Covenant Theology vs. Dispensationalsim

[Carbon]

A question for @CrowCross and other @dispensationalists,

Why do you still insist on a kind of separation between Jew and Gentile in the millennium? In New Testament times, the wall of partition or hostility that formerly divided Jews and Gentiles was permanently taken away by Christ.

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, Eph 2:14-15.


This is a big issue, isn't it? How do you get around it? What Christ has done wasnt quite good enough?

 

[Carbon]

God's people.

A. Covenant Theology
Believes that God has one people, the Church, with two manifestations of it, one in the Old Testament and the other in the New Testament. What God has been doing since the fall of man concerns the calling out of a people to be His own. Thus, the saints of God of the Old and New Testament eras compose the one body of Christ.

B. Dispensationalism
postulates that God has two peoples -- Israel, the Old Testament people of God (God's earthly people), and the Church, the New Testament people of God (His heavenly people) -- with a strong antithesis between the two. Never do the two meet as far as equalling each other or including the one in the other.

God's plan for His people.

A. Covenant theology states that since God has one people, the Church, He also has one plan in all the ages since the fall of Adam -- to call out this one people into one body in both the Old Testament and the New Testament ages.

B. Dispensationalism believes that since God has two peoples, Israel and the Church, He also has two plans -- a separate plan for each of these two distinct peoples. For Israel, His plan is the kingdom, which is yet to come, in light of Israel's rejection of the kingdom at Christ's coming. Concerning the Church, which is only present on earth during the Church age (which is a parenthetical period until God gets back to Israel and the kingdom), God's plan is to call out a heavenly people for Himself from the New Testament era.

 

[Carbon]

Ligonier Panel: Covenant Theology, Dispensationalism, and Scripture


Many will find this enjoyable, especially since R.C. Sproul is in it.

 

[CrowCross]

Yes, there are some tough situations here. But if you study into these things, you will surely find it is mainly the dispensationalists who claim it is anti-Christian if someone was not a dispensationalist. They were pretty (maybe still are) with this, Christians are really frowned upon if they are not dispensational.

I myself won't tag a dispensationalist as a heretic, but I do believe it is walking the fence. I also believe that if many actually understood what was taught, they wouldn't stay with the system.

But as we go forward here, much should come out.

I'm still waiting for someone to show dispensationalists are incorrect.

See ya at the pre-trib rapture?

 

[CrowCross]

Fair enough. Hope I did a good job explaining it for you.

No, I take it literally. It is literally present.

We're not in the 1000 year reign. Look around.

 

[Carbon]

I'm still waiting for someone to show dispensationalists are incorrect.

Well, you'll never see that if you deny it.

See ya at the pre-trib rapture?

There is no pre-trib rapture.

 

[Carbon]

We're not in the 1000 year reign. Look around.

You have to realize the 1000 years isnt literally 1000 years.

 

[CrowCross]

A question for @CrowCross and other @dispensationalists,

Why do you still insist on a kind of separation between Jew and Gentile in the millennium? In New Testament times, the wall of partition or hostility that formerly divided Jews and Gentiles was permanently taken away by Christ.

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, Eph 2:14-15.


This is a big issue, isn't it? How do you get around it? What Christ has done wasnt quite good enough?

During the trib the Christians will be gone...delivered from the wrath. Unbelieving Jew will be left behind as well as unbelieving people.
The main purpose of the trib is to bring the unsaved Jews back to God via Jesus.

 

[CrowCross]

You have to realize the 1000 years isnt literally 1000 years.

I explained it in a previous post....1000 years is mentioned 6 times. 6 Times. One, two, three, four, five SIX times.

Why should I not take it as literal? Why should I take it symbolically? What makes your symbolism correct?

No Carbon, it's a literal 1,000 years.

 

[Carbon]

I explained it in a previous post....1000 years is mentioned 6 times. 6 Times. One, two, three, four, five SIX times.

Why should I not take it as literal? Why should I take it symbolically? What makes your symbolism correct?

No Carbon, it's a literal 1,000 years.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree.

I never said I would convince you.

But we will get there.

 

[CrowCross]

Well, you'll never see that if you deny it.

There is no pre-trib rapture.

Dan 12.

Do we need to talk about no white horse at the ascention again?
Do we have to discuss christians not destined for wrath?
Do we need to speak about the days of Noah again?
Do we need to speak about the mansions and the relation to the Jewish wedding?
Do we need to speak of 2 Tim 2..the gathering and departue?

But, you're right carbon....there is no pre-trib rapture.

 

[CrowCross]

Well, we will have to agree to disagree.

I never said I would convince you.

But we will get there.

Yup.....until you present answers to my question we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Carbon]

Dan 12.

Do we need to talk about no white horse at the ascention again?
Do we have to discuss christians not destined for wrath?
Do we need to speak about the days of Noah again?
Do we need to speak about the mansions and the relation to the Jewish wedding?
Do we need to speak of 2 Tim 2..the gathering and departue?

But, you're right carbon....there is no pre-trib rapture.

We had a similar discussion before, and you haven't considered what scripture teaches about the rider on the White horse?
The rider on the white horse is Christ. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:34.

 

[Carbon]

Yup.....until you present answers to my question we will have to agree to disagree.

I'm glad you agree.

 

[Arial]

Does it?

Same

Yes, Christ's first and second coming.

Agree. I should have been more clear.

Agree

Agreed. Things will heat up near the end.

We are in agreement then. It was the binding of Satan and the wording that I was disagreeing with.

 

[CrowCross]

We had a similar discussion before, and you haven't considered what scripture teaches about the rider on the White horse?
The rider on the white horse is Christ. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:34.

What, ever, Carbon????

The point is....Jesus didn't leave on a white horse.

Acts 1 says Jesus will return the way He left.

 

[Carbon]

What, ever, Carbon????

The point is....Jesus didn't leave on a white horse.

Acts 1 says Jesus will return the way He left.

Ummm, where did I say Jesus left on a white horse? Are you mixing me up with someone else?

 

[Arial]

What, ever, Carbon????

The point is....Jesus didn't leave on a white horse.

Acts 1 says Jesus will return the way He left.

Please don't start your white horse rant again! You have yet to do what you need to do in order for this to be a legitimate and productive conversation. See post #25 and 30.

 

[Carbon]

What, ever, Carbon????

The point is....Jesus didn't leave on a white horse.

Acts 1 says Jesus will return the way He left.

Just for the sake of being clear.
The rider on the white horse is our Lord Jesus Christ.
The rider on the red horse represents slaughter
The rider on the black horse represents economic hardship and poverty due to injustice.
The rider on the pale horse represents death, the sword (warfare), famine, pestilence, and wild beasts.

hope this helps

 

[Arial]

Dan 12.

Do we need to talk about no white horse at the ascention again?
Do we have to discuss christians not destined for wrath?
Do we need to speak about the days of Noah again?
Do we need to speak about the mansions and the relation to the Jewish wedding?
Do we need to speak of 2 Tim 2..the gathering and departue?

But, you're right carbon....there is no pre-trib rapture.

Absolutely we do not. That is not what this thread is about. Instead of refuting Covenant theology all you are doing is presenting the dispensational interpretation of certain events---- which we already know---and changing he subject by asking us to answer questions that have to do with those particular interpretations from Rev. That is like asking someone to prove something they do not believe. Nothing we will say, and nothing that has been said, in countless threads, will ever penetrate the wall and be considered as an answer.

How about you go deal with post #37 which shows how Covenant theology deals with revelation and refute it since you disagree with it, using a foundation on which to do so. That does not mean things like "This is not the thousand years, Look around." or "Christians leave here in the rapture." or "Jesus didn't leave on a white horse."