire with angels.

Jude 1 NET
(6) You also know that the angels who did not keep within their proper domain but abandoned their own place of residence, he has kept in eternal chains in utter darkness, locked up for the judgment of the great Day.
(7) So also Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighboring towns, since they indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire in a way similar to these angels, are now displayed as an example by suffering the punishment of eternal fire.

 

[Tambora]

I don't see the first as the best fit. Why would Cains human descendent marrying human women produce the giant Nephilim?

I have to strongly disagree....All the verse says is that the angels don't marry in heaven. It says nothing about being able to produce or not produce offspring with humans.

From here the Gen 6 theology splits and goes down the road of the fallen angels leaving their first estate as presented in Jude 1:6.

In the book of Job angels are presented as the sons of God.

This cannot be overlooked.
The precise Hebrew term bene ha ‘elohim that is used in Genesis 6 is only used 3 other times in scripture and in each case it refers to heavenly beings.

Job 1 NET​

(6) Now the day came when the sons of God [bene ha ‘elohim] came to present themselves before the LORD – and Satan also arrived among them.​

​

Job 2 NET​

(1) Again the day came when the sons of God [bene ha ‘elohim] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also arrived among them to present himself before the LORD.​

​

Job 38 NET​

(7) when the morning stars sang in chorus, and all the sons of God [bene ha ‘elohim] shouted for joy?​

 

[CrowCross]

The passage does not say they came to earth and and married the daughters of men.

Do you know why the angels came to earth and had children with the daughters of men?

 

[3 Resurrections]

The book of Jude says nothing about angels going after other flesh than their own type. Let me ask you this. Is the book of Jude about angels or is the book of Jude about false teachers?

The book of Jude is about all of that. Yes, the book of Jude DOES say that the angels went after "other flesh" than their own celestial type of flesh. Jude 6 mentions the angels that "kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation" being reserved in chains for judgment of the great day. "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange (heteras) flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Both the disobedient angels, and Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities of the plain all "in LIKE MANNER" went after "strange flesh". This "heteras" term means "other, or different" flesh. This wasn't just homosexual activity that the men of Sodom engaged in, since that is two individuals of the same type of terrestrial human flesh, and the same gender, engaging in fornication. The men of Sodom were desirous of engaging in fornication with angelic creatures as well.

This "going after strange (other, different) flesh" was celestial-fleshed beings of a different species becoming joined to the daughters of men with their terrestrial-fleshed bodies, and those angels begetting sons from those human women whom they had married.

These angel / human marriages in Genesis 6 had "defiled the flesh" by the originally-righteous angels marrying the daughters of men who had inherited Adam's fallen nature. These forbidden unions rendered the angels "unclean" by becoming one flesh with fallen humanity via those marriages. This sin was like Sodom and Gomorrah, as well as the men of Jude verse 4 & 8 & 11 who had also "defiled the flesh" by succumbing to the lascivious "doctrine of Balaam" which Revelation 2:14 and 2 Peter 2: 15 also described, and which was making inroads in the churches during those days.

It's the same sensual, lascivious sin participated in by the angels to begin with, then Sodom and Gomorrah, then Balaam, then those who were following the "doctrine of Balaam" in the early church. ALL of these in one way or another were examples of those who had "defiled the flesh" in opposition to God's commands.

But you needn't worry that this problem of angels marrying human women will emerge again on the earth. Only the "elect angels" are left now. All the angels that disobeyed were destroyed in the "great day" back in AD 70, along with their leader Satan, as well as every unclean spirit that ever resulted from all those hybrid angel / human sons that were ever born. This entire realm of evil angelic creatures is long dead by now.

 

[Tambora]

(Which begs the question, how did any of these hybrid people survive the flood.

They didn't.
The nephilim and all of mankind except Noah & family were destroyed in the flood, but the angels were not destroyed.
The sons of God (angels) are not the nephilim, the nephilim are the offspring of the sons of God and human women.
And that is why the view that sons of Seth marring daughters of Cain cannot be in view because none of Cain's offspring survived the flood and therefore could not happen again after that.

 

[Arial]

They didn't.
The nephilim and all of mankind except Noah & family were destroyed in the flood, but the angels were not destroyed.
The sons of God (angels) are not the nephilim, the nephilim are the offspring of the sons of God and human women.
And that is why the view that sons of Seth marring daughters of Cain cannot be in view because none of Cain's offspring survived the flood and therefore could not happen again after that.

4 The Nephilim[b] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

 

[Arial]

Do you know why the angels came to earth and had children with the daughters of men?

You know I don't think they did, so how could I give an answer to that? But by all means, tell me your theory.

 

[Red Baker]

Not exactly. The same quote from Matthew 22:30 further explains that, saying, "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God IN HEAVEN." That is the elect, obedient angels in heaven that do not marry. The point being that the fallen angels disobeyed that restriction on their species, and "left their first habitation" in heaven (Jude 6) to marry human women and beget sons which became giants. @CrowCross got this right above.

The judgment was not only on mortals. God's judgment fell on ALL types of flesh species, as in Genesis 6:12-13. "And God looked upon the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for ALL flesh had corrupted its way upon the earth." That means the flesh of mankind was not the only type of flesh that had become corrupted and was going to be destroyed. The hybrid angel / human giants were going to be destroyed, as well as any beasts with the breath of life. God said in Genesis 6:3 that mankind was "ALSO" made of flesh - meaning that sons of God as angels were also fleshly beings of another type of substance.

Angels had a certain flesh type which Paul called "celestial bodies" in 1 Cor. 15:40, in contrast to "terrestrial bodies" of mankind. These different types of bodies were not made to mingle with each other. In disobedience, the fallen angels broke that barrier and mingled their type of celestial bodies with the human daughters of men with their terrestrial bodies (thereby becoming "unclean" by association with fallen mankind).

Noah apparently was a from a family which had not been corrupted by this practice, and therefore God could use his family to propagate descendants after the flood without that hybrid corruption of the gene pool.

3 Resurrections you are everywhere I go! I cannot believe you buy into this strange interpretation.

Nephilim Heresy ~Did angels have wild sex with women? Birthing a sci-fi mongrel race of superhuman persons? Is this what Genesis 6:1-2 teaches? Or is there another lesson far more important? ​

I believe you and I have discussed this on another forum a few years back, but we can do it again, no problem.

 

[CrowCross]

You know I don't think they did, so how could I give an answer to that? But by all means, tell me your theory.

There are several reasons...
1) To pollute the human race so the Messiah Jesus Christ could not be born through it.
2) To legally be allowed to have dominion over the earth. Being part human the giants could have dominion over the earth as the fallen watcher angels could use the nephilim as proxies.

There was some sort of exchange for "knowledge?...technology? between the Humans and the angels. The angels got dominance. They still have it.

Jesus who is God came as a man...a human....and as a man the risen Jesus has the right to take back the dominance the angels began to in "Gen 6".

 

[CrowCross]

3 Resurrections you are everywhere I go! I cannot believe you buy into this strange interpretation.

Nephilim Heresy ~Did angels have wild sex with women?​

No, they got married....they followed the legal means.

 

[Arial]

The book of Jude is about all of that. Yes, the book of Jude DOES say that the angels went after "other flesh" than their own celestial type of flesh. Jude 6 mentions the angels that "kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation" being reserved in chains for judgment of the great day. "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange (heteras) flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

The fact that Jude mentions these things does not mean that is what the letter is about. This is what the letter is about, that was such a concerning matter to Jude, that he intended to write for one reason and purpose but was compelled to change direction. This is what the letter is about, and what should be our takeaway, not endless speculation about angels. Jude is merely giving an example of the false teachers and how serious the matter was for Christ's church.



3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Certainly our takeaway should not be to bypass the message, therefore never taking it to heart, and teach and lead a futher wandering off of a different type, into wild speculations (of which the rest of your post is full of, though are stated as absolutes when there are other legitimate interpretations.) And by legitimate I mean they do not violate the word of God in any way, and imo, keep the singular "story" of the Bible the story of redemption playing out in our history.

As in any other story, or book, or individual life, there is consistency with the Bible, yet the Bible is also like no other book or story for it contains The Truth, and is God revealing Himself and His actions in redemption, in our history. It has a beginning a middle and an end. We have the beginning, we have the tragedy that plummeted mankind and creation into slavery and darkness, alienated from God. And we have the pronouncement of God on the serpent that sets off the following war, the arrival of the promise, the continued war but also a victory at the cross, and the final consummation of the promise. And what was that promise?

The seed of the woman whose heel Satan would bruise and whose head the Seed would crush. That Seed is in the line of Seth. The line of Seth is in Noah. Everything else is the line of Cain. That is the point of Gen 6---imo.

 

[Arial]

There are several reasons...
1) To pollute the human race so the Messiah Jesus Christ could not be born through it.
2) To legally be allowed to have dominion over the earth. Being part human the giants could have dominion over the earth as the fallen watcher angels could use the nephilim as proxies.

There was some sort of exchange for "knowledge?...technology? between the Humans and the angels. The angels got dominance. They still have it.

Jesus who is God came as a man...a human....and as a man the risen Jesus has the right to take back the dominance the angels began to in "Gen 6".

Nothing quite like making it up as we go along. As for me, I will just stick to the points being made, the message that is given clearly, and not try and peer into what cannot be seen and is not told----and then present what my imagination conjures as being absolute, to the brethren. Especially since there are alternate views that simply partake of what is given and can be known. And that don't insert an irrelevant confusion into the mix.

But that is just me. And I can be no other than me.