Did Jesus teach TULIP?

[donadams]

No.

Matthew 7
11So if you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!

Luke 6
32If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.

No.

John 12
32And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw everyone to Myself.”

Acts 1
8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

No.

John 3
16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

No.

Matthew 19
28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for the sake of My name will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life.
Acts 1
25to take up this ministry and apostleship, which Judas abandoned to go to his rightful place.”


See above. Judas was among those 12 promised eternal life and then later abandoned and betrayed Jesus. He went to his "rightful place." I am pretty sure that wasn't heaven.

What about the monergism doctrine?

 

[donadams]

None of the scriptures you give to refute any point of TULIP, do so. They are just isolated scriptures pulled out of ALL context, and frankly, in most of them I do not even see any connection to the doctrine being refuted. And show we where Judas was promised eternal life.

Jn 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

 

[donadams]

I must be reading you wrong because it seems you're saying God found favor with Mary because of prevenient grace?

Lk 1:30 Mary found favor with God
Lk 1:49 prevenient grace or preserved from sin

 

[donadams]

The church founded by Christ does not teach prevenient grace.

Ineffabilis Deus
The Immaculate Conception
Pope Pius IX - 1854

“We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.”

 

[donadams]

Well, explain how they debunk TULIP. Don't just say they do.

And where does it say Judas was promised eternal life? If you think about it for a second, if Jesus promised Judas eternal life and then didn't give it to him, Jesus lied.

Irresistible Grace–

Dogma 122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.

 

[donadams]

Well, explain how they debunk TULIP. Don't just say they do.

And where does it say Judas was promised eternal life? If you think about it for a second, if Jesus promised Judas eternal life and then didn't give it to him, Jesus lied.

Well, explain how they debunk TULIP. Don't just say they do.

And where does it say Judas was promised eternal life? If you think about it for a second, if Jesus promised Judas eternal life and then didn't give it to him, Jesus lied.

Perseverance of the saints

Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13 must endure to the end

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

The big “IF”

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

 

[Josheb]

Total depravity? How did Mary find favor with God?

Thks

By God's grace. Mary was not saved until she believed in her Son (and according to you, received regenerative baptism). Sinner's find favor with God often, but that does not mean they have been saved from sin and wrath. You may think you're benig clever, but all you've done as make another attempt to hijack someone else's op, impose RCCism, and make the thread about RCCism rather than the op-specified topic.

It's a real problem on your end, don.

A Catholic should be able to discuss any topic using scripture without immediately changing the subject and without using extra-biblical points of view. Total Depravity has NOTHING to do with whether a person finds favor outside of salvation.

 

[Arial]

Perseverance of the saints

Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13 must endure to the end

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

The big “IF”

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

Perseverance of the saints teaches that those who believe will persevere to the end, because of the TULI.

They are given to Christ. (John 6)

They are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3)

They are purchased with His blood. (Gal 3:13-14)

Their sins are nailed to the cross. (Col 2:13-15)

They are sealed in Him. (Eph. 1:13-14)

Cannot be taken out of His hands. (John 10:28-29)

 

[Josheb]

Judas didn't follow Him. Judas betrayed Him. Jesus chose him or THAT purpose. (John 6) And another took his place.

That's rich. Have you read Matthew 10 before? It says Judas is an apostle. He was a follower of Jesus and and even given power to cast out demons, raise the dead, and perform healings. He lost his eternal life, too. One can't betray God's Son and go heaven.

Matthew 10
2These are the names of the twelve apostles: first Simon, called Peter, and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Jesus.

5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go onto the road of the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near.’ 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

Wait. Lemme make sure I understand that. @Arial says Judas did not follow Jesus but betrayed him and you disagree by posting a passage from scripture that never states Judas followed Jesus but explicitly states Judas betrayed Jesus.

Is that your argument?

Not all who are called followers follow. Lots of so called "followers" of person X or person Y do not have a clue what person X or Y teach. Are there no Biden or Trump followers who don't have a clue what policies those two intend?

 

[CrowCross]

Ineffabilis Deus
The Immaculate Conception
Pope Pius IX - 1854

“We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.”

Where is the Immaculate Conception found in the bible?

 

[Arial]

Irresistible Grace–

Dogma 122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.

That does not refute the teaching of irresistible grace. It just presents a different teaching. The doctrine of irresistible grace is based on the TUL which then means that if the TUL exist, God's grace does exactly what He intends it to do. If men are so totally affected by sin according to the doctrine, then for any to be saved, God must elect some to save, or else save them all----which history and Scripture show He does not save all----and this election must not be on the basis of any merit in the person or it would no longer be grace, and if that is true, then the atonement is limited in scope but not power, (Jesus died for those God elected) therefore, grace must overcome the T and bring to salvation the U and the L.

 

[Arial]

Jn 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

You answered your own question with verse 68. If they went away they did not believe---Jesus even says that. Peter answered correctly showing He believed.

 

[Josheb]

Ineffabilis Deus
The Immaculate Conception
Pope Pius IX - 1854

“We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.”

Where is the Immaculate Conception found in the bible?

Yes, @donadams, where does the Bible state Mary was "preserved free from all stain of original sin"?

 

[Josheb]

Irresistible Grace–

Dogma 122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.

That has nothing to do with the doctrine of Irresistible Grace (IG). IG does not teach God's grace cannot be resisted; it teaches God's grace accomplishes what God intends. That is why it is sometimes called "Effectual Grace." Dogma 122 has nothing to do with the "I" in TULIP. When you make it to do so then you are arguing a strawman and neither God nor the Catholic Church wants God's people to use strawmen.

 

[Josheb]

Did Jesus teach these 5 points?



The following are the five points of Calvinism listed, explained, and supported with scripture.

1. Total Depravity– Man is completely touched/affected by sin in all that he is (in nature he is completely fallen), but is not as bad as he could be (in action, i.e., not all murder, etc.). Furthermore, this total depravity means that the unregenerate will not, of their own free will, choose to receive Christ.
   1. It is the unbeliever who is deceitful and wicked (Jer. 17:9), full of evil (Mark 7:21-23), loves darkness rather than light and does evil (John 3:19), does not seek for God nor does any good (Rom. 3:10-12), is ungodly (Rom. 5:6), dead in his sins (Eph. 2:1), by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3), cannot accept or understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14), and a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).
2. Unconditional Election– God elects a person based upon nothing in that person because there is nothing in him that would make him worthy of being chosen; rather, God’s election is based on what is in God. God chose us because he decided to bestow his love and grace upon us, not because we are worthy, in and of ourselves, of being saved.
   1. Election is the sovereign act of God where, from before the foundation of the world, he chose those whom he would save (Eph. 1:4). This election to salvation is not conditioned upon any foreseen faith (Rom. 9:16) or good works of any individual (Rom. 9:11; 2 Tim. 1:9). The election is based completely on God’s sovereign choice according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:11). God chose the elect because he decided to bestow his love upon them (John 3:16; Eph. 2:4) based solely on his sovereign grace (Gal. 1:15) and for his glory (Isaiah 43:7).
3. Limited Atonement– Christ bore the sin only of the elect, not everyone who ever lived.
   1. Christ’s blood was sufficient for all, but not all sin was imputed to Christ. Christ’s blood is sufficient to cover all people. But the sufficiency relates to his divine value which is different than our legal debt. Sin is a debt (Matt. 6:12 with Luke 11:4) since it is breaking the Law of God (1 John 3:4). In limited atonement, Calvinists are saying that there was a limit to whose sins were imputed to Christ in a legal sense. They are not denying the sufficiency of Christ’s blood to cover all people. Instead, they look at the legal aspect of the sin debt. Peoples’ sin debts were transferred to Jesus (1 Pet. 2:24) and were canceled on the cross, not when we believe (Col. 2:14). Therefore, legally speaking, those canceled sins cannot be held against the sinner because their quality of being a debt has been canceled by being paid on the cross (John 19:30; Col. 2:14). If the debt is canceled, it does not exist and cannot be held against the debtor/sinner. Therefore, Christ only legally bore the sins of the elect even though his blood was sufficient to cover all. Also, consider 1 Sam. 3:14 which says, “Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.”
4. Irresistible Grace– The term, unfortunately, suggests a mechanical and coercive force upon an unwilling subject. This is not the case. Instead, it is the act of God making the person willing to receive him. It does not mean that a person cannot resist God’s will. It means that when God moves to save/regenerate a person, the sinner cannot thwart God’s movement and he will be regenerated
   1. God moves the heart of the person where he wishes it to go (Proverbs 21:1). The choice and mercy of God depend on God’s desire, not man’s ability (Romans 9:18).
5. Perseverance of the Saints – That we are so secure in Christ, that we cannot fall away.
   1. Jesus will not lose any who had been given to him by the Father (John 6:38-39); he gives eternal life to them so they will never perish (John 3:16; 10:27-28), and those who leave the faith were never believers to begin with (1 John 2:19)

Wow. This op took off quickly.

Yes, Jesus did teach what we now call TULIP. I'd use some different texts and word things slightly differently (less human-centric and more theocentric) but the op is spot on. Combining Mark 10:18 and/or Rom. 3:10-12 (which the op does cite) with Jn. 6:44 readily proves the doctrine asserting sinfully enslaved and dead humans are incapable of coming to God for salvation in their own might. Piles of other scripture reinforce the point: no one is good, and no one is righteous or seeks God and no one can (or does) come to Jesus unless the Father hauls that person to Jesus like a fish in a net gets hauled out of water.

 

[Arial]

Where is the Immaculate Conception found in the bible?

Don't feed the troll.

 

[Josheb]

Don't feed the troll.

Yep. Already regretting posts 54 and 55.

 

[Arial]

But do you believe it as the church founded by Christ believes and teaches

Stick to the OP topic. We all know by now that when you say the church founded by Christ, you mean the RCC.

 

[Arial]

Ineffabilis Deus
The Immaculate Conception
Pope Pius IX - 1854

“We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.”

The OP is about whether Jesus taught TULIP or not. It is not about Mary.

 

[Arial]

Yep. Already regretting posts 54 and 55.

#54 and #55 are fine. I think you meant 53 and 54 and only #53 tossed a crumb to the troll.