Catholic Attack on Literal Interpretation of Scripture: Full of Holes and Logical Fallacies

[ChristB4us]

If Jesus is your brother?
And Mary is his mother she must be your mother also!
Jn 19:26
Rev 12:17

Are you doing the will of the Father in Heaven in order to be His brother?

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

But the Catholic Church says no by how they add the Roman Catholic Church to that gospel of Jesus Christ and making it the gospel of Jesus Christ and His Church.

Does that mean Catholics are not saved?

No, because they believe on Jesus Christ BUT because they believe the Roman Catholic Church that faith alone is not enough for salvation that they need to be a member of the Roman Catholic Church AND to do the works of Catholicism within her in doing the sacraments, is why saved Catholics are coming short of that rest in Jesus Christ as saved believers by how they labor in unbelief, thinking they need to be a member of the Roman Catholic church and to do the sacraments within her which none of His disciples, including Peter said for us to do.

So it is a matter of who or what you love more? Jesus Christ as God your Saviour because He is the One you called on to save you OR the RCC which is not the name under Heaven given among men to call on to save them.

Acts 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. 13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
Even Peter acknowledges Jesus as that rock the church is built upon as it is that chief cornerstone that the Jews had rejected.
So are you going to follow Peter in following Jesus Himself or are you going to live in denial that the RCC has been ripping you off of your belief in Jesus Christ that you are saved simply for having believed in Him as Lord and that God has raised Him from the dead?

Look at the gospel as presented by Paul on how we are saved with nary a mention of the church established supposedly by Peter.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

All of the RCC teachings is to make you NOT look at the scripture so you will continue to be a slave to a system of works that was designed that way to take away your assurance of salvation from believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead.

May God give you the love you need to love Jesus more than the catholic church to leave her to rest in Him as saved and to trust Him as your personal Good Shepherd & friend to help you to follow Him for that is the only way we can live that reconciled relationship with God and that is through faith in Jesus Christ to help us to do this. So go before that throne of grace & ask Jesus for help to see the truth in His words now.

 

[ChristB4us]

How many have been healed by your shadow?

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Even the apostle John does not refer to the church by Peter for abiding in Him. Note the 2 commandments for abiding in Him in vs 23.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Nary a mention of the Catholic Church in Rome as if started by Peter is required for saved believers such as yourself and I for abiding in Him.

So ask Jesus for help to give you His love to love Him more than the Catholic Church to leave it to rest in Him that you are saved by faith alone & that you can follow Him by faith in Him alone because you are trusting Him to be your personal Good Shepherd & Friend to do this.

 

[donadams]

When the whole earth is covered in water and your in the only ark
Is it wise to say leave that ark to be united to God?’

Nor to leave the only ark of salvation established by Jesus Christ!

 

[Frank Robert]

You still have done no more than what I said Catholics always do.

In case you did not read my comment? My comment was: "The Catholic Church, for example, traditionally interprets this verse as indicating that Peter is the foundational rock upon which the church is built."

They support themselves by themselves.

Where do you get support for your religious denomination's beliefs?

They are their own witness and the only witness they have. That does not constitute proof. li

Can you prove your religious denomination's beliefs?

It would never pass even in a court of law in the natural. It would be scoffed at as I now scoff at the RCC doing it.

In light of the tens of thousands of Protestant denominations, would you be willing to put your religious beliefs into a court of law?

 

[donadams]

We must take Matt 16:18 literally and say Peter is the rock! Amen?

 

[donadams]

Please explain the whole episode of Peter mediating between the chief priests and Jesus.

Why does Jesus allow to be the mediator?

Why does Jesus identify Peter with himself? Matt 17:24-27

Where’s the coins for the other apostles?

Why does Jesus put Peter in charge of not only the Glock but also the apostles? Jn 21:17

 

[Frank Robert]

Then is only Jesus has the words of eternal life, RC Sproul does not

I know practically nothing about Sproul. His comments about a "literal reading" appeared to be a slight modification of the historical-critical method. If you wish to expand on Sproul's philosophy be my guest.

 

[donadams]

Please explain the whole episode of Peter mediating between the chief priests and Jesus.

Why does Jesus allow to be the mediator?

Why does Jesus identify Peter with himself?

Where’s the coins for the other apostles?

Why does Jesus put Peter in charge of not only the Glock but also the apostles? Jn 21:17

 

[donadams]

Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

God chose Peter! Ref: mattb16:18

“Us” the apostles
Jesus is not one of the choices but the one who is choosing, and He chose Peter

 

[donadams]

Peter always first and singled out!
Leader of the apostles!
Appointed by Christ the Head of the church on earth in Christ’s place till He returns in glory!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

Acts 1:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.

Peter receives revelation from the father!

Matt 16:16-17
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Peter receives the keys of the kingdom (jurisdictional authority) to govern the church in Christ’s place till he returns in glory!

It’s Peter’s person that is blessed not his confession, you can’t give the keys of jurisdictional authority to a confession but to a person!

Peter takes charge!

Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said,

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

How many times does Peter receive the Spirit?
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 2
Acts 4:8

 

[donadams]

No not saved, not until we abide in christ faithful to the end of our lives
Jn 3:16 Jn 15:4 Mk 13:12 Matt 24:13
And many more


Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

 

[donadams]

I know practically nothing about Sproul. His comments about a "literal reading" appeared to be a slight modification of the historical-critical method. If you wish to expand on Sproul's philosophy be my guest.

Can we read scripture and make doctrine (faith) for ourselves or did christ establish the church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation? Matt 28:19

 

[Mr GLee]

Acts 4:15

There simply is not defense against the Christian defense the "sword of the Holy Spirit" The power of our unseen Holy Father (all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

We are not saved by temporal signs as shadows of the eternal.

Without shadows Catholicism loses their private foundation (out of sight out of mind) as in. as in. .. Who believes in a unseen Holy Father, Holy See ?

Its sola scriptura the gospel alone that saves. Not a law of earthly fathers. . dying mankind. They have another authority other than the word of God alone. (sola scriptura)

The same gospel key that the gates of hell could never prevail against that saved Peter. Revealed by our Holy Father in heaven. (Mathew 16)

Not by flesh and blood Peter our brother in the Lord . Peter the denier failed to protect the gospel key the gates of hell could never prevail against. Peter rebuked God and forbade the Son of man Jesus from doing the will of God as it is written (sola scriptura)

Again, Not revealed by dying mankind as a "legion of venerable fathers that call sola scriptura heresy. (Acts 24)

No sign gifts. ( Charismatic). I did it proves something.

Thats the kind of idea the unbelieving fathers performed. Those you must call patron saints. (inspired earthly) . . turning things upside down.

The fathers making Jesus into a circus seal. Work your magic show us a miracle then when we see it with our own eyes. . then we will believe

They have no faith as it is written needed . Rather . . . Just look and see for it your own self.

It's the kind of recipe needed to develop a legion of gods in the likeness of men. Again, a called patron (to Rome) saints (3500 and rising)

To the law . . . . .

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

And its broken testimony. . . .

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Laying on of hands is simply a form of prayer a "request made known". The gospel the power of God unto salvation alone saves. not a legion of father as gods in the likeness of dying mankind

Note. . .(Purple bold my offering.)

Acts 14:7And there they preached the gospel.And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith (power from God) to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet.. .(The loving commandment of our Holy Father not seen Not in Rome) And he leaped and walked. And when the people (law of the dying fathers) saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods (legion patron saints) are come down to us in the likeness of men.
\And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.

 

[Frank Robert]

Can we read scripture and make doctrine (faith) for ourselves or did christ establish the church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation? Matt 28:19

Catholics and Protestants have different beliefs. Still we all brothers in Christ. If we believe in Sola Fide then we believe that those who live their faith in Christ will be saved.

Can we read scripture and make doctrine (faith) for ourselves

Catholics have a lot of freedom in interpreting the Bible as long as it does not interfere with faith or morals. Protestants have thousands of denominations so I imagine that for them it depends on their particular denomination.

did christ establish the church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation? Matt 28:19

Yes, in Matt 28:19 Jesus instructs his disciples to go out into the world, spreading the message of Christianity

 

[Mr GLee]

If Jesus is your brother?
And Mary is his mother she must be your mother also!
Jn 19:26
Rev 12:17

The chaste virgin bride the church called the free woman is made up Jesus's of brothers and sister of the Lord as the mother of all believers. Mary included. The gospel seed (Christ) not the fleshly seed of dying mankind.

Born again Paul is shown as a surrogate mother who espouses Timothy our brother in the Lord a member of the chaste virgin bride the church. She has many more children than she which has a fleshly husband and mother. Tens of thousands of thousands. innumerable.


Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Galatians 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

 

[donadams]

You still have done no more than what I said Catholics always do. They support themselves by themselves. They are their own witness and the only witness they have. That does not constitute proof. It would never pass even in a court of law in the natural. It would be scoffed at as I now scoff at the RCC doing it.

Arial you don’t accept tradition (oral teaching)?

 

[donadams]

T

It is Catholic tradition. Tradition is not the same thing as truth.

As of 2020 there were an estimated 1.9 billion Muslim followers. Is that supposed to mean something. And wasn't it Jesus who said, "Wide is the gate that leads to destruction and many there be that go through it. Narrow is the gate that leads to life and few there be that find it."

Tradition is not the same as truth then why are we commanded to obey it? Matt 28:19-20
Tradition (oral teaching) or every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ.

Matt 28:19 does not say go write books and let the people make their own faith!

Nor is there more than one Christian faith revealed by Christ and taught by the apostolic church!
Eph 4:5

How many time does the New Testament say be of “one mind snd one heart”?

Thanks

 

[Mr GLee]

Tradition is not the same as truth then why are we commanded to obey it? Matt 28:19-20
Tradition (oral teaching) or every word the apostles heard from the mouth of Christ

Every word of God that came from the mouth of Holy spirits sent messenger was not words of the apostles. How beautiful are feet shod with the gospel as it is written. . . . after no oral tradition as a private interpretation (commentary) of dying mankind.

Do you mean like Peter obeyed? Obey who? Himself?

Mathew 16:22-23 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

 

[donadams]

Is this literal?
Galatians 1:19
But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

If you take it literal you add meaning

That it really means biological brother when it does not say so

And Matt 10:2 says the two James are the son of other men

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

Not the sons of Joseph!

Btw

Alphaeus was Joseph’s brother

 

[donadams]

There simply is not defense against the Christian defense the "sword of the Holy Spirit" The power of our unseen Holy Father (all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

We are not saved by temporal signs as shadows of the eternal.

Without shadows Catholicism loses their private foundation (out of sight out of mind) as in. as in. .. Who believes in a unseen Holy Father, Holy See ?

Its sola scriptura the gospel alone that saves. Not a law of earthly fathers. . dying mankind. They have another authority other than the word of God alone. (sola scriptura)

The same gospel key that the gates of hell could never prevail against that saved Peter. Revealed by our Holy Father in heaven. (Mathew 16)

Not by flesh and blood Peter our brother in the Lord . Peter the denier failed to protect the gospel key the gates of hell could never prevail against. Peter rebuked God and forbade the Son of man Jesus from doing the will of God as it is written (sola scriptura)

Again, Not revealed by dying mankind as a "legion of venerable fathers that call sola scriptura heresy. (Acts 24)

No sign gifts. ( Charismatic). I did it proves something.

Thats the kind of idea the unbelieving fathers performed. Those you must call patron saints. (inspired earthly) . . turning things upside down.

The fathers making Jesus into a circus seal. Work your magic show us a miracle then when we see it with our own eyes. . then we will believe

They have no faith as it is written needed . Rather . . . Just look and see for it your own self.

It's the kind of recipe needed to develop a legion of gods in the likeness of men. Again, a called patron (to Rome) saints (3500 and rising)

To the law . . . . .

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

And its broken testimony. . . .

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Laying on of hands is simply a form of prayer a "request made known". The gospel the power of God unto salvation alone saves. not a legion of father as gods in the likeness of dying mankind

Note. . .(Purple bold my offering.)

Acts 14:7And there they preached the gospel.And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith (power from God) to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet.. .(The loving commandment of our Holy Father not seen Not in Rome) And he leaped and walked. And when the people (law of the dying fathers) saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods (legion patron saints) are come down to us in the likeness of men.
\And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.

The gospel includes tradition or oral teaching Matt 28:19-20