Biblical hijinks!

[Eleanor]

If “scripture is the only authority “ then there can be no authority to interpret the scripture and give authentic meaning!

Scripture interpreted in the light of and in agreement with all Scripture interprets itself.

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Scripture interpreted in the light of and in agreement with all Scripture interprets itself.

It can do some of that, but... eh...

You still need grammar and history. And maybe archaeology.

 

[Arial]

“A fat sandwich man”

Does that mean a fat man who makes sandwiches? Or a man who makes fat sandwiches?

"A fat sandwich man" means the man is fat.

If the sandwich is fat it would read "The man made fat sandwiches." If the person meant fat sandwiches but worded it as in the first example, he would get an error mark on his paper.

 

[donadams]

If “scripture interprets scripture”?

Then where does it say what are the
commandments referred to in Matt 28:20 and acts 1:2

What are the mysteries referred to in matt 13:11 and Lk 8:10 and 1 cor 4:1 and 1 cor 13:2 and 1 cor 14:2

 

[Arial]

If “scripture interprets scripture”?

Then where does it say what are the
commandments referred to in Matt 28:20 and acts 1:2

I think you don't know what interpret means. Matt 28:19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

Acts 1:1-3 In my former book, Theophilis, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach until the day He was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles He had chosen. After HIs suffering, He presented Himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that He was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.

So the commandments He refers to were all He taught during His earthly mission and to the apostles specifically in the forty days after His ascension. That scripture does not tell us what He taught them but we have what He taught them in Acts and the Epistles. As He commanded, they taught it to us.

 

[Eleanor]

It can do some of that, but... eh...

You still need grammar and history. And maybe archaeology.

I was thinking in terms of divine revelation of doctrine, which history and archaeology do not affect.

 

[Eleanor]

If “scripture interprets scripture”?
Then where does it say what are the
commandments referred to in Matt 28:20 and acts 1:2

They are contained in the NT writings.

What are the mysteries referred to in matt 13:11 and Lk 8:10 and 1 cor 4:1 and 1 cor 13:2 and 1 cor 14:2

Mystery means secret, never before revealed, it does not mean beyond understanding; e.g.,

the incarnation,
the death of Christ,
the kingdom of God is now here,
Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus,
God's purpose to bring all things together under one head, Christ,
the change that will take place in our bodies at the resurrection.

 

[Josheb]

If “scripture interprets scripture”?

Then where does it say what are the commandments referred to in Matt 28:20 and acts 1:2 What are the mysteries referred to in matt 13:11 and Lk 8:10 and 1 cor 4:1 and 1 cor 13:2 and 1 cor 14:2

The fact that the answer to those questions is not known is evidence of a problem to be solved and a woefully inadequate understanding of scripture that precludes a person from having any ability (or authority) to tell other what and how to believe. The great ironies is that post is scripture answers those questions! They shouldn't need to be asked by a person who has read the Bible!

 

[3 Resurrections]

I was thinking in terms of divine revelation of doctrine, which history and archaeology do not affect.

They don't affect it by changing those revelations, but God tells us to bring history and archaeology to mind when considering the scriptures. Otherwise, how can we obey the directives found in Psalms 46:8, Psalms 9:16, and Psalms 66:5?

"Come, behold the works of the Lord, what desolations he hath made in the earth."
"The Lord is known by the judgments which He executeth."
"Come and see the works of God; how awesome are His deeds toward mankind." God is telling us in scripture itself to pay attention to the archaeological ruins of civilizations, and evidences of Noah's flood, etc.

God boasts several times in Isaiah that there are none like Him who can predict events to come to pass exactly when they are predicted to occur, as in Isaiah 41:4,21-23, 44:7.

Why else would we be given regnal times of rulers in scripture if we are not to give consideration to history's record of potentates and magistrates? There is quite a lengthy list in Luke 3:1 describing various rulers who were in power at the time John came from the wilderness preaching and baptizing. That means we are to pay attention to the history books' references to these characters and exactly when they were in power. Their terms in office tie in with the fulfillment of prophecies regarding the Messiah, so they are worthy of research.

 

[Eleanor]

They don't affect it by changing those revelations, but God tells us to bring history and archaeology to mind when considering the scriptures. Otherwise, how can we obey the directives found in Psalms 46:8, Psalms 9:16, and Psalms 66:5?

I see no doctrine there that is not in the NT, which is my point.

 

[Arial]

What are the mysteries referred to in matt 13:11 and Lk 8:10 and 1 cor 4:1 and 1 cor 13:2 and 1 cor 14:2

Matt 13:11 And He answered them (the disciples) "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

If you didn't take one sentence out of an entire context you might be able to answer that question yourself. Read the whole chapter. What is Jesus teaching and why in parables? He actually tells His disciples why He speaks in parables in verses 10-15. And then He explains that particular parable. If you understand what He is saying you will know that particular mystery and why it was such a mystery to who? A crowd of Jews who were steeped in the OT law and considered the law the way to the kingdom.

1 Cor 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed no one understands them;they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

They are mysteries to the hearers because they don't know the language being spoken.



1 Cor 4:1 This, then, is how you ought to regard us; as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed.

Who is writing the letter? The apostle Paul. Who are the "us"? Those he spoke about into chapter 3 and referenced again in verses 6Now, brothers and sister, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

So the mysteries are the things that the apostles and church leaders of NT era were teaching and that have been preserved for all generations. They were mysteries in the OT because they were not fully revealed, but are being revealed by the apostles.
1 Cor 13:2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Paul is using hyperbole to stress a point.

 

[donadams]

James 2:10 is by far the most common verses that has presented to me alone out context.

In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while Paul denied that we become saved as the result of our works lest anyone should boast, doing good works is nevertheless intrinsically part of our salvation from not doing good works.


That's a tad bit biased. For example, when Jesus said that this is my body, it's not about context, but about whether we think that he was speaking literally or figuratively.


There are 10 Commandments (Exodus 34:28, Deuteronomy 4:13), though there are different ways that different groups have numbered them. "I am the Lord your God" is the 1st Commandment that parallels the same principle as the 6th Commandment.


Indeed, when Jesus said that, he was speaking about a concept of which his audience was aware. There has never been another person whose teachings were more thoroughly rooted in the OT.


Indeed.

The strawman is another

I know there are 10 commandments but why do fundamentalists insist on breaking up the first into the first two?

Thanks

 

[Soyeong]

The strawman is another

I know there are 10 commandments but why do fundamentalists insist on breaking up the first into the first two?

Thanks

Murdering someone expresses the sentiment that this person has no intrinsic value as an individual beyond what they can give me and that I would be better off if someone did not exist. This principle parallels the 1st Commandment "I am the Lord your God" because while we can't murder God, we can fail to recognize Him as an individual that we can know who has intrinsic value and act like we would be better off if He didn't exists. Likewise, the 2nd Commandment against idolatry is to our relationship with God what the 7th Commandment against adultery is to our relationship with our neighbor, so there is evidence for how the Ten Commandments should be numbered bases on their parallel structure.

 

[donadams]

If the scripture is its own authority then it needs no other authority to interpret the scripture in order to give it authentic meaning. When God says something He says what He means and He means what He says. People may arrive at many different interpretations but that does not mean that there are many. People are fallible. God and His word are not.

That is where context comes in. You are defeating your own purpose. Let's take an example from scripture. One you used in another forum to show that the Catholic priesthood was valid.
Luke 22:29 "and I assign to you, as my Father assigned to me, a kingdom"

That of course is the middle of a sentence. Here is the whole sentence which begins in verse 28 and ends in verse 30:
"You are those who have stayed with me in my trials, and I assign to you, as my Father assigned to me, a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

It says nothing about priests, but rather a kingdom. And Jesus was talking to the the disciples who had been with Him and stayed with Him through all His trials from the beginning. No one else.

Hijinked and hoodwinked.

Ok then scripture really is for you the only authority so it needs to communicate what is and what is not scripture, and where scripture interprets scripture or where it refers to a prior scripture like acts 2:38-39 refers to a prior scripture but does not say which one?

Those examples are about interpretation not context.

The priests administer the kingdom just as they did before

You don’t believe anyone in the new covenant is a priest?
Thanks

 

[Arial]

Ok then scripture really is for you the only authority so it needs to communicate what is and what is not scripture, and where scripture interprets scripture or where it refers to a prior scripture like acts 2:38-39 refers to a prior scripture but does not say which one?

Do you realize how full of oxymorons that sentence is? Everything in the scriptures is scripture, that is why it is called the scriptures. Acts 3:38-39 does not refer to a prior scripture. Many places do and a Bible that contains the cross references in its margin will show you exactly where to go. The NT is a further revealing of what was in the OT that was only shadowed and prophesied, and the scriptures the people of the apostles day had were the Law and the prophets (the OT). That is why it is so frequently quoted and referenced by Jesus and the apostles. To show the authenticity of what they taught and also the authenticity of the scriptures themselves. Consistent, unbroken. Peter's audience was primarily Jewish and would have been very familiar with the OT and exactly what he was saying.

Those examples are about interpretation not context.

It is context that aids in interpretation.

The priests administer the kingdom just as they did before

You don’t believe anyone in the new covenant is a priest?

Believers are called priests in that they all worship before the Lord and come into His presence through the one mediator. But there is distinction between priest in our relationship with God and the office of priest. The office of Priest was done away with when Jesus ascended to that position as the only mediator between a holy God and sinful man.

 

[donadams]

Scripture interpreted in the light of and in agreement with all Scripture interprets itself.

Really?
Show me where?

what are the
commandments referred to in Matt 28:20 and acts 1:2

What are the mysteries referred to in matt 13:11 and Lk 8:10 and 1 cor 4:1 and 1 cor 13:2 and 1 cor 14:2

Thanks

 

[donadams]

Only the one who wrote knows the meaning, and the church wrote the NT

 

[donadams]

Must not be too important!

How are Christians today “without apostles” supposed to obey these commands if we don’t know what they are?

Thanks

 

[donadams]

The fact that the answer to those questions is not known is evidence of a problem to be solved and a woefully inadequate understanding of scripture that precludes a person from having any ability (or authority) to tell other what and how to believe. The great ironies is that post is scripture answers those questions! They shouldn't need to be asked by a person who has read the Bible!

The apostles know, tradition
“As I received from the Lord I have made known to you”!

Fortunately we have apostles till Christ returns in glory!
Thanks

 

[donadams]

Then what should it be based on?
Cos there ain’t no list in scripture!

And no one is around who saw the list on the stones! And they are in the ark and it’s in heaven!

Fortunately the content is there!

Thanks

Ten Commandments

Ex 20

Scripture has no list (1, 2, 3, etc.) of the Ten Commandments

According to subject matter or context:

First commandment: ex 20:2-6
One God

Second commandment: ex 20:7
God’s name

Third commandment: ex 20:8-11
God’s sabbath

Fourth commandment: ex 20:12
Parents

Fifth commandment: ex 20:13
Murder

Sixth commandment: ex 20:14
Adultery

Seventh commandment: ex 20:15
Theft

Eighth commandment: ex 20:16
Lying

Ninth commandment: ex 20:17
Coveting

Separating the two about coveting makes Ten Commandments!