The MOTHER of All Sin....

[Mr GLee]

No, it's just that sin wasn't FOUND IN HIM yet.
It was always there.

They were created with an potential to sin. . it was there the letter of the law death they chose death

Believers can receive new born again spirit of through spirit of the law The unseen law of faith the eternal things of Christ not seen the husband .

Romans 7:5-7King James Version5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[TMSO]

The Law reflects God's Holy, Righteous Nature. The only Person who could obey every aspect of the Law is the Son of God. And He did. He fulfilled the very Word(s) He gave to Moses to give to the children of Israel.
Jesus can never make us God. Impossible to do because as Isaiah said, "There is ONLY ONE God, there is NONE like Him, He gives His glory to NO ONE. There is ONLY ONE God. The Only Person who can stand before a Holy, Righteous God is a Holy, Righteous Son. This is why I believe along with other important truths, that God created man sinful, or as Strong defines the word "sin" as "missing the mark." What is the "mark missed?"
The glory of God, or the glory that is God.
Saul said in Romans 7, "The Law is spiritual." This is why it killeth. Because man is unatoned flesh. But once we become born again by the Spirit, we become spiritual beings, and the Law can no longer kill us. But to the unatoned it will kill them. They remain body and soul, the same way they were born into the world, and unless converted, cast into "hell" (Matt. 10:28.) In its original form the Law is not death. It cannot be. It comes from God who is Life. It is only its effect upon man who is flesh.


There are several meanings to the word but the one that is applicable is "measure" or "rule."

Thou shalt not eat of it, thou shalt not kill. What God says is Law. When God says, "bear no longer any figs" it is done. Adam was created sinful because there is only ONE God. Anything God creates will be by default be sinful, oir less than God. Even if man was not created and God stopped after creating heaven and earth, both heaven and earth will degenerate into chaos, which is the prevailing science today. The Law of entropy. Everything breaks down. Everything dies. Even man.

Let me guess. The serpent to you is Lucifer or Satan, right? That would be impossible since the angels that sinned were locked up (2 Peter 2:4.) And they weren't locked up because these sinful spirit beings grew penises, had the right DNA which they didn't ("after their kind") entered holy matrimony, and married physical women and had children. Such a false belief is very problematic. The angels, also a creation, were created sinful like the man and iniquity was found in their heart and even before they could act to ascend into heaven God dealt with them immediately and locked them up before man was created.

Sin comes from sinner. Isaiah says God created evil; He created darkness. Sin had to come from somewhere. It didn't materialize out of nowhere. It was already in existence in creation because again, there is only ONE God. But from your response you believe we are sinners because we sin. Holding to this false belief destroys the Doctrine of Imputation. In other words, 2 Cor. 5:21 is void. It is not our acts that are sinful, but our created sinful 'less than God' nature. It doesn't say in 2 Cor. 5:21, "He became the sinful acts of man that we may be made the righteous acts of God in Christ." This leaves the sin nature intact. No, it says, "He became sin that we might be made the [actual] righteousness of God." If our sinful nature is not converted from sinful to holiness, then we are still sinners on our way to heaven. How preposterous is that!

Gentile theology. "Federal head." The word "good" merely means "good enough" or "to specification." In other words, after God created something, He was pleased with the outcome and says, "it is good to my specification."
There is no moral aspect to this Hebrew word. We say the same thing as when a recipe is followed to specification, and it is good, good enough.

Babies that grow up eat meat and know what chicken tastes like unless they were never fed chicken. And the philosophy behind being a 'vegan' is a lie. It's a deception. Like the theology that man was created with the Nature or Deific Attributes of God like holiness or sinlessness. It's all a lie.

Adam didn't need to sin to be a sinner. By virtue of his creation, he was already sinful. It says, By one man sin entered," it doesn't say, "by the act of sin, sin entered." "From Adam until Moses sin was in the world." It doesn't say, When Adam sinned then sin was in the world."

Typical false Gentile theology void of any biblical truth. I used to believe that crap until Scripture contradicted that theology. I chose Scripture. The alternative is to choose the false theology of Gentiles then make the Scripture fit that narrative. Democrats, liberals, radical liberals, even liberals in the Gentile church fellowship during the mid-to-late 1800s taught that false theology. Then, in the 1920s the Dallas Theological Seminary was founded to challenge all those liberal teachings of the north that found its way into the Gentile churches in America. This why our American universities all produce radical liberals. At one time universities and colleges in this country were founded by Christians and the faculty were Christians. But liberals began to take up presidencies and liberals ousted Christian leaderships and took over their campuses. The same thing occurred in the Gentile churches. Liberalism took over. Unsaved men took over Christian schools and changed them from God-honoring places of learning to Godless places of chaos and antichristian thought. You've been infected by their false theology and influenced to the point that when Scripture contradicts your beliefs, you make the Scripture to fit your narrative. Even to the point that if you can't twist Scripture or explain it away, you reject it outright.

What you are missing is that if God created sin/evil, that means it proceeded out of Him. And that which proceeds out of a person show us who they are. You make God, who is sinless, a sinner. God did not create sin. God did not create evil. Again, the word evil is used to define the absence of something, and as such, technically does not exist. Light bulbs are not dark suckers. Darkness is the absence of light. Technically darkness does not exist. Cold is the absence of the motion of atoms/elements. It technically does not exist. We use the word to describe the absence of that energy we call heat/hot. So please, for the sake of your soul, stop painting God as a sinner. PLEASE. It hurts to read.

Adam was created sinless, but with the capacity to sin. God has no capacity to sin. Adam is already different. Adam became a sinner once he sinned. He went from being innocent, to being a sinner. If Adam had not sinned, the world would be different. Very different. We do not know anything about the angels creation, and for you just to step out there and basically revile them, is walking on very dangerous ground. Why? God, in scripture, commands that we NOT revile the angels/illuminaries who serve God. Yet, here you are.

Now, to help you, Paul is saying that it is by one man, that is, by one man's action, that sin entered the world, and by sin, death. Didn't God not say that they would die IF they eat the fruit of the tree? If they were already dying/going to die, why would God tell them they would die if they ate of the tree? Did they? I mean they were still walking around after they ate the fruit. Yes. The death God spoke of was the separation of man from God, because God is life. The life of man came from God, who breathed into the man the breath of life. Man's spirit, that breath of life, died when Adam ate the fruit. And that death became a part of life for all humanity. For by one man (and is action, you have to understand that word "by" greatly affects the meaning of the verse), sin ENTERED (it wasn't already here) the world, and by sin came death.

Please. Stop denigrating God. God created a perfect world, with the capacity to become imperfect. The one in whom everything hinged upon was Adam. He was sinless (he had not sinned, had no sin) until the moment he sinned. He was innocent, in that he did not know what sin was. This is why scripture has the serpent/lucifer telling Eve that God knows that when they eat of the tree, that their eyes will be open, and they will be like the Most High. It was not a straight up lie, but deceit. Their eyes were opened. However, they could never be like the Most High in that HE is the one who set the standard of sin. Man cannot do that. Their eyes were opened, and they knew they had sinned against God, by not obeying Him. The reason it is deceit is that God does know the difference between good and evil. However, that is not where it ends. In Adam and Eve's case, that is where it ended. They now knew the difference between good and evil. Their eyes were open due to their action. They "fell". Another term used is "fall from innocence".

Again, God knew it would happen. Not because God created evil, or created Adam evil. The argument on whether God authored evil has gone on for centuries. This is the same argument used to disprove calvinism. Calvin answered such questions in books back in his day. And it is because he believed that God sovereign that God did not author evil, but used it. Since evil is the absence of God, that is good, evil isn't created. It is the absence of good. That is something that is not created/authored.

 

[jeremiah1five]

What you are missing is that if God created sin/evil, that means it proceeded out of Him. And that which proceeds out of a person show us who they are. You make God, who is sinless, a sinner.

God is Holy, Sinless, Righteous, Omniscience, Omnipotent, All-Wise, Love, Grace, and a host of other things revealed in Scripture, but God is not a sinner (or sinful) because the word "sin means "[to] "miss the mark" and the "mark" missed" is the glory of God, or the glory that is God. Let me explain something.

God commanded Moses to build an earthly Tabernacle that was fashioned/patterned after the Heavenly Tabernacle. Revelation 13: 8 reveals that a "lamb was slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world." Before God created anything He was busy at work in some form and did His own sacrifice in the Heavenly Tabernacle. Later, God commanded Moses to build an earthly Tabernacle. Before the high priest could enter the Holy of Holies, he had to perform the following before He could stand before the actual Presence of God.

There was a ritual bathing, special garments, sacrifices for himself and his household, burning incense, sprinkling blood on the Mercy Seat, and then taking one of two goats and offer that for the sins of the people. The point I want to focus on is the sacrifice for his sins and for the sins of the people (children of Israel.) Scripture says that "[God] is a Priest FOREVER after order of Melchisedec." Scripture also says that "Christ, not Jesus, is a Priest forever after the order of Melchisedec. Having a High Priest in God and a Heavenly Tabernacle, God performed several things in this Heavenly Tabernacle such as offer a lamb which enabled several things before God would create [our] heaven, earth, and man, such as "blood of the prophets was shed before the foundation/creation of the world (Lk. 11:50), Christ was foreordained before the foundation/creation of the world (1 Peter 1:20), a people were chosen in Christ before the foundation/creation of the world (Eph. 1:4), a kingdom was prepared before the foundation/creation of the world (Matt. 25:34), things spoken by God which were kept secret but to be revealed in parables before the foundation/creation of the world (Matt. 13:35), works were finished before the foundation/creation of the world (Heb. 4:3), Christ/Logos suffered since before the foundation/creation of the world and then once at the end of the world appearing once to put away the sins of this chosen people (children of Israel) by the sacrifice of Himself (Heb. 9:26), the Father loved the Son/Christ/Logos before the foundation/creation of the world (Jn. 17:24), and God did this excluding people not chosen (written in the book of life from the foundation/creation of the world (Rev. 17: 8), so there were some things happening in the Heavenly Tabernacle by Trinity God all taking place from [before the foundation/creation of the world (heaven, earth, and man.) The ministry of the earthly high priest mimicked the Service and Ministry of the Heavenly High Priest who is FOREVER after the order of Melchisedec for good reason.

Since Isaiah said, "there is only ¹one God, there is ²none like Him, and ³He gives His glory to no one" proves to me that heaven, earth, and man - but man especially - were created sinful or "missing the mark" of the glory of God. Our heaven (first heaven - the atmosphere from the ground to outer space, and second heaven - outer space where the moon, planets, and stars reside - as well as earth are not eternal.
lacking eternalness (a glory of God) means that material creation will "die" or descend into chaos until it is burned up (2 Peter 3:10), and a God creates a new heaven and earth. What form this will take is up to discussion but isn't relevant at this point to what I am saying.

This takes us to man. Obviously, he was not created eternal which is a glory of God (number 3 on Isaiah's list.) Nor was he created sinless (which is a glory of God - number 1, 2, 3, on Isaiah's list.) Now, if man was created sinful or "missing the mark" and fallen short of the glory of God, then the question arises of immense importance: "How can a Righteous God create and unrighteous being"?
The answer?
A lamb was slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world.
This sacrifice brought about all those things I listed from Scripture above in the third paragraph.
Although God is Sinless, this lamb sacrifice allowed God to proceed with His Plan for Man and begin the creation process and everything in history from that point on. Sin is offensive to God. It shouldn't even be allowed to exist where God exists but this sacrifice in pre-creation also allowed God to be longsuffering towards sin in creation and in man. Although God is Sinless the duties the earthly high priest, a sinful man cleansed and atoned, allowed him to come into the Presence of the unmatched Holiness and Sinlessness of Almighty God. The lamb sacrifice in the Heavenly Tabernacle worked the same way which allowed a Righteous God to create and unrighteous being and in doing so, as Isaiah said that which God said:

5 I am the LORD, and there is none else,
There is no God beside me:
I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
That there is none beside me.
I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:5–7.

Thus, anything God creates will be 'less' than God, fall short of His glory, and "miss the mark" of the perfect, Holy, and Sinless, existence of Creator God.

God did not create sin. God did not create evil. Again, the word evil is used to define the absence of something, and as such, technically does not exist. Light bulbs are not dark suckers. Darkness is the absence of light. Technically darkness does not exist. Cold is the absence of the motion of atoms/elements. It technically does not exist. We use the word to describe the absence of that energy we call heat/hot. So please, for the sake of your soul, stop painting God as a sinner. PLEASE. It hurts to read.

Adam was created sinless, but with the capacity to sin. God has no capacity to sin. Adam is already different. Adam became a sinner once he sinned. He went from being innocent, to being a sinner. If Adam had not sinned, the world would be different. Very different. We do not know anything about the angels creation, and for you just to step out there and basically revile them, is walking on very dangerous ground. Why? God, in scripture, commands that we NOT revile the angels/illuminaries who serve God. Yet, here you are.

Now, to help you, Paul is saying that it is by one man, that is, by one man's action, that sin entered the world, and by sin, death. Didn't God not say that they would die IF they eat the fruit of the tree? If they were already dying/going to die, why would God tell them they would die if they ate of the tree? Did they? I mean they were still walking around after they ate the fruit. Yes. The death God spoke of was the separation of man from God, because God is life. The life of man came from God, who breathed into the man the breath of life. Man's spirit, that breath of life, died when Adam ate the fruit. And that death became a part of life for all humanity. For by one man (and is action, you have to understand that word "by" greatly affects the meaning of the verse), sin ENTERED (it wasn't already here) the world, and by sin came death.

Another term used is "fall from innocence".

Innocence is irrelevant. What is more important is that if I am correct then innocence would only apply to man's existence BEFORE the Command of 'thou shalt not eat of it' ever came forth, but in man's creative existence he was sinful and by being sinful his sin is relational to the command and not to his 'make up.' One thing that shows him a sinner before the act of sin in eating the forbidden tree is that they added to God's word when they said, "Neither shall ye touch it" and although there was no such command prohibiting it (Prov. 30:6), their doing so evidences they were sinners from which they also sinned again in eating from the prohibited tree.
Sin comes from sinner and man was created sinful because there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE.

The argument on whether God authored evil has gone on for centuries.

ibid.
That argument should be laid to rest. The question has been answered.
And I know and understand the true, biblical Christianity of the New Covenant and the false Gentile theology of the Gentiles which unmoored biblical Christianity from its Hebrew roots 1900 years ago and after the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple.

 

[Mr GLee]

God commanded Moses to build an earthly Tabernacle that was fashioned/patterned after the Heavenly Tabernacle. Revelation 13: 8 reveals that a "lamb was slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world." Before God created anything He was busy at work in some form and did His own sacrifice in the Heavenly Tabernacle. Later, God commanded Moses to build an earthly Tabernacle. Before the high priest could enter the Holy of Holies, he had to perform the following before He could stand before the actual Presence of God.

I would offer

God said to his apostle, prophet Samuel as a Judge. Give to those who gather themselves together not called by Me ) because of their jealousy of all the surrounding pagan nations. The Pagan foundation "out of sight out of mind" (I know not where my brother Abel is ) as in who believes in an invisible King of kings?

The fool has said their heart. There is no Emmauel. . Just a figment of one's imagination.

He gave those atheist Jews over until the time of the first century reformation, destroying the abomination of desolation, temple made with the hands of dying mankind rendering useless to deceive the nations.

We should go to the foundation of the matter. David in the Psalms declared the will of the Holy Father. "If the foundation is destroyed"? What could the born again beleiver do?

1 Samuael 8: 4-7 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

That time period (abomination of desolation) was used as a parable called a figure in order to signy (use the temloral dying things seen to give us the spirutl understand hid for the Pagan nations .Puting a end to temples made with the dying hands of mankind retoring the old Mankind as the temple God works in

Temples made with dying hands as a will. . . never came with the approval of Christ the invisible head.

Remember eternal Spirit sits enthroned on the circle of the earth and his children as grasshopper hop around looking for their. daily bread

(Parentheses). . . . my understanding

Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men (666) which have not the seal (777) of God in their foreheads



Hebrews 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, (using the temporal things seen as a sign of the eternal not seen )that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure (parable)for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Not the most popular teaching tool . I would offer as a opinion or private intertation

.The doctrine of the First Century reformation (sola scriptura) Its testimony the Fifteenth Century reformation patterned after the first century reformation, carbon copy... same purpose trying to make the living word (sola scriptura) to no effect so that the non-venerable stay under the authority of venerable dying mankind as an oral law. . . . . I heard it through a legion of dying father's grape vine .

I believe blivers should be careful how we hear who we say we hear. He who gives us ears to hear Hid understanding, warns us of those who would seduce us to believe we do need sinful dying mankind to teach us (1 John 2:26-27

Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the one God of my father, all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Worship one Holy Father. . . Christ

It kind of makes me wonder when he comes on the last day will he find faith "looking the unseen eternal things of God, Hidden, faith as a labor of His love. Or mankind from Missouri (show me) walking after the temporal things seen

I would think a dark place in need of the light of the gospel. . . the light is there. Hidden under its cover .And in the beginning the light was God alone good. .

Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.