Did Christ actually suffer eternal torment on our behalf?

[Bornfield]

Mt 10:28, Mt 25:46, Mk 9:43

i do not mind looking up these important passages

but as a Trinitarian - - please explain how these three passages are connected or pertaining

how are these three passages pertaining to my post

i knew you as a Trinitarian would post these three passages based upon an an inference - but inferences are not full context

and knowing the Trinitarian mind - the most likely outcome will prove that the Trinitarian has absolutely no manuscripts for the faith system they pretend are measured for - in inferencing - Mt 10:28, Mt 25:46, Mk 9:43

and have no translation for posting numerical values to scriptures reffering to verses that do not address the ORIGINAL BIRTHING QUESTION - I personally, originally had asked

 

[ReverendRV]

Mt 10:28, Mt 25:46, Mk 9:43

i do not mind looking up these important passages

but as a Trinitarian - - please explain how these three passages are connected or pertaining

how are these three passages pertaining to my post

i knew you as a Trinitarian would post these three passages based upon an an inference - but inferences are not full context

and knowing the Trinitarian mind - the most likely outcome will prove that the Trinitarian has absolutely no manuscripts for the faith system they pretend are measured for - in inferencing - Mt 10:28, Mt 25:46, Mk 9:43

and have no translation for posting numerical values to scriptures reffering to verses that do not address the ORIGINAL BIRTHING QUESTION - I personally, originally had asked

This is why Systematic Theology is so important, anyone can make the Bible say anything they want it to say. Without Systematic Theology, Trinitarians can even make the Bible say God is the Three-in-One; right? I'm sure you agree; even Muslims use Bible Verses to their advantage, right? So, are Trinitarians using Verses to their advantage?

If you want to, we can go through the Bible Systematically and find out who is right? The following Gospel Tract is an example of getting to the Truth Systematically...

 

[ReverendRV]

This is why Systematic Theology is so important, anyone can make the Bible say anything they want it to say. Without Systematic Theology, Trinitarians can even make the Bible say God is the Three-in-One; right? I'm sure you agree; even Muslims use Bible Verses to their advantage, right? So, are Trinitarians using Verses to their advantage?

If you want to, we can go through the Bible Systematically and find out who is right? The following Gospel Tract is an example of getting to the Truth Systematically...

Samson’s pillars ~ by ReverendRV * September 9

Judges 16:29 KJV; And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.

Most people know the story of Samson; the world’s strongest man. He wasn’t a very good man, but as a Judge he defended his people Israel. One day, his enemies used a woman to bring him down; many a man’s weakness. The Philistines blinded his eyes and kept him around; to bring him out from time to time, and mock him. During a great party they displayed him in their midst, but he had reconciled with God, and sacrificed himself by pulling the house down; killing more than he ever had. ~ When someone has a bad Doctrine, I use Samson and the Pillars as a way to show them they’re wrong. I get someone who disagrees with me to take turns giving Verses we use to make our points, and I even let them go first. I have to agree with their Verse and put one hand on it, while keeping my other hand on the Verses for my side; like holding to both sides of the argument. The first one to take their hand off the other persons pillar is the Loser. The person I'm debating with always takes their hand of my column before I take my hand off their column. The other person can't see how both columns can be true at the same time! ~ Keeping our hands on all columns results in a Systematic Theology; believing All Scripture… @Arial

Samson was a Scoundrel; are you better than him? ~ Samson Lied to Delilah all the time; what do you think she called him for Lying to her? Have you ever told a Lie?? Hmm; I think she would call you a Liar too. Have you ever had an Affair? This is called Adultery; but you deny it. Jesus said that whoever looks upon a woman to Lust for her has committed Adultery with her in his Heart! Saint James said “Each one is tempted when his own evil desires lure him away and he’s enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to Sin; and when Sin is full-grown, it gives birth to death.” In case you didn’t notice, this is a picture of Adultery in the Heart. ~ These were only two of God’s Ten Commandments, if he judged you by his standard would you be innocent or guilty? When you die, would you go to Heaven or to Hell?

Hell is a place of eternal torment and your hand is on its pillar; what you need to do is put your other hand on the pillar of Heaven; a place of eternal Glory! ~ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him shall not perish but have everlasting Life! Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God that takes away the Sin of the world. He gave up his life like Samson did, and Saved all who put their trust in him. He shed his blood and died on the Cross, was buried three days but rose from the grave; the Hope of eternal Life. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith in the Resurrected Savior Jesus Christ, without Works lest we boast; this is when you can take your hand off Hell’s pillar! Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God and join a Bible believing Church. ~ Do you believe the whole Bible but think others don’t? Ask yourself; “Is his Verse good or bad for my Doctrine?” When his Verse is Fundamentally true but bad for your doctrine, maybe you’re the one who doesn’t believe all the Bible? @Bornfield

2nd Timothy 3:16 KJV-a; All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,

 

[Eleanor]

Mt 10:28, Mt 25:46, Mk 9:43

i do not mind looking up these important passages

but as a Trinitarian - - please explain how these three passages are connected or pertaining

how are these three passages pertaining to my post

It is a place where the soul (Greek: ψυχή, psyche) and body could be destroyed (Mt 10:28) in "unquenchable fire" (Mk 9:43).

Jesus calls it eternal punishment in contrast to eternal life (Mt 25:46).

i knew you as a Trinitarian would post these three passages based upon an an inference - but inferences are not full context

and knowing the Trinitarian mind - the most likely outcome will prove that the Trinitarian has absolutely no manuscripts for the faith system they pretend are measured for - in inferencing - Mt 10:28, Mt 25:46, Mk 9:43

and have no translation for posting numerical values to scriptures reffering to verses that do not address the ORIGINAL BIRTHING QUESTION - I personally, originally had asked

 

[Eleanor]

Gehenna is a place where the soul (Greek: ψυχή, psyche) and body could be destroyed (Mt 10:28) in "unquenchable fire" (Mk 9:43).

Jesus calls Gehenna is eternal punishment in contrast to eternal life(Mt 25:46).

Mt 10:28, Mt 25:46, Mk 9:43
i do not mind looking up these important passages
but as a Trinitarian - - please explain how these three passages are connected or pertaining
how are these three passages pertaining to my post

They go to your statement that Gehenna in the NT is about burial,
whereas Jesus shows he is using it as a figure of eternal punishment after death.

i knew you as a Trinitarian would post these three passages based upon an an inference - but inferences are not full context
and knowing the Trinitarian mind - the most likely outcome will prove that the Trinitarian has absolutely no manuscripts for the faith system they pretend are measured for - in inferencing - Mt 10:28, Mt 25:46, Mk 9:43
and have no translation for posting numerical values to scriptures reffering to verses that do not address the ORIGINAL BIRTHING QUESTION - I personally, originally had asked

1) Where do I find the ORIGINAL BIRTHING QUESTION you originally had asked?
Or could you just repeat it for me.

2) As I understand it, your post is about Hell, ︸ The Grave, ︸ Death ︸ Eternity as they relate to Gehenna.
As I understand it, you suggest that Gehenna symbolically refers to death and burial only.
I presented NT testimony (Mt 10:28, Mt 25:46, Mk 9:43) that Gehenna refers to time after burial where the soul is in a place of punishment.

 

[Keiw1]

It is a place where the soul (Greek: ψυχή, psyche) and body could be destroyed (Mt 10:28) in "unquenchable fire" (Mk 9:43).

Jesus calls it eternal punishment in contrast to eternal life (Mt 25:46).


Is it about "disgrace and shame" in Gehenna, or about "unquenchable fire" (Mk 9:45) in Gehenna?

How does the "Trinitarian program system" differ from the teaching of Christ in Mt 10:28, Mt 25:46, Mk 9:43, which is the divine truth of the matter?

Jesus suffered for those who follow everything he commanded=FEW. John 15:13-14-- John 15:10--Matt 28:19-20--Few on earth even know what Jesus actually teaches. That is sad, But one fact is that Jesus' real teachers on this earth teach all he commanded. Most get paid to teach dogmas and very little of what Jesus teaches. Those assure their flocks-you are saved, give me a tithe.

 

[Eleanor]

Jesus suffered for those who follow everything he commanded=FEW. John 15:13-14-- John 15:10--Matt 28:19-20--Few on earth even know what Jesus actually teaches.

Jesus suffered for those who believe in and trust on his atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) and person for the remission of their sin and reconciliation with God (Jn 3:18).

That is sad, But one fact is that Jesus' real teachers on this earth teach all he commanded. Most get paid to teach dogmas and very little of what Jesus teaches. Those assure their flocks-you are saved, give me a tithe.

Which includes Mt 22:37-40 that all the commandments are summed up in one rule (Ro 13:9): love of God and neighbor as self, as well as NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16).

 

[Keiw1]

Jesus suffered for those who believe in and trust on his atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) and person for the remission of their sin and reconciliation with God (Jn 3:18).

Which includes Mt 22:37-40 that all the commandments are summed up in one rule (Ro 13:9): love of God and neighbor as self, as well as NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16).

Actually all summed up in--Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from God=OT-NT-studying never stops. The real teachers who have Jesus teach-EVERY utterance from God to the flock without fail. Proof of ones love is by obeying.
These believe as you say-Matt 7:22-23--but those words to them from Jesus is final judgement.

 

[Eleanor]

Actually all summed up in--Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from God

I don't think Jesus can be improved upon in Mt 22:37-40.

 

[Keiw1]

I don't think Jesus can be improved upon in Mt 22:37-40.

John 15:10-Jesus assures all that the only ones he is friends with do what he commanded)--that is learning and living by EVERY utterance from God.
John 15:13,14-If you observe( all)of my commandments you remain in my love, just as i have observed the commandments of the Father and remain in his love.
There are hundreds of teachings from Jesus-no pick and choose-all of his commandments count. There are 1540( give or take) pages of Gods utterances.

 

[Eleanor]

John 15:10-Jesus assures all that the only ones he is friends with do what he commanded)--that is learning and living by EVERY utterance from God.
John 15:13,14-If you observe( all)of my commandments you remain in my love, just as i have observed the commandments of the Father and remain in his love.
There are hundreds of teachings from Jesus-no pick and choose-all of his commandments count. There are 1540( give or take) pages of Gods utterances.

Including Mt 22:37-40.

 

[makesends]

Including Mt 22:37-40.

You have way more patience than I do.

 

[Eleanor]

You have way more patience than I do.

Not really. . .

 

[Mr GLee]

I reconcile Christ's receiving the temporary Wrath of God on the Cross, with our Eternal Punishment as being equitable exchanges; by realizing that when an Eternal Being is Punished, the Eternal quotient is satisfied in a moment...

The first part of that promised three days and nights demonstration began in the garden of Gethsemane. I would think is a better example than the hill or cross the bloody demonstration.

The sufferings of Christ was prophesied beforehand in Genesis 3;15 as well as isaiah 53. . the work of two, three is a crowd .

Saying a eternal beginning is being punished. Does that mean the Father as a eternal being suffered and the Son of man Jesus suffered with him ?

The Son of man Jesus is not eternal he was given eternal life from the father

God is not a man .

 

[ReverendRV]

The first part of that promised three days and nights demonstration began in the garden of Gethsemane. I would think is a better example than the hill or cross the bloody demonstration.

The sufferings of Christ was prophesied beforehand in Genesis 3;15 as well as isaiah 53. . the work of two, three is a crowd .

Saying a eternal beginning is being punished. Does that mean the Father as a eternal being suffered and the Son of man Jesus suffered with him ?

The Son of man Jesus is not eternal he was given eternal life from the father

God is not a man .

The Cross is a better Hell for Jesus, because the world went dark...

If Jesus were not eternal, shouldn't he still be suffering the Wrath of God? I would like an answer which shows equity regarding eternal Wrath...

 

[Keiw1]

Including Mt 22:37-40.

Yes and proof of ones love is by( actions) obeying Every utterance from God. By Obeying that teaching from Jesus. Obeying is key to it all. 1540 pages of utterances--not put there for nothing but for one to study them, learn them, and apply them. Do you think its to much to ask of one when eternal life is the prize? The value of eternal life has more value than a gazillion x all the wealth combined on earth.
The broad and spacious path is the easy way, the narrow gate is the hard way, Jesus said-FEW will find that road. I believe its because FEW listen to Jesus and obey.

 

[Mr GLee]

The Cross is a better Hell for Jesus, because the world went dark...

If Jesus were not eternal, shouldn't he still be suffering the Wrath of God? I would like an answer which shows equity regarding eternal Wrath...

Hi thanks for the reply.

I would offer. The cross the 2nd demonstration (bloody )of 3 was a ceremonial sign to the unbelieving word in a hope of drawing them to the book of prophecy so they could find the gospel answers .Why, how ?

To the world it would appear the Son of man, Jesus was crucified by a Satan inspired mob .

The first part of the three days and night would be for those who trust the Book of prophecy fulfilling two of the witness beginning in the garden of Gethsemane. Both prophesied beforehand in Genesis 3:15 with Isaiah 53. In that way two is the witness God not seen has spoken.

The witness of two. 1# the unseen Holy Father working in 2# the Son of man, Jesus.

The Father striking the Son of man, Jesus. bruising his heel crushing the head of the serpent "the gospel news"

Jesus suffered the pangs of hell by his own self. Three time he cried out for strength from the other apostles. Three time the Father put them back to sleep to fulfill the prophecy of two.( Genesis 3:15 with Isaiah 53)

The first portion of three part demonstration . . . the garden possibly a reflection of the garden of Eden when the flaming swords' became the water of the word . . The garden demonstration seems to be almost ignored.

Mathew 26 :36-46 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy. And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.

Then the bloody 2nd demonstration to the unbelieving world up the hill of the Skull .After that the demonstration of the Tomb. the demonstration of faith.The not seen witness of God The Father removes the grave clothes and rolls back the stone . finishing the work of two empowered by one.

 

[Eleanor]

Yes and proof of ones love is by( actions) obeying Every utterance from God. By Obeying that teaching from Jesus. Obeying is key to it all. 1540 pages of utterances--not put there for nothing but for one to study them, learn them, and apply them. Do you think its to much to ask of one when eternal life is the prize? The value of eternal life has more value than a gazillion x all the wealth combined on earth.
The broad and spacious path is the easy way, the narrow gate is the hard way, Jesus said-FEW will find that road. I believe its because FEW listen to Jesus and obey.

Actually, proof of obeying is loving (Ro 13:8).

 

[Keiw1]

Actually, proof of obeying is loving (Ro 13:8).

And that love would absolutely refuse to stand on both sides of a war of hatred( The rev war, civil war, ww1, ww2) killing their own brothers in Christ who would be mislead to stand on both sides by throwing Jesus away to accomplish it. While the blind guides pray to the same God on both sides= pure hypocrisy, and tell each side that God is on their side. But the mislead believed it was ok.

 

[Eleanor]

And that love would absolutely refuse to stand on both sides of a war of hatred( The rev war, civil war, ww1, ww2) killing their own brothers in Christ who would be mislead to stand on both sides by throwing Jesus away to accomplish it. While the blind guides pray to the same God on both sides= pure hypocrisy, and tell each side that God is on their side. But the mislead believed it was ok.

One man's hatred is another man's fight for political freedom.