Explain James 1:13 in view of Matthew 4:1

[makesends]

No, God did not hand Adam the fruit and did not deceive Eve. But that is not the point. I can shot a gun that causes the gun powder to propel a metal projectile through someone's heart, thus killing him. So, is it proper for me to say "it was the bullet that killed the guy, not me"? Of course not. God put everything together according to His plan. God is Spirit so you can't see the mechanism's that lead to Adam eating the fruit as we do my bullet through the heart illustration. God created Satan and Satan's desires. Satan couldn't torture Job without God's O.K. and same with Satan and Adam. God creates Adam's desires, set up a situation where Adam will sin according to God's plan, gives Satan instructions which God knows Satan will comply with, said instructions will trigger Adam's God created desires ... and voila, first sin.

In fact, it could well be argued that God incited Satan to torture Job, just as the deceiving spirit with Ahab.

 

[fastfredy0]

In fact, it could well be argued that God incited Satan to torture Job, just as the deceiving spirit with Ahab.

Yeah, lots of examples:
Isaiah 63:17 O Lord, why do You cause us to stray from Your ways And harden our heart from fearing You [with reverence and awe]? Return for Your servants’ sake, the tribes of Your heritage.

When it comes to good things Reformed people give all the glory to God (as they should)
When it comes to bad things Reformed people become Arminians

 

[fastfredy0]

Ok, I'll back off. Lol, I consider you [ @Arial ] over my depth!

oh crap ... using logic ...

Arial is above you
and you are above me
.... gee, that means both of you are above me

 

[Fred]

Well, you have a problem with that statement.
If God is immutable and yet you say He changes into a material being you have a contradiction.

You have a problem if Jesus was already incarnated before the incarnation.

Did the Word become flesh (John 1:14) or was the Word always flesh?

Something that is true at a particular time remains true for eternity.

In 1794 it would be true if someone said, "George Washington is the president now" but that same statement would be incorrect in 2024.

You are comparing two events as if they were one. The wall is red at 1 pm and the wall is green at 2 pm. Both statements are true and will always be true.

See my comment above.

 

[fastfredy0]

In 1794 it would be true if someone said, "George Washington is the president now" but that same statement would be incorrect in 2024.

How is the statement "In 1794 it would be true if someone said, "George Washington is the president now" where NOW means 1794 not true in 2024??

 

[Fred]

How is the statement "In 1794 it would be true if someone said, "George Washington is the president now" where NOW means 1794 not true in 2024??

In 2024 it would be incorrect to say, "George Washington is the president now."



You didn't answer the question I asked from my previous post.

 

[fastfredy0]

You didn't answer the question I asked from my previous post.

You have a problem if Jesus was already incarnated before the incarnation.

Assuming the above is what you were referring to .... I don't know what that means. It's like saying I was me before I was me.
So, that's why I didn't respond.

 

[Fred]

Assuming the above is what you were referring to .... I don't know what that means. It's like saying I was me before I was me.
So, that's why I didn't respond.

Here, I'll spoon-feed you:

Did the Word become flesh (John 1:14) or was the Word always flesh?

 

[fastfredy0]

Here, I'll spoon-feed you:

Thank you ... *giggle*

Did the Word become flesh?

True

Thank you for "spoon feeding" me *giggle*

I'm not sure where this is going...continue "spoon feeding me"

 

[LeviR]

Agreed that they are false gods. How does that mean that there are no real demons? Who is talking about superstition? Is, or is not, Satan, (and his minions), involved in attempting to block God's way anyhow he can? Is, or is not, Satan involved in tempting more than just Eve? Most definitely he is.

And that doesn't mean that temptations don't come from our evil desires. Satan uses those. And that doesn't mean that "the devil made me do it". It only means that Satan is involved in tempting us to sin.

I participated in a discussion of demons in a thread on the sons of God in Gen 6 where I expressed my views.

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/gen-6-who-are-the-sons-of-god.1973/page-27

 

[David Lamb]

Contradiction? Why not?
Matthew 4:1 Then Jesus was led by the [Holy] Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
James 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself tempts no one.

I don't see any contradiction. Matthew 4:1 doesn't say that God the Father or God the Holy Spirit tempted Jesus. It says that the Holy Spirit led Him into the wilderness, where the devil tempted Him.

 

[Mr GLee]

Our sin nature.

Yes, known by his living revelation. . as it is writen the living abiding word The one good teaching master .

 

[fastfredy0]

I don't see any contradiction. Matthew 4:1 doesn't say that God the Father or God the Holy Spirit tempted Jesus. It says that the Holy Spirit led Him into the wilderness, where the devil tempted Him.

Well, I see your point. Seems that Christ's temptation doesn't occur unless the Spirit takes action to see that it does. Like, I can take a person into the forest where I know there is someone there that will shot him. I grant I didn't shot him directly, but am I not part of the process. In the same manner the Spirit would be part of the process which resulted in Christ's temptation.
Using your logic, you can also say the Satan didn't tempt Christ; that only Christ's desires could tempt Him. That's true, but I say the Spirit and Satan were both causal. I could 'split hairs' further, but that's the way I see it.

 

[Fred]

God directed Satan to tempt Christ (cf. 2 Samuel 24:1; 1 Chronicles 21:1).

 

[Arial]

Consider yourself kicked... giggle

Ouch.

 

[Arial]

oh crap ... using logic ...

Arial is above you
and you are above me
.... gee, that means both of you are above me

My confession: I am above no one. Just to set the record straight.

 

[fastfredy0]

My confession: I am above no one. Just to set the record straight.

Oh, you're so sly ... claiming to be below me so you can be above me

11 But the greatest among you will be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be raised to honor.

*giggle* .. have a good day

 

[Arial]

Oh, you're so sly ... claiming to be below me so you can be above me

11 But the greatest among you will be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be raised to honor.

*giggle* .. have a good day

Back atcha.

You have a good day too.

 

[LeviR]

Oh, you're so sly ... claiming to be below me so you can be above me

11 But the greatest among you will be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be raised to honor.

*giggle* .. have a good day

It’s important to realize that James 1:13-16 is speaking of all mankind from Adam on down, including Jesus.
James does not say mankind is tempted by his own desires and also by the devil. He says that all mankind is tempted when drawn away and enticed by his own desires.

To claim that all mankind is tempted by both his own desires and by a superhuman personal devil is absurd because no distinction can be made between them.

That idea actually introduces a false god into the mind of a person. As if there is a superhuman god who is actually causing people to sin.

They need to know the truth. There is no God but the one true God. All other gods are false gods.

 

[Fred]

To claim that all mankind is tempted by both his own desires and by a superhuman personal devil is absurd because no distinction can be made between them.

Does a personal devil exist?