Distinction Between Regeneration and Justification

[prism]

Is there a distinction between the two?
J.C. Ryle says this in his book on the new birth. (He, rightly so, makes no distinction between regeneration and the new birth).

It ought always to be remembered that there are two distinct things which the Lord Jesus Christ does for every sinner whom He undertakes to save. He washes him from his sins in His own blood, and gives him a free pardon—this is his justification. He puts the Holy Spirit into his heart, and makes him an entire new man—this is his Regeneration.

Ryle, J.C.. The New Birth . Kindle Edition.

Maybe it's Ryle's definition of justification that is confusing me? I have always thought it to be a declaration of pardon, based on the imputed merits of Christ.

 

[Carbon]

Is there a distinction between the two?
J.C. Ryle says this in his book on the new birth. (He, rightly so, makes no distinction between regeneration and the new birth).

It ought always to be remembered that there are two distinct things which the Lord Jesus Christ does for every sinner whom He undertakes to save. He washes him from his sins in His own blood, and gives him a free pardon—this is his justification. He puts the Holy Spirit into his heart, and makes him an entire new man—this is his Regeneration.

Ryle, J.C.. The New Birth . Kindle Edition.

Maybe it's Ryle's definition of justification that is confusing me? I have always thought it to be a declaration of pardon, based on the imputed merits of Christ.

One is justified by faith/belief alone.

But before anyone can possess this faith, he must be regenerated.

 

[Carbon]

Is there a distinction between the two?
J.C. Ryle says this in his book on the new birth. (He, rightly so, makes no distinction between regeneration and the new birth).

In my understanding, regeneration is the new birth.

John 3:3 = Regeneration
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

 

[Arial]

Is there a distinction between the two?
J.C. Ryle says this in his book on the new birth. (He, rightly so, makes no distinction between regeneration and the new birth).

It ought always to be remembered that there are two distinct things which the Lord Jesus Christ does for every sinner whom He undertakes to save. He washes him from his sins in His own blood, and gives him a free pardon—this is his justification. He puts the Holy Spirit into his heart, and makes him an entire new man—this is his Regeneration.

Ryle, J.C.. The New Birth . Kindle Edition.

Maybe it's Ryle's definition of justification that is confusing me? I have always thought it to be a declaration of pardon, based on the imputed merits of Christ.

Justification is a legal declaration that comes with being placed in Christ via regeneration. We are declared by the Just Judge as justified before Him. In other words, reconciled to Him through the substitution of Christ on the cross. The regeneration that occurs is God giving us a heart disposed towards Him rather than at enmity with Him, so that when we hear the gospel we are able to believe it (it is no longer foolishness to us) and do believe it.

 

[prism]

One is justified by faith/belief alone.

But before anyone can possess this faith, he must be regenerated.

Justification is a legal declaration that comes with being placed in Christ via regeneration. We are declared by the Just Judge as justified before Him. In other words, reconciled to Him through the substitution of Christ on the cross. The regeneration that occurs is God giving us a heart disposed towards Him rather than at enmity with Him, so that when we hear the gospel we are able to believe it (it is no longer foolishness to us) and do believe it.

So could either of you place the order of regeneration, according to your understanding?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Is there a distinction between the two?
J.C. Ryle says this in his book on the new birth. (He, rightly so, makes no distinction between regeneration and the new birth).

It ought always to be remembered that there are two distinct things which the Lord Jesus Christ does for every sinner whom He undertakes to save. He washes him from his sins in His own blood, and gives him a free pardon—this is his justification. He puts the Holy Spirit into his heart, and makes him an entire new man—this is his Regeneration.

Ryle, J.C.. The New Birth . Kindle Edition.

Maybe it's Ryle's definition of justification that is confusing me? I have always thought it to be a declaration of pardon, based on the imputed merits of Christ.

The whole thing is nothing but "Religious Word Games". "Regeneration" seems to be the Calvinist "Buzz Word" as a work around for their "Total depravity" doctrine. For the rest of us it just means "Salvation" / Being Born Again.

 

[Carbon]

So could either of you place the order of regeneration, according to your understanding?

Sure.

29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. Romans 8.

foreknown, Predestined, called, regenerated, (here, between regeneration and justified is conversion) justified/sanctification, glorification.

 

[prism]

For the rest of us it just means "Salvation" / Being Born Again.

For many, the words, "salvation / being born again" are also 'religious word games'. Should we capitulate and say nothing?

 

[prism]

Justification is a legal declaration that comes with being placed in Christ via regeneration. We are declared by the Just Judge as justified before Him. In other words, reconciled to Him through the substitution of Christ on the cross. The regeneration that occurs is God giving us a heart disposed towards Him rather than at enmity with Him, so that when we hear the gospel we are able to believe it (it is no longer foolishness to us) and do believe it.

Ryle also states...

"The two things are never separate. They are never found apart. Every justified man is also a Regenerate man, and every Regenerate man is also a justified man."

Ryle, J.C.. The New Birth .

Would you say there was some elapsed time, between regeneration (new birth) and justification?

 

[Arial]

Ryle also states...

"The two things are never separate. They are never found apart. Every justified man is also a Regenerate man, and every Regenerate man is also a justified man."

Ryle, J.C.. The New Birth .

Would you say there was some elapsed time, between regeneration (new birth) and justification?

I think regeneration and justification are distinct but not separate.

 

[Arial]

So could either of you place the order of regeneration, according to your understanding?

Regeneration does not have an order. It is something that is done by God within a person. It is necessary before one can or will believe the gospel. It results in the person both seeing and entering the kingdom of God. To try and identify its workings as to succession or process is like trying to determine where the wind comes from and where it goes. We only see the results of that wind---where it has been and what it did.

 

[Arial]

The whole thing is nothing but "Religious Word Games". "Regeneration" seems to be the Calvinist "Buzz Word" as a work around for their "Total depravity" doctrine. For the rest of us it just means "Salvation" / Being Born Again.

Actually it is a biblical word and very important one at that.

Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of dees which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit.
John 3
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing;
1 Peter 1:23-25 for you ave been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
Eph 2:4-5 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)
1 Peter 1:3 Blessed e the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the the dead.
John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[Hobie]

Is there a distinction between the two?
J.C. Ryle says this in his book on the new birth. (He, rightly so, makes no distinction between regeneration and the new birth).

It ought always to be remembered that there are two distinct things which the Lord Jesus Christ does for every sinner whom He undertakes to save. He washes him from his sins in His own blood, and gives him a free pardon—this is his justification. He puts the Holy Spirit into his heart, and makes him an entire new man—this is his Regeneration.

Ryle, J.C.. The New Birth . Kindle Edition.

Maybe it's Ryle's definition of justification that is confusing me? I have always thought it to be a declaration of pardon, based on the imputed merits of Christ.

No, that is sanctification, thus the confusion. We are transformed and put on Christs robe of righteousness, and come before God, without sin.

 

[prism]

Regeneration does not have an order.

So could it happen subsequent to justification, since it doesn't have an order?

 

[prism]

No, that is sanctification, thus the confusion. We are transformed and put on Christs robe of righteousness, and come before God, without sin.

What is sanctification? What Ryle said or what I said at the end?

 

[Arial]

So could it happen subsequent to justification, since it doesn't have an order?

It never happens subsequent to justification. We are justified when we are placed in Christ through faith. And subsequent would give it an order. Regeneration and justification happen together but they are distinct actions. One does something, and the other is a result of the something that was done. They can be distinguished but not separated.

 

[Carbon]

So could either of you place the order of regeneration, according to your understanding?

I think you meant to say, ordo salutis?
Order of salvation

 

[Carbon]

It never happens subsequent to justification. We are justified when we are placed in Christ through faith.

Maybe I am misunderstanding it but…
We are not placed in Christ through faith but placed in Christ because he has fulfilled the covenant. Therefore we are placed in Christ, because we are his (federal headship) while we were yet dead. Then from being in Christ (regenerated) we receive the gift of faith, and once we confess this belief we are declared just (justification)

 

[prism]

It never happens subsequent to justification. We are justified when we are placed in Christ through faith. And subsequent would give it an order. Regeneration and justification happen together but they are distinct actions. One does something, and the other is a result of the something that was done. They can be distinguished but not separated.

I guess I'm reading it in such a way that if regeneration doesn't have an order, it can happen at any time...before or after justification. I would believe also it happens prior to justification or at least simultaneously.

 

[prism]

I think you meant to say, ordo salutis?
Order of salvation

Yes. but I didn't want to give the impression that I have a grasp on Latin, when I don't. lol (at least I didn't say 'odor of salvation.) English is tough enough let alone Latin.