Dealing with Toxic People

[grace2]

Jesus never sought out toxic people and begged them to believe in Him.

Who are toxic people in your opinion?

 

[STAND]

Tares are simply unbelievers and what Jesus says about it is to leave them lest in tearing them up you also pull up the wheat. That He will deal with it at harvest. Matt 13:24-30

Wrong, Jesus plainly declares they are children of the devil. Matt. 13:38

Jesus does not tell us to leave them alone, He is clearly speaking to the angels who offered to take them out of the world. He says to wait until the time of the Harvest to do so. What the Bible does say is for us to remove evil/toxic people from our midst.

Trying to have a reasonable discussion is not thread bashing.

There's nothing reasonable about deaf-earing the info that is delivered to you upon your request and continuing to carry on as if it was never produced. That is quite literally unreasonable and argumentative.

I do have evidence of it. I am an eyewitness.

I don't think you'd be satisfied with that evidence from any of us and it's not very convincing that you've witnessed a wreaking of havoc on marriages, relationships and businesses due to people using the Bible as some kind of scrying/Ouija Board of sorts for advice on their lives. Surely if that's as prevalent as you imply, there would be articles and records of such events.

 

[Arial]

Wrong, Jesus plainly declares they are children of the devil. Matt. 13:38

Jesus does not tell us to leave them alone, He is clearly speaking to the angels who offered to take them out of the world. He says to wait until the time of the Harvest to do so. What the Bible does say is for us to remove evil/toxic people from our midst.

Children of the devil are unbelievers. You have assigned to them personality traits and behaviors as their identity. We do not know who they are---only God does. Jesus is giving a series of analogies (parables) of what the kingdom of heaven is made up of. In every case presented, concerning seed as representative of those who believe being the good seed, and those who do not being the bad seed, He is the sower of the good seed and the devil is the sower of the bad seed.

If we left unbelievers alone, who then would hear the gospel? It is through the preaching of the gospel that people hear and believe. If the angels are to not destroy unbelievers until the harvest---are we to do so? You are applying those scriptures wrongly. First you must determine what they mean according to Jesus who spoke them, and then find the application. And you have to make sure the meaning is consistent with all else the Bible teaches on the same subject.

What I have been trying to do---and attempted to again with the scriptures I quoted in another post and that were ignored,---and others from the very beginning have attempted to do, is to investigate what was presented as cut and dried, as not so simple, not so cut and dried. Other things enter into the situation you presented. Mainly, ourselves and the need in all situations we find unpleasant, to first in prayer before God and with His word, examine ourselves. To not automatically label and discard people, as though we stand as judge and jury. I am not sure why you dismiss this, even resent it and take it as a personal assault. We do not know what God is doing through us in another person's life.

There's nothing reasonable about deaf-earing the info that is delivered to you upon your request and continuing to carry on as if it was never produced. That is quite literally unreasonable and argumentative.

I have not done that. I am simply saying it is not as cut and dried as you present. And your definition of unreasonable and argumentative presumes disagreement with you, and a desire to explore other aspects, is toxice iyo. That attitude itself is unreasonable and argumentative, and you quite quickly moved your own thread into the category of classic "toxic" behavior instead of dealing with the issue.

I don't think you'd be satisfied with that evidence from any of us and it's not very convincing that you've witnessed a wreaking of havoc on marriages, relationships and businesses due to people using the Bible as some kind of scrying/Ouija Board of sorts for advice on their lives. Surely if that's as prevalent as you imply, there would be articles and records of such events.

I did not imply that it was prevalent. But I have heard it in testimonies, in Bible studies, and there are many books, articles, records of such things happening. Am I going to look them up for you? No. Am I going to waste a minute of my time concerned that you imply that I am a liar? No. However, that was not an isolated statement I made, but a part of a larger context----which is being ignored. And a question I asked you directly and you did not bother to answer. That being, if we are to follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit in the matter of whether we walk away from someone or not (which I also said I agree with) how do we know what is the guidance of the Holy Spirit? Is it our feelings? Is it a strong feeling that brings us inner peace? Is it whatever thought comes into our head on the matter?

 

[STAND]

Children of the devil are unbelievers. You have assigned to them personality traits and behaviors as their identity. We do not know who they are---only God does. Jesus is giving a series of analogies (parables) of what the kingdom of heaven is made up of. In every case presented, concerning seed as representative of those who believe being the good seed, and those who do not being the bad seed, He is the sower of the good seed and the devil is the sower of the bad seed.

If we left unbelievers alone, who then would hear the gospel? It is through the preaching of the gospel that people hear and believe. If the angels are to not destroy unbelievers until the harvest---are we to do so? You are applying those scriptures wrongly. First you must determine what they mean according to Jesus who spoke them, and then find the application. And you have to make sure the meaning is consistent with all else the Bible teaches on the same subject.

What I have been trying to do---and attempted to again with the scriptures I quoted in another post and that were ignored,---and others from the very beginning have attempted to do, is to investigate what was presented as cut and dried, as not so simple, not so cut and dried. Other things enter into the situation you presented. Mainly, ourselves and the need in all situations we find unpleasant, to first in prayer before God and with His word, examine ourselves. To not automatically label and discard people, as though we stand as judge and jury. I am not sure why you dismiss this, even resent it and take it as a personal assault. We do not know what God is doing through us in another person's life.

I have not done that. I am simply saying it is not as cut and dried as you present. And your definition of unreasonable and argumentative presumes disagreement with you, and a desire to explore other aspects, is toxice iyo. That attitude itself is unreasonable and argumentative, and you quite quickly moved your own thread into the category of classic "toxic" behavior instead of dealing with the issue.

I did not imply that it was prevalent. But I have heard it in testimonies, in Bible studies, and there are many books, articles, records of such things happening. Am I going to look them up for you? No. Am I going to waste a minute of my time concerned that you imply that I am a liar? No. However, that was not an isolated statement I made, but a part of a larger context----which is being ignored. And a question I asked you directly and you did not bother to answer. That being, if we are to follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit in the matter of whether we walk away from someone or not (which I also said I agree with) how do we know what is the guidance of the Holy Spirit? Is it our feelings? Is it a strong feeling that brings us inner peace? Is it whatever thought comes into our head on the matter?

This is just silliness.

Position of the OP: Toxic (evil) people are children of the devil (as has been stated repeatedly, we can easily identify them by their pattern of behavior, the Bible says by their fruits) and, just as the Bible tells us to, we should separate ourselves and our lives from them.

Position of Arial: We can't possibly know who these people are, we have no way to tell (despite repeated explanations on how to identify them, including Scripture), so we should never separate anyone from ourselves.

Really?

That's literally how shallow your argument is. You just keep arguing it in different ways.

That's why it's silly to continue on with you.

 

[STAND]

Jesus is giving a series of analogies (parables) of what the kingdom of heaven is made up of.

Wrong, as usual. The Wheat and Tares teaching is not a parable.

When asked to explain it to His disciples, Jesus describes it in matter-of-fact language - not as a parable.

There are literally two different types of people in this world. Those generated by the devil and those generated by God. Some of God's children are not saved, but most, if not all, of the devil's children will never be saved because they have no internal fertility to accept the seeds of God's Words.

Truth and love must exist within first in order for someone to be capable of responding to Truth and love.

We love because God first loved us. Just as God hated Esau from the womb, God never loved the Tares.

They are not His children, they are not His sheep. As such, they cannot hear His voice, they cannot hear His call.

Only those who can hear God's voice will be saved.

 

[Arial]

This is just silliness.

Position of the OP: Toxic (evil) people are children of the devil (as has been stated repeatedly, we can easily identify them by their pattern of behavior, the Bible says by their fruits) and, just as the Bible tells us to, we should separate ourselves and our lives from them.

The Bible does not speak about toxic people. Jesus identifies the tares, not as toxic people but as unbelievers---those who will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. Not all people who you would consider toxic are evil and they are not all unbelievers. Deliberate toxicity can be observed but it does not determine the person to be evil or unbelieving. Children of the devil are unbelievers. The opposite of children of God who are believers. They are not everyone who is toxic. Are we then to turn the table and say everyone who is not toxic is a child of God? Evil is not the definition of toxic, as you state above.

Position of Arial: We can't possibly know who these people are, we have no way to tell (despite repeated explanations on how to identify them, including Scripture), so we should never separate anyone from ourselves.

You use the example of the wheat and tares and call the tares toxic people, and the wheat non-toxic people. But that is incorrect. Jesus is talking about the kingdom of heaven, what it is like, and who is in it, which btw He is the one who plants the good seed. (You have actually missed the central message in every parable in that series of parables.) So the question, and the very thing I addressed is, who are the tares according to Jesus?

They are the ones who are thrown into the fire at the end of the age. Do you honestly believe that He refers to all the "toxic" people?

Now what is more important? To shut our eyes to what is given in the scriptures in favor of sticking to what we want to believe? Or rightly dividing (handling) the word of God?

If the tares are identified by Jesus as being those who do not inherit the kingdom of heaven, and the wheat as those who do. and He says to leave them alongside one another (both in the world at the same time) and His angels will separate them at harvest; and all the good seed who inherit the kingdom are planted in this world by Him, He knows who they are, and we do not, we cannot make that judgment according to whether we consider a person toxic or not.

Many of us fight against those who preach the gospel to us, many of us have a "toxic" nature of disruption, going against the grain, arguing, deceiving. Many of us who now believe were once drug addicts, or alcoholics, black sheep of our families, rebels, disagreeable, contentious, causing all kinds of grief and hardship to our friends and family. And unbelief changed to belief. So don't confuse "toxic" with irredeemable. Don't confuse "toxic" with the tares.

 

[Arial]

Wrong, as usual. The Wheat and Tares teaching is not a parable.

When asked to explain it to His disciples, Jesus describes it in matter-of-fact language - not as a parable.

There are literally two different types of people in this world. Those generated by the devil and those generated by God. Some of God's children are not saved, but most, if not all, of the devil's children will never be saved because they have no internal fertility to accept the seeds of God's Words.

Truth and love must exist within first in order for someone to be capable of responding to Truth and love.

We love because God first loved us. Just as God hated Esau from the womb, God never loved the Tares.

They are not His children, they are not His sheep. As such, they cannot hear His voice, they cannot hear His call.

Only those who can hear God's voice will be saved.

There is a lot wrong and also contradictory within itself in what you say here. But I am not inclined to waste time pointing it all out. But the devil does not generate anyone, and God regenerates His people from their natural condition. But here you basically acknowledge that the tares are unbelievers, where as previously you have identified them as toxic people, and toxic people has been defined by you as those who cause us problems and interfere with out spiritual progress. So be consistent. Pick one side or the the other.

 

[STAND]

The Bible does not speak about toxic people. Jesus identifies the tares, not as toxic people but as unbelievers---those who will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. Not all people who you would consider toxic are evil and they are not all unbelievers. Deliberate toxicity can be observed but it does not determine the person to be evil or unbelieving. Children of the devil are unbelievers. The opposite of children of God who are believers. They are not everyone who is toxic. Are we then to turn the table and say everyone who is not toxic is a child of God? Evil is not the definition of toxic, as you state above.

You use the example of the wheat and tares and call the tares toxic people, and the wheat non-toxic people. But that is incorrect. Jesus is talking about the kingdom of heaven, what it is like, and who is in it, which btw He is the one who plants the good seed. (You have actually missed the central message in every parable in that series of parables.) So the question, and the very thing I addressed is, who are the tares according to Jesus?

They are the ones who are thrown into the fire at the end of the age. Do you honestly believe that He refers to all the "toxic" people?

Now what is more important? To shut our eyes to what is given in the scriptures in favor of sticking to what we want to believe? Or rightly dividing (handling) the word of God?

If the tares are identified by Jesus as being those who do not inherit the kingdom of heaven, and the wheat as those who do. and He says to leave them alongside one another (both in the world at the same time) and His angels will separate them at harvest; and all the good seed who inherit the kingdom are planted in this world by Him, He knows who they are, and we do not, we cannot make that judgment according to whether we consider a person toxic or not.

Many of us fight against those who preach the gospel to us, many of us have a "toxic" nature of disruption, going against the grain, arguing, deceiving. Many of us who now believe were once drug addicts, or alcoholics, black sheep of our families, rebels, disagreeable, contentious, causing all kinds of grief and hardship to our friends and family. And unbelief changed to belief. So don't confuse "toxic" with irredeemable. Don't confuse "toxic" with the tares.

Since you're just gonna keep parroting your own nonsense, show exactly where Jesus identifies Tares as unbelievers.

 

[STAND]

There is a lot wrong and also contradictory within itself in what you say here. But I am not inclined to waste time pointing it all out. But the devil does not generate anyone, and God regenerates His people from their natural condition. But here you basically acknowledge that the tares are unbelievers, where as previously you have identified them as toxic people, and toxic people has been defined by you as those who cause us problems and interfere with out spiritual progress. So be consistent. Pick one side or the the other.

I've never identified the Tares as simply unbelievers. I've been consistent in claiming they are children of the devil, just as the Bible says they are. Matt. 13:38

You just like to repeatedly make accusations long after you have been proven wrong.

It is a technique of somebody who has no other card to play.

 

[Arial]

Since you're just gonna keep parroting your own nonsense, show exactly where Jesus identifies Tares as unbelievers.

I already did.
Post #106. It helps to read posts before jumping the gun with accusations.

 

[Arial]

I've never identified the Tares as simply unbelievers. I've been consistent in claiming they are children of the devil, just as the Bible says they are. Matt. 13:38

They are not His children, they are not His sheep. As such, they cannot hear His voice, they cannot hear His call.

That would be unbelievers.

The definition of a person toxic to a forum, sometimes also known as a troll, is a person who proves they cannot carry on a decent respectful conversation without making their posts about the poster, never giving any consideration or interaction with what other posters do say, but only remark against the poster; will not address points made or answer questions; exhibits hostility toward disagreement and holds grudges against posters for disagreeing then follows them around to cause trouble wherever they are; they accuse others of doing what they themselves are doing and play the victim card.

So I take counsel from the Holy Spirit from the place where it is found.

Prov 23:9 Do not speak in the hearing of a fool for he will despise the wisdom of your words.

Prov 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.

Prov26:4 So not answer a fool according to his folly or ou yourself will be just like him.

and bid you so long.

 

[STAND]

I already did.
Post #106. It helps to read posts before jumping the gun with accusations.

I'm sorry that you're mistaken.

"... the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; ..."

Matt. 13:38-39

There is no further explanation by Jesus than that.

Tares may not believe, but they are not simply unbelievers.

 

[grace2]

Tares may not believe, but they are not simply unbelievers.

They spread a false god, the triune god.

 

[Arial]

I'm sorry that you're mistaken.

"... the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; ..."

Matt. 13:38-39

There is no further explanation by Jesus than that.

Tares may not believe, but they are not simply unbelievers.

Two types of people. Those who are the children of the wicked one. And those who are children of the kingdom.

Children of the wicked one are unbelievers. Children of the kingdom are those in Christ---believers. A person who does not believe is by definition an unbeliever.

 

[grace2]

Two types of people. Those who are the children of the wicked one. And those who are children of the kingdom.

Children of the wicked one are unbelievers. Children of the kingdom are those in Christ---believers. A person who does not believe is by definition an unbeliever.

lopsided analysis.

Unbelievers are encluded all ignorant people of God's word.

wicked ones knowingly spread a false god to the world.

They are much worse than simple unbelievers.

 

[STAND]

Two types of people. Those who are the children of the wicked one. And those who are children of the kingdom.

Children of the wicked one are unbelievers. Children of the kingdom are those in Christ---believers. A person who does not believe is by definition an unbeliever.

You can parrot yourself all you like. And yes, I do know that you will.

Unlike myself, you have no Biblical proof of your position.

Jesus very clearly states, " the tares are the children of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil."
Matt. 13:38-39

Lots of people are unbelievers, and many Christians are unbelievers prior to being called/saved.

Tares are evil, toxic people who will never come to a saving grace. They are the children of the devil.

 

[STAND]

Children of the wicked one are unbelievers.

Actually, just before the Wheat and Tares teaching by Jesus, He teaches that there are a certain people in the world that even HE has no intention of saving.

This teaching is Matt. 13:10-15 and it completely obliterates your repeated claim that Tares are simply unbelievers.

As stated, and thoroughly proven, Tares are literally children of the devil. And toxic people are Tares.

 

[grace2]

Actually, just before the Wheat and Tares teaching by Jesus, He teaches that there are a certain people in the world that even HE has no intention of saving.

This teaching is Matt. 13:10-15 and it completely obliterates your repeated claim that Tares are simply unbelievers.

As stated, and thoroughly proven, Tares are literally children of the devil. And toxic people are Tares.

They are professed believers who spread the false gospel to the world.

Remember Peter says God's household will be judged first.

 

[Arial]

Actually, just before the Wheat and Tares teaching by Jesus, He teaches that there are a certain people in the world that even HE has no intention of saving.

This teaching is Matt. 13:10-15 and it completely obliterates your repeated claim that Tares are simply unbelievers.

As stated, and thoroughly proven, Tares are literally children of the devil. And toxic people are Tares.

In John 6 Jesus tells us that the only ones who come to Him are the ones that God is giving to Him and those who come He will give eternal life.

In John 10 He tells us that the ones who do not believe Him do not believe because they are not His sheep. Those are the ones who He has no intention of saving. Those who are not His sheep. And His sheep don't become His sheep. They were always His sheep before the foundation of the world. (Eph 1:4) They come to Him when the Father draws them. (John 6) The exact same thing is meant by the tares and the wheat. The wheat represents the good seed that God planted. The tares are the children of the devil. Jesus and the Bible as whole, never has a teaching of "toxic" people. That is a gross misuse of scripture. That is reading whatever ones' personal opinion of "toxic" is, into the scriptures. Which is changing the word of God. Which is forbidden.

Not all tares are "toxic" people. A great many are very nice and get along well with others. That is not the basis for salvation.

Not all toxic people are tares. If that were the case, there are potentially some who could identify even you as a tare.

 

[grace2]

In John 6 Jesus tells us that the only ones who come to Him are the ones that God is giving to Him and those who come He will give eternal life.

In John 10 He tells us that the ones who do not believe Him do not believe because they are not His sheep. Those are the ones who He has no intention of saving. Those who are not His sheep. And His sheep don't become His sheep. They were always His sheep before the foundation of the world. (Eph 1:4) They come to Him when the Father draws them. (John 6) The exact same thing is meant by the tares and the wheat. The wheat represents the good seed that God planted. The tares are the children of the devil. Jesus and the Bible as whole, never has a teaching of "toxic" people. That is a gross misuse of scripture. That is reading whatever ones' personal opinion of "toxic" is, into the scriptures. Which is changing the word of God. Which is forbidden.

Not all tares are "toxic" people. A great many are very nice and get along well with others. That is not the basis for salvation.

Not all toxic people are tares. If that were the case, there are potentially some who could identify even you as a tare.

All opposed to Triune god-believing churches are tares according to Trin-believing churches standards.

So if you don't make it clear that you are opposed to their faith, you are ok.

It is all about how you present your faith.