Can We Determine the Age of the Universe and Earth Biblically?

[EarlyActs]

Okay then, explain the second creation account;

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

Genesis 2:4 is stating the topic for the following verses which is a re-enactment of the 6th day of creation but in more detail as to where the generations " of mankind" had come from.

Proof of that is at the end of verse 5 as there was not a man to till the ground for why Gid created a mist to water the earth.

Now if Genesis 2:4 is the topic with the following verses in expounding on that topic, then so is Genesis 1:1 is that topic where the following verses was about how God did that in verse 1 as it concludes in Genesis 2:1-3 on that 7th day of creation which means there was no break or lapse of time in those days from day one to day two as there was evening and morning each day; 24 hours.

Genesis 1:1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

So the second creation account PROVES how to apply Genesis 1:1 as the earth was not there and neither was the heavens in day one. All that was created that first day by that light, was to stablish the beginning, by its evening and morning that day as being what God mean; that very first day as in the beginning of time in creation.

And with evening and morning designating what a day is that first day, then there is no period of time lapsed between that first day and the second day as it literally took God 6 days to create the heavens and the earth and all the hosts of them to rest on the 7th day.

Glad you are learning the recitation format. I mentioned it back at 370

Yes

Okay then, explain the second creation account;

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

Genesis 2:4 is stating the topic for the following verses which is a re-enactment of the 6th day of creation but in more detail as to where the generations " of mankind" had come from.

Proof of that is at the end of verse 5 as there was not a man to till the ground for why Gid created a mist to water the earth.

Now if Genesis 2:4 is the topic with the following verses in expounding on that topic, then so is Genesis 1:1 is that topic where the following verses was about how God did that in verse 1 as it concludes in Genesis 2:1-3 on that 7th day of creation which means there was no break or lapse of time in those days from day one to day two as there was evening and morning each day; 24 hours.

Genesis 1:1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

So the second creation account PROVES how to apply Genesis 1:1 as the earth was not there and neither was the heavens in day one. All that was created that first day by that light, was to stablish the beginning, by its evening and morning that day as being what God mean; that very first day as in the beginning of time in creation.

And with evening and morning designating what a day is that first day, then there is no period of time lapsed between that first day and the second day as it literally took God 6 days to create the heavens and the earth and all the hosts of them to rest on the 7th day.

Glad you are seeing the recitation formula

1:1 is a section title.

 

[EarlyActs]

Glad you are learning the recitation format. I mentioned it back at 370

Yes

Glad you are seeing the recitation formula

1:1 is a section title.

Btw the two creations question came up on the Faulkner interview; people often have a problem right there. It is only resolved by knowing about recitation.

 

[EarlyActs]

Okay then, explain the second creation account;

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

Genesis 2:4 is stating the topic for the following verses which is a re-enactment of the 6th day of creation but in more detail as to where the generations " of mankind" had come from.

Proof of that is at the end of verse 5 as there was not a man to till the ground for why Gid created a mist to water the earth.

Now if Genesis 2:4 is the topic with the following verses in expounding on that topic, then so is Genesis 1:1 is that topic where the following verses was about how God did that in verse 1 as it concludes in Genesis 2:1-3 on that 7th day of creation which means there was no break or lapse of time in those days from day one to day two as there was evening and morning each day; 24 hours.

Genesis 1:1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

So the second creation account PROVES how to apply Genesis 1:1 as the earth was not there and neither was the heavens in day one. All that was created that first day by that light, was to stablish the beginning, by its evening and morning that day as being what God mean; that very first day as in the beginning of time in creation.

And with evening and morning designating what a day is that first day, then there is no period of time lapsed between that first day and the second day as it literally took God 6 days to create the heavens and the earth and all the hosts of them to rest on the 7th day.

Also those people are not having a problem with 2 accounts but with the idea that the text might be jumbled and refer to 2 creations.

Also this does not change anything about the earth already being there. In all background examples, about recitation, the pre-existing is a substantial time

 

[EarlyActs]

One other issue is to decide if “heavens” means the distant worlds. It is more likely to mean the local just above the firmament.

You may notice in 16 that an extra note is added ‘He made the stars too.’ Best if that is in ( ) bc he was saying he hadn’t covered it by talking about the objects that were signs.

Similarly what matters to Peter is whether speaking of the distant things or local earth. The earth could not work without its local partners. He didn’t mention local things at first but he would assume they are a unit from Gen 1:14-17 . Then he does mention them in the coming destruction, twice, to be clear. That again makes it significant not to mention when contrasting old universe and newer earth at first. Local things were part of Gen 1:14-17 not earlier.

 

[ChristB4us]

Glad you are learning the recitation format. I mentioned it back at 370

Yes

Glad you are seeing the recitation formula

1:1 is a section title.

It is not a recitation title as you put it when you apply that to mean the earth and the heavens were already there before Day One.

I apply Genesis 1:1 as the topic sentence of a paragraph and the following verses are the sentences in providing how God exactly did that in Genesis 1:1 to the conclusion in Genesis 2:1-3 for when God rested from doing His acts in all creation on that 7th day.

In the same way that God led Moses to testify about where the generations of mankind had come from by citing that topic sentence in Genesis 2:4 with the following verses like verse 5 as there was not a man to till the ground yet, to explain in detail what had exactly happened on the 6th day of creation for where the generations of mankind had come from.

So that is not a recitation formula as you apply that to mean for how you did it for Genesis 1:1 for that would mean mankind was there to till the ground before the creation of Adam and Eve in Genesis 2:4-5.

You are probably determined to write that book and so you may be resisting reproofs because that would mean you have to start all over again from scratch in throwing that book out since it is not of the truth. Only God can open your eyes to the truth in His words rather than continue on with what you had been taught by men in how to read His words.

 

[EarlyActs]

It is not a recitation title as you put it when you apply that to mean the earth and the heavens were already there before Day One.

I apply Genesis 1:1 as the topic sentence of a paragraph and the following verses are the sentences in providing how God exactly did that in Genesis 1:1 to the conclusion in Genesis 2:1-3 for when God rested from doing His acts in all creation on that 7th day.

In the same way that God led Moses to testify about where the generations of mankind had come from by citing that topic sentence in Genesis 2:4 with the following verses like verse 5 as there was not a man to till the ground yet, to explain in detail what had exactly happened on the 6th day of creation for where the generations of mankind had come from.

So that is not a recitation formula as you apply that to mean for how you did it for Genesis 1:1 for that would mean mankind was there to till the ground before the creation of Adam and Eve in Genesis 2:4-5.

You are probably determined to write that book and so you may be resisting reproofs because that would mean you have to start all over again from scratch in throwing that book out since it is not of the truth. Only God can open your eyes to the truth in His words rather than continue on with what you had been taught by men in how to read His words.

So there is no point listening to a rabbi explain recitation, who defeated German scholars through that?

Even if he didn’t, the range of time for earth being there before day 1 is fairly large and is not evolutionary. Creation is about the changes of habitable surfaces, not the materials to work with. That’s why there is a pottery comparison in 2P3.

Darkness on the deep means the total absence of light until it arrives on day 1. Not to be absolutist, but that can mean it was there the moment the dust of the initial explosion occurred. That’s what I mean by range. Lifeless and dark until day 1. Compare what the Webb scope found.

At the shorter end is the destructive punishment of formless and void but who knows when demons were first confined.

But fear not, there is not a chance of evolution either way,

 

[EarlyActs]

ChristB4US,
Do you know of passages that say the ways and mind of God are far beyond our grasp? If that is true, why would there be detail about other places and times in the small bit that is revealed to us? For ex., the end of Rom 11, quoting OT passages. That does not mean there are not other times and dealings which God has acted in.

Here is another factor to consider. God stretched out the stars--this surely must be referring to distant objects. This could happen very quickly, but until there is a slowing, the light from such things does not reach us. So the description is still accurate about distant objects, if such spreading occurred earlier than day 1.

This has to do with the question about Gen 1 which often comes up: what kind of light is on day 1 of the objects are not there til day 4? Was it 'miraculous light'? (it might be) Or was the narrative keeping to its POV--how the ancient near east person saw the night sky?

 

[EarlyActs]

Another question for ChrB4:
Is there any human activity in your view of revelation? Did the parchments or sheets just 'appear' to the person? To Jeremiah? To Luke? Is there any place in your mind for recitation until Joseph devises Hebrew?

 

[ChristB4us]

So there is no point listening to a rabbi explain recitation, who defeated German scholars through that?

Correct. Read the Bible as it is written with His discernment rather than some rabbi or commentary..

Even if he didn’t, the range of time for earth being there before day 1 is fairly large and is not evolutionary. Creation is about the changes of habitable surfaces, not the materials to work with. That’s why there is a pottery comparison in 2P3.

Remember how you had cited earlier that there was also a period of time before day 2? ?

Let's be fair then that by assuming there was a period of time before day one, then day one is not really the first day in according to God's words and therefore not true.

Darkness on the deep means the total absence of light until it arrives on day 1. Not to be absolutist, but that can mean it was there the moment the dust of the initial explosion occurred. That’s what I mean by range. Lifeless and dark until day 1. Compare what the Webb scope found.

Can you point to scripture where early church Christians had to wait centuries before they can rely on modern men to interpret the scripture for them?

At the shorter end is the destructive punishment of formless and void but who knows when demons were first confined.

It was at the fall of man when Satan, that old serpent, had tempted Adam & Eve for how that Satan had also fallen as well.

But fear not, there is not a chance of evolution either way,

I think you need His help to see that what you are conveying are segments derived from the old earth and age gap theory but repackaged.

In creation week, there was a purpose for each creation day as this all sets up the stage for history as in His story to be told.

There is no purpose for creation of the distant universe & an earth that became a wasteland as under water before creation week.

A cataclysm like that would infer sin and death was in the world before Adam & Eve had sinned and so takes away the glory point for how believing in Him is how we are saved if there can be other reasons for how sin and death can come into the world as well as in the univewrse.

 

[EarlyActs]

Correct. Read the Bible as it is written with His discernment rather than some rabbi or commentary..

Remember how you had cited earlier that there was also a period of time before day 2? ?

Let's be fair then that by assuming there was a period of time before day one, then day one is not really the first day in according to God's words and therefore not true.

Can you point to scripture where early church Christians had to wait centuries before they can rely on modern men to interpret the scripture for them?

It was at the fall of man when Satan, that old serpent, had tempted Adam & Eve for how that Satan had also fallen as well.

I think you need His help to see that what you are conveying are segments derived from the old earth and age gap theory but repackaged.

In creation week, there was a purpose for each creation day as this all sets up the stage for history as in His story to be told.

There is no purpose for creation of the distant universe & an earth that became a wasteland as under water before creation week.

A cataclysm like that would infer sin and death was in the world before Adam & Eve had sinned and so takes away the glory point for how believing in Him is how we are saved if there can be other reasons for how sin and death can come into the world as well as in the univewrse.

I don't trust people who read no lexical aids. 90% of what you know about the Bible is due to good lexical skills. The rabbi is a God-fearing, Bible-defending man. You are being ridiculous.

 

[EarlyActs]

I don't trust people who read no lexical aids. 90% of what you know about the Bible is due to good lexical skills. The rabbi is a God-fearing, Bible-defending man. You are being ridiculo

Correct. Read the Bible as it is written with His discernment rather than some rabbi or commentary..

Remember how you had cited earlier that there was also a period of time before day 2? ?

Let's be fair then that by assuming there was a period of time before day one, then day one is not really the first day in according to God's words and therefore not true.

Can you point to scripture where early church Christians had to wait centuries before they can rely on modern men to interpret the scripture for them?

It was at the fall of man when Satan, that old serpent, had tempted Adam & Eve for how that Satan had also fallen as well.

I think you need His help to see that what you are conveying are segments derived from the old earth and age gap theory but repackaged.

In creation week, there was a purpose for each creation day as this all sets up the stage for history as in His story to be told.

There is no purpose for creation of the distant universe & an earth that became a wasteland as under water before creation week.

A cataclysm like that would infer sin and death was in the world before Adam & Eve had sinned and so takes away the glory point for how believing in Him is how we are saved if there can be other reasons for how sin and death can come into the world as well as in the univewrse.

re time before day 1

logically, if there was time before day 1 there was time before day 2

The thing is, you are not being clear: day 1 of what? Does the text say there was ABSOLUTELY nothing else in existence before day 1? It does not. It has a POV, a stage: that which was going on on earth and seen from there.

 

[EarlyActs]

Correct. Read the Bible as it is written with His discernment rather than some rabbi or commentary..

Remember how you had cited earlier that there was also a period of time before day 2? ?

Let's be fair then that by assuming there was a period of time before day one, then day one is not really the first day in according to God's words and therefore not true.

Can you point to scripture where early church Christians had to wait centuries before they can rely on modern men to interpret the scripture for them?

It was at the fall of man when Satan, that old serpent, had tempted Adam & Eve for how that Satan had also fallen as well.

I think you need His help to see that what you are conveying are segments derived from the old earth and age gap theory but repackaged.

In creation week, there was a purpose for each creation day as this all sets up the stage for history as in His story to be told.

There is no purpose for creation of the distant universe & an earth that became a wasteland as under water before creation week.

A cataclysm like that would infer sin and death was in the world before Adam & Eve had sinned and so takes away the glory point for how believing in Him is how we are saved if there can be other reasons for how sin and death can come into the world as well as in the univewrse.

re early Christians:
It is important to know that Ptolemy had worked out that we were in a small niche of a huge universe; and that is before early Christians.

 

[EarlyActs]

"as it is written"
That is what I'm saying. It was recitation format. There was no Hebrew script until Joseph; he collected all the verbal accounts. So I am reading it as written. A title line is not action in a story; it is a section title. 1:1 is a section title, as is 2:4, as is 5:1, 10:1, etc.

 

[EarlyActs]

Correct. Read the Bible as it is written with His discernment rather than some rabbi or commentary..

Remember how you had cited earlier that there was also a period of time before day 2? ?

Let's be fair then that by assuming there was a period of time before day one, then day one is not really the first day in according to God's words and therefore not true.

Can you point to scripture where early church Christians had to wait centuries before they can rely on modern men to interpret the scripture for them?

It was at the fall of man when Satan, that old serpent, had tempted Adam & Eve for how that Satan had also fallen as well.

I think you need His help to see that what you are conveying are segments derived from the old earth and age gap theory but repackaged.

In creation week, there was a purpose for each creation day as this all sets up the stage for history as in His story to be told.

There is no purpose for creation of the distant universe & an earth that became a wasteland as under water before creation week.

A cataclysm like that would infer sin and death was in the world before Adam & Eve had sinned and so takes away the glory point for how believing in Him is how we are saved if there can be other reasons for how sin and death can come into the world as well as in the univewrse.

There is no proof that the revolt of Satan had any connection to the timing of the earth. None at all. There is way too little information to go on. That's why I leave it open.

 

[EarlyActs]

Correct. Read the Bible as it is written with His discernment rather than some rabbi or commentary..

Remember how you had cited earlier that there was also a period of time before day 2? ?

Let's be fair then that by assuming there was a period of time before day one, then day one is not really the first day in according to God's words and therefore not true.

Can you point to scripture where early church Christians had to wait centuries before they can rely on modern men to interpret the scripture for them?

It was at the fall of man when Satan, that old serpent, had tempted Adam & Eve for how that Satan had also fallen as well.

I think you need His help to see that what you are conveying are segments derived from the old earth and age gap theory but repackaged.

In creation week, there was a purpose for each creation day as this all sets up the stage for history as in His story to be told.

There is no purpose for creation of the distant universe & an earth that became a wasteland as under water before creation week.

A cataclysm like that would infer sin and death was in the world before Adam & Eve had sinned and so takes away the glory point for how believing in Him is how we are saved if there can be other reasons for how sin and death can come into the world as well as in the univewrse.

"No purpose"
re distant objects. Exactly. That's why I have no problem saying they were there a long time like 2P3. It makes no difference. It is not the purpose-full localy system which God made for earth.

The purpose of a place of punishment would be...uhhhh...punishment. Do you have a problem with that? Or with God redeeming such a place? Why?

 

[EarlyActs]

Correct. Read the Bible as it is written with His discernment rather than some rabbi or commentary..

Remember how you had cited earlier that there was also a period of time before day 2? ?

Let's be fair then that by assuming there was a period of time before day one, then day one is not really the first day in according to God's words and therefore not true.

Can you point to scripture where early church Christians had to wait centuries before they can rely on modern men to interpret the scripture for them?

It was at the fall of man when Satan, that old serpent, had tempted Adam & Eve for how that Satan had also fallen as well.

I think you need His help to see that what you are conveying are segments derived from the old earth and age gap theory but repackaged.

In creation week, there was a purpose for each creation day as this all sets up the stage for history as in His story to be told.

There is no purpose for creation of the distant universe & an earth that became a wasteland as under water before creation week.

A cataclysm like that would infer sin and death was in the world before Adam & Eve had sinned and so takes away the glory point for how believing in Him is how we are saved if there can be other reasons for how sin and death can come into the world as well as in the univewrse.

"inference of sin and death"
No, it was obviously not human sin. I cannot imaging how you manage things, because you have this end-around every time you mention it.

btw, for human sin to come into the world, it has to be enacted, participated in, done. It can't be because a place was a prison for others. Totally different questions.

Aren't you at all interested in the fact that you came along here just when I had set down to write out a short book? God's timing!

 

[EarlyActs]

Correct. Read the Bible as it is written with His discernment rather than some rabbi or commentary..

Remember how you had cited earlier that there was also a period of time before day 2? ?

Let's be fair then that by assuming there was a period of time before day one, then day one is not really the first day in according to God's words and therefore not true.

Can you point to scripture where early church Christians had to wait centuries before they can rely on modern men to interpret the scripture for them?

It was at the fall of man when Satan, that old serpent, had tempted Adam & Eve for how that Satan had also fallen as well.

I think you need His help to see that what you are conveying are segments derived from the old earth and age gap theory but repackaged.

In creation week, there was a purpose for each creation day as this all sets up the stage for history as in His story to be told.

There is no purpose for creation of the distant universe & an earth that became a wasteland as under water before creation week.

A cataclysm like that would infer sin and death was in the world before Adam & Eve had sinned and so takes away the glory point for how believing in Him is how we are saved if there can be other reasons for how sin and death can come into the world as well as in the univewrse.

repackaging
Nope. No evolution. All old earth and gap beliefs that I have heard are inserting evolution. I do not. Time itself does not mean evolution occurred--unless you are a traitor! These other places were lifeless. And whatever time the earth was there was lifeless--not counting demons, if so. I am not absolutist about that.

Everytime I hear about evolution, I go: I wonder why I can't come up with a 3rd and 4th arm to help me, just by 'willing' it, just by being in need of it, to adapt it into reality? What hooey!

 

[EarlyActs]

btw, last notice on multiple topics.

But I will send the link of the little book once it is ready. It's $8 at Amazon. BACK IN BUSINESS.

 

[EarlyActs]

btw, last notice on multiple topics.

But I will send the link of the little book once it is ready. It's $8 at Amazon. BACK IN BUSINESS.

I can’t put the link here per community rules. I’m trying to get it up at B&N so I can quit Amazon.

 

[ChristB4us]

repackaging
Nope. No evolution. All old earth and gap beliefs that I have heard are inserting evolution. I do not. Time itself does not mean evolution occurred--unless you are a traitor!

Can you explain how you can prevent Christian evolutionists from using the old earth and the age gap and your book for supporting their point of view when you cannot ascertain the amount of time that has elapsed before day one?