Eternal life, given or offered?

[Ladodgers6]

Regeneration is the revival of the spirit. It makes the spirit, once dead in trespasses and sins, alive once again as it was when God first gave it. God regenerates the person who believes in Him.

But how can a person believe without the Spirit that regenerates him?

 

[Arial]

Part of the problem with your view of regeneration is that you do not even understand why it is called REgenerate and not simply generate.

Are you sure about that? It is called REgenerate because it is reversing the first generate. From Adam to Christ.

You do not understand by it is called born again and not simply born when it has nothing whatsoever to do with the flesh and blood, but rather it has to do with the spirit

It is called born again because we were first born in Adam. Yes it is a spiritual re-birth and not one of the flesh, and it has to do with our natural bent from being made of the dust as Adam was, that we cannot escape from. We have to be re born of the Spirit.

The spirit needs to be regenerated. It was generated first by God in the womb. When one first sins, the spirit becomes dead in that sin. It needs to be REgenerated. But of course, you think God gives a spirit dead in Adam's sin or you think the spirit comes from the "fallen" parents or some other incorrect way. The spirit comes from God (Zech 12:1; Eccl 12:7). Spirit begets spirit (John 3:6). God gives each a spirit alive and well. In sinning, the spirit becomes dead in sin and needs to be made alive again, it needs to be REgenerated, it needs to be born again, it needs to be born from above.

This is nowhere supported by Scripture but is 95% conjecture.

Yes, but He determines that based upon knowing before the foundation of the world whoever, through hearing the word of God, the word about Christ, believes in God

Prove it.

Rom 1:32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

Thanks for making my point.

Oh my, You add and take away so much and produce such contradictions to what the Bible says, it is pretty sad.

You say that often but you never actually demonstrate it. Every time you do it I show you the absence of what you claim and what is there instead.

I have shown that to you in so many ways, and yet you CHOOSE to ignore it.

If you had I wouldn't be saying you hadn't.

 

[Arial]

But not a good source.

NOT THE POINT!!! The point is if you are going to argue against the doctrines argue against what they are, not what they aren't. Every conversation with you devolves into nothingness because of this type of thing.

 

[LeviR]

It is Free, meaning it's not earned by works, but given freely with no strings attached to it. And it's received by Faith Alone apart from works.

It’s earned by faith.

 

[JIM]

But how can a person believe without the Spirit that regenerates him?

Did you believe anything that your parents told you before you were born again?

 

[JIM]

Are you sure about that? It is called REgenerate because it is reversing the first generate. From Adam to Christ.

What in the world does that even mean. It is called being born again because the spirit is born again.

It is called born again because we were first born in Adam. Yes it is a spiritual re-birth and not one of the flesh, and it has to do with our natural bent from being made of the dust as Adam was, that we cannot escape from. We have to be re born of the Spirit.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with the flesh. It has to do with the spirit becoming dead in sin and being made alive again.

This is nowhere supported by Scripture but is 95% conjecture.

Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel: Thus declares the LORD, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him:

Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

And you would claim that the spirits that God gives are dead at birth. Such nonsense.

Prove it.

Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

All of that begins with those who love God. They are the ones that He knew ahead of time (foreknew) that they would love Him. And those He predestined; and those He predestined He also called. Those He called He also justified and glorified. Those are the things that work together for good.

You say that often but you never actually demonstrate it. Every time you do it I show you the absence of what you claim and what is there instead.

No, you don't

 

[JIM]

NOT THE POINT!!! The point is if you are going to argue against the doctrines argue against what they are, not what they aren't. Every conversation with you devolves into nothingness because of this type of thing.

I am just going by what I read here and elsewhere about what Calvinism is and teaches. I read the stuff from Reformed Theology. I know what it says, most of the time. I read what John Gill, and others like him, say about various passages in scripture as I study them. It read from Pink. I read from Sproul. And others as well. One of my good brothers in Christ is a confirmed Calvinist, even if he doesn't always toe the line. We have been discussing this stuff for years. I haven't persuaded him, and he hasn't persuaded me. I am not likely to persuade you, and I know full well you won't persuade me.

Against that I would be very surprised if you have studied very much at all from any non-Calvinist theologians.

 

[fastfredy0]

Don't do that!

What? Use the AMP bible translation?

 

[David Lamb]

Re: john 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life. KJV

ἠγάπησεν
Morphology: VIAA--3S Strong's: 25 Transliterated: ēgapēsen Root: ἀγαπάω
1) of persons 1a) to welcome, to entertain, to be fond of, to love dearly 2) of things 2a) to be well pleased, to be contented at or with a thing Synonym

Some translations don't have the word "so" in the verse.

Matthew 1 .... this website let's you search for a book/chapter of the bible and then you can go to right hand side and click on GREEK ... then use a mouse to go through the Greek and at the bottom as you put cursor on a Greek word above you will give a translation. Takes a little practice.

Sorry,, the Greek word I meant was the one translated "so" in John 3:16, which is οὕτω, transliterated houto, Strong's 3779. I can't find egapesam in the verse.

 

[Ladodgers6]

Did you believe anything that your parents told you before you were born again?

So, you believe that a sinner can save him/herself without God's Grace?

 

[Ladodgers6]

Did you believe anything that your parents told you before you were born again?

Only the special revelation of God's Holy Spirit that bring faith into the Heart and Mind of the ruined sinner. This Sir, is not a human act but a Divine One. Only God can raise sinners who are dead in sin and trespasses. To say one doesn't need anything from God to enter heaven, then why need God at all?

 

[JIM]

So, you believe that a sinner can save him/herself without God's Grace?

What did I say to make you think that? No one can save themselves. I don't know anyone who thinks a sinner can save himself. That has nothing whatsoever to do with whether faith comes before regeneration, which it does of course.

 

[JIM]

Only the special revelation of God's Holy Spirit that bring faith into the Heart and Mind of the ruined sinner. This Sir, is not a human act but a Divine One. Only God can raise sinners who are dead in sin and trespasses. To say one doesn't need anything from God to enter heaven, then why need God at all?

Believing in God is the act of a human. Saving the believer is an act of God. No one I know of has ever said that one doesn't need anything from God to enter heaven. I certainly didn't.

 

[Mr GLee]

Believing something and believing in something is a choice. Believing is neither instinct nor imposed.

Who gives the choice?

To believe is a work or exercise of Christ's faith or belief.

It powerfully works in us (not of us) also called labor of . . "Let there be". . . . . . . . love.

Faith, God power or labor of love that works in us

God as Emanuel work in us who have no power to believe (exercise, work of faith his in us ) His word making our hearts soft by the living water of the word . No man can turn him to choose . he is of one mind . "Let there be":

Job 23:12-16 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:

 

[JIM]

Who gives the choice?

God, through His written word.

 

[JIM]

To believe is a work or exercise of Christ's faith or belief.

Christ's faith?? A ridiculous concept.

 

[Mr GLee]

What did I say to make you think that? No one can save themselves. I don't know anyone who thinks a sinner can save himself. That has nothing whatsoever to do with whether faith comes before regeneration, which it does of course.

Whose faith as power ,? the "Let there be" as a work, labor of love. . and "it was good faith". Faith must first be defined

Faith of dying mankind or faith as power our living word of God . the "let there be" and it was good . . the creative kind.

Lucifer the father of lies as a source of false faith (power) would make it all one in the same. The lie. . .Trust exercise a faith that comes after the sign and wonders of father of lies. . the god of this world .After the temporal dying things seen.

The lust of eye, leading to the the lust of the flesh the two building block of false pride .

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father but of the world

It is how we define and use as would seem a mysterious word faith as Power.

Lucifer the chief spirit of identity theft has lying power 24/7 Accusing believers day and night through his lying sign as "wonders? ? ? (not faith . . doubt )

Ephesian 2:8-10For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of (our) works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The oposite of faith is not doubt but is no faith . . Satan the king of lying signs to wonder after, wonder, wonder wonder as in doubt or limbo.
Born again Believers have prophecy sola scriptura to the end of time no need to wonder pretend accuse falsely

The king of doubt. His only voice

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

 

[Mr GLee]

God, through His written word.

I agree not through us but through his creative living word (let there be)

He defines the us that has not gone out from His understanding of faith He gives us his understand or faith ,It turn us so that in turn we can turn toward him that has no form .

The key is as many. . as he empowers . not one more or one less.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

[Red Baker]

Christ's faith?? A ridiculous concept.

Greetings Jim~I'm back from traveling, so I will look this thread over more than I have in the last thirty minutes or so, and then post, maybe tomorrow.

We shall see just how ridiculous Christ's faith is in our legal justification from sin and condemnation.

 

[JIM]

Greetings Jim~I'm back from traveling, so I will look this thread over more than I have in the last thirty minutes or so, and then post, maybe tomorrow.

We shall see just how ridiculous Christ's faith is in our legal justification from sin and condemnation.

Hebrews gives us the definition of faith:
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Romans gives us the source of faith:
Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

Neither the definition of faith, nor the source of faith can even be a concept which could be assigned or connected with Jesus. The very phrase, Jesus' faith, is an oxymoron. It makes no sense. It cannot be attributed to Jesus Christ, God the Son.

Also, I would point out that justification is a legal concept. Justification is the legal act of God declaring a complete right legal standing before the law of God and a freedom from the law’s penalty. It is the declaration by God of the complete forgiveness, the total remission, of the sins of the repentant believer. There really is no other justification than "legal" justification.

But, as always, I await what you have to say.