Free Will ~yet again.

[Ritajanice]

By way of example:
At what point in your life did you chose to be female which is the cause of many desires. Since you never choose to be female you never choose desires that tend to go along with being female and thus you were not FREE to control your desires. Your desires control you choices.
Similarly, you did not choose to have a sin nature. A sin nature controls your will. Therefore, you do not self-determine you will and thus your will is not free. (where "free will" is defined as self-determination)

If you say so...I will agree to disagree, unless the Spirit shows me otherwise in the word.

My will was determined to say no to God....33 yrs later I’m saying yes...all meant to be.....Gods will be done.

 

[fastfredy0]

If God wills you to become Born Again our will has no say in the matter...I dunno, just thinking out loud,LOL.

Sort of ... you are born "dead in sin" and thus your will cannot turn to God. God regenerates you which changes your will such that you willing now believe/trust in Him.

 

[Ritajanice]

Sort of ... you are born "dead in sin" and thus your will cannot turn to God. God regenerates you which changes your will such that you willing now believe/trust in Him.

What’s Born dead in sin?

 

[Mr GLee]

I really do not know what you have in mind when you speak of Christ's faith. That phrase, Christ's faith, if faith carries the meaning of Hebrews 11:1 is an oxymoron.

Faith is a work.
Many from my experiences shun the idea that God requires faith power to beleive. Faith and or with works cannot be separate and expect evidence of work .

Faith-works . Like fire works no fire no display. Called dead faith in Hebrew 6

Whenever the word faith is used in the Bible it is used in respect o the the faith of Christ the author and finisher

By faith Christ's power or labor of love working in Abraham he offered Isaac his son upon the altar? see how the faith of Christ works with his Christ works and powerfully moved Moses to do it to the good pleasure of Christ (James 2)

Christs faith as a labor of his love is a work . Impossible to separate what is faithful as work .. By faith Christ said "let there be" and "it was God alone good ".

Remember he calls born again Children you with little faith unlike un-believers no faith none not little.


Deuteronomy 32:20And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

He gives us just enough faith to please . when the disciple were commanded to do a work they knew they had little of Christ power and asked he might increase (new born again) faith as a labor of Christ love

Luke 17:4-6King James Version And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our(new born again) faith.

 

[fastfredy0]

What’s Born dead in sin?

As man cannot bring his physical body back from the dead, similarly he cannot revive his spirit which is dead from conception. Spiritual death is as real as corporeal death. This insensibility and helplessness are precisely what the word dead in both cases is meant to express. It is as literal in one case as another. It is on the ground of this analogy that much of the language descriptive of the moral and spiritual state of man, used in the Bible, is founded. The cure must be supernatural; regeneration the brings us from spiritual death to spiritual life. Author unknown

• Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened [made alive those whom were spiritually dead … no one can resurrect himself physically or spiritually], who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 In which at one time you walked [habitually]. You were following the course and fashion of this world [were under the sway of the tendency of this present age], following the prince of the power of the air. [You were obedient to and under the control of] the [demon] spirit that still constantly works in the sons of disobedience [the careless, the rebellious, and the unbelieving, who go against the purposes of God]. …4 But God, being [so very] rich in mercy, because of His great and wonderful love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were [spiritually] dead and separated from Him because of our sins, He made us [spiritually] alive together with Christ (for by His grace—His undeserved favor and mercy—you have been saved from God’s judgment).
• Colossians 2:13 “And you, being [spiritually] dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive” By saying that we were spiritually "dead," he means the kind of deadness that requires a resurrection.

 

[Ritajanice]

Faith is a work.

Faith is definitely a work after we have received that measure of faith as a gift from God.

It took me years to even understand faith....what a journey that has been.

Do I believe God who gifted me faith...or do I believe others and self....well...I 100% put my trust and faith in God....” NOW”....many years coming though!..faith must be exercised,,I didn’t even know what that meant at one time.

Just my thoughts and opinion.

 

[Ritajanice]

As man cannot bring his physical body back from the dead, similarly he cannot revive his spirit which is dead from conception. Spiritual death is as real as corporeal death. This insensibility and helplessness are precisely what the word dead in both cases is meant to express. It is as literal in one case as another. It is on the ground of this analogy that much of the language descriptive of the moral and spiritual state of man, used in the Bible, is founded. The cure must be supernatural; regeneration the brings us from spiritual death to spiritual life. Author unknown

• Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened [made alive those whom were spiritually dead … no one can resurrect himself physically or spiritually], who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 In which at one time you walked [habitually]. You were following the course and fashion of this world [were under the sway of the tendency of this present age], following the prince of the power of the air. [You were obedient to and under the control of] the [demon] spirit that still constantly works in the sons of disobedience [the careless, the rebellious, and the unbelieving, who go against the purposes of God]. …4 But God, being [so very] rich in mercy, because of His great and wonderful love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were [spiritually] dead and separated from Him because of our sins, He made us [spiritually] alive together with Christ (for by His grace—His undeserved favor and mercy—you have been saved from God’s judgment).
• Colossians 2:13 “And you, being [spiritually] dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive” By saying that we were spiritually "dead," he means the kind of deadness that requires a resurrection.

Our spirit is still alive...it’s just not in Christ as a non believer...if our spirit wasn’t alive, we’d be dead , as not breathing.

 

[fastfredy0]

Our spirit is still alive...it’s just not in Christ as a non believer...if our spirit wasn’t alive, we’d be dead , as not breathing.

I think the bible verses are analogies when speaking of a "dead spirit". A non-Christian's spirit is dead meaning it cannot respond to the salvific gospel. God must regenerate a person (make his spirit alive) to make him respond to the gospel by believing.

Think of it like a person who breaks up a relationship and says "you are dead to me". It is not a literal death, but an analogy.

 

[Mr GLee]

Faith is definitely a work after we have received that measure of faith as a gift from God.

It took me years to even understand faith....what a journey that has been.

Do I believe God who gifted me faith...or do I believe others and self....well...I 100% put my trust and faith in God....” NOW”....many years coming though!..faith must be exercised,,I didn’t even know what that meant at one time.

Just my thoughts and opinion.

Thanks for the reply I would offer.

His faith as a labor of love is given so we a can miraculously hear his understanding /believe.

Can't put trust in God if its power does not come from him any more than you or I.

LOL. .In that way my wife trust me as her apostle and sends me on a mission to the supermarket with a written list not to add to or subtract from it Upon returning the two peanut butter cookies and a glass of milk the apostles gold star award .

 

[Ritajanice]

I think the bible verses are analogies when speaking of a "dead spirit". A non-Christian's spirit is dead meaning it cannot respond to the salvific gospel. God must regenerate a person (make his spirit alive) to make him respond to the gospel by believing.

Think of it like a person who breaks up a relationship and says "you are dead to me". It is not a literal death, but an analogy.

Only Gods witness His Living Holy Spirit can bring our spirit Alive in Christ...

 

[Ritajanice]

Thanks for the reply I would offer.

His faith as a labor of love is given so we a can miraculously hear his understanding /believe.

That can take years to understand..for me anyway.

Can't put trust in God if its power does not come from him any more than you or I.

Exactly...we must be Born Of God’s “ Living “ seed...the Holy Spirit

LOL. .In that way my wife trust me as her apostle and sends me on a mission to the supermarket with a written list not to add to or subtract from it Upon returning the two peanut butter cookies and a glass of milk the apostles gold star award .

Lol.

 

[Mr GLee]

Our spirit is still alive...it’s just not in Christ as a non believer...if our spirit wasn’t alive, we’d be dead , as not breathing.

Amen
I would offer.

The wage of sin. . . . . . .In dying. . . you will come to a end death .Satan,. . . . you will not surely die.

Believers living in bodies of death they have the treasure of power to hear and do the good will of Christ the husband . The bride would never say she has the power .(Blasphemy Jezebel )

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[Ritajanice]

Amen
I would offer.

The wage of sin. . . . . . .In dying. . . you will come to a end death .Satan,. . . . you will not surely die.

Believers living in bodies of death they have the treasure of power to hear and do the good will of Christ the husband . The bride would never say she has the power .(Blasphemy Jezebel )

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

All Glory to God!!...Brother.

 

[Carbon]

To you.

Definitely 100% yes to me....Gods will can never be thwarted...when he chooses who become Born Of His seed.

How does your will have a say in the matter?

That’s if that’s what your saying in your post.

Before your born again you are not willing, right?
After your born again, your willing, right?

 

[Ritajanice]

Before your born again you are not willing, right?

Willing to not what, makes no sense?...how would I even know what “ Born Again” meant as an unregenerate..that would have been gobbledygook as a non believer.

After your born again, your willing, right?

After I’m Born Again I’m in the will of God...Born Of God’s seed...I am His and no other..to use me as he so pleases...all for His Glory of course.

Gods will brings my will inline/ harmony with his will.by the renewing of our minds.only he can grow and mature us....
Short commentary.
God wants all of us to grow. Maturity is one of his purposes for our lives. In fact, Hebrews 6:1 tells us, “Let's press on to maturity” (CEB). God intends for us to always pursue spiritual growth so that we may “be conformed to the image of his Son” (Romans 8:29 ESV

..just my thoughts.

 

[Mr GLee]

That can take years to understand..for me anyway.

Sat in the back of the class embarrassed to raise hand I am a slow learner on a learning curve . . .open book test. Christ our confidence a excellent teaching master I believe spoken of below

Phipipians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[Ritajanice]

Sat in the back of the class embarrassed to raise hand I am a slow learner on a learning curve . . .open book test. Christ our confidence a excellent teaching master I believe spoken of below

Phipipians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Me too, back at class, could never raise hand confidence in the gutter.

Now, my trust and faith is in God, many a time he gives me the words to say...all for his Glory Of course.

Just my thoughts and opinion.

 

[Carbon]

Willing to not what, makes no sense?...how would I even know what “ Born Again” meant as an unregenerate..that would have been gobbledygook as a non believer.

Exactly, and therefore you would not be willing. Especially since you were at enmity with God.

After I’m Born Again I’m in the will of God...Born Of God’s seed...I am His and no other..to use me as he so pleases...all for His Glory of course.

Gods will brings my will inline/ harmony with his will.by the renewing of our minds.only he can grow and mature us....

Well there ya go. So you do know what I’m talking about even though you think you didn’t

 

[Ritajanice]

Exactly, and therefore you would not be willing. Especially since you were at enmity with God.

Amen.

Well there ya go. So you do know what I’m talking about even though you think you didn’t

We all understand each other very differently.....I am not intellectual..neither do I have to be..my faith is very simple..

I’m not sure what I post to others though..is always .” simple to understand “ for them...it is to me...of course at times I must be in error....

 

[Ritajanice]

Well there ya go. So you do know what I’m talking about even though you think you didn’t

I must admit I have to look up a lot of words many of you use...LOL.