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Bible Problem

NetChaplain

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Which translation of the Bible do you use? Many are unaware that the manuscripts used for the modern translations are highly spurious, because of the numerous differences between them and the Traditional Text (TT). The manuscripts used for the TT (Majority Text, or Textus Receptus, or Received Text) are much latter (5 century and latter) than those used for the modern translations (MT). The MT manuscripts were not used for copying purposes like those of the TT, because they had too many errors and therefore were rejected and did not wear out. This is what allowed the modern text to gain much ascendancy in popularity, due to their antiquity (3-4th century). As there are many differences between the manuscripts use for the MT, due to omissions, transpositions and interpolations, the early church would not use them (Vaticanus, Sinaticus and Alexandrinus).

What we have today now is that there are so many differences in these modern translations that attempting to memorize Scripture is impossible; and you can’t use a concordance with them because of the above problems stated. This produces a much less significant text that many do not know which should be followed, and thus the usual response is not reading them very much.

In the Hebrew text there are no manuscripts that contain the phrase “the brother of” in 2Sam 21:19. But instead of adding this phrase to make it a truthful reading, the MT’s have omitted it as well, making it an errant reading. Thus, it should read “Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath.” But the MT has it “Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew Goliath,” making it an errant reading in conflict with 1Chron 20:5, which states that “Elhanan the son of Jair struck down Lahmi the brother of Goliath” (the NIV had this omission until correcting it recently).

In David Fuller’s book ”Which Bible,” he states that in the winter of 1928 there was a prominent publication company that had a newspaper come out saying “Who Killed Goliath.” He continues to say that “a cablegram came from the most learned and devout scholars of the Church of England” and they “said in substance, that the Revised Version was correct, that Elhanan and not David killed Goliath; and that there were many other things in the Bible which were the product of exaggeration, such as the story of Noah and the ark, Jonah and the whale, the garden of Eden and the longevity of Methuselah.”

The Three manuscripts mentioned above are pretty much the ones these detractors use for their translations (compared to thousands of manuscripts used for the TT). The Vaticanus was found on a shelf in the Vatican library, which was there unused for 1500 years; the Sinaticus was found at monastery, where a monk was using some of the parchments for kindling to get a fire started. Both of these codexes are the oldest manuscripts (3rd century), and this is why they are given too much attention.

A greater harm these MT’s produce is from their omitting Scripture. For one of hundreds of examples, they omitted the entire passage of 1Jn 5:7, which is the primary Trinity doctrine.

Hope this is enough to get others interested in this problem, and I have a great deal more omissions to share on this if you are interested, just let me know.

God bless and always guide us to truth!

NC
 
A greater harm these MT’s produce is from their omitting Scripture. For one of hundreds of examples, they omitted the entire passage of 1Jn 5:7, which is the primary Trinity doctrine.


I found a version like the NASB slightly better when it comes to the fact that the Lord Jesus is God.
 
I found a version like the NASB slightly better when it comes to the fact that the Lord Jesus is God.
Hi, and appreciate your reply! The NASB has the same text as the modern versions. There are two passages you can check to see if it's from the Minority Text. 2Sam 21:19 says Elahanan killed Goliath; and the main Trinity passage is not in the text at 1Jn 5:7. The translations that have these two errors have all the corrupt texts also, and are missing much of the New Testament. In my opinion it doesn't matter to many because they don't read much of the Word anyway.
 
1 Chronicles 20:5 (parallel passage to 2 Sam 21:19)

Geneva Bible (1599): And there was yet another battle with the Philistines: and Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff was like a weaver’s beam.

King James Version (1769): ... Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, ...

New King James Version (1982): ... Elhanan the son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, ...

Modern English Version (2014): ... Elhanan the son of Jair killed Lahmi, the brother of Goliath the Gittite, ...
And 2 Samuel 21:19 in my preferred translation, which is not based on TT:

New English Translation (2005): ... Elhanan the son of Jair the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath the Gittite, ...
Another favorite translation of 2 Samuel 21:19, also not based on TT:

New Living Translation (1996): ... Elhanan son of Jair from Bethlehem killed the brother of Goliath of Gath. ...​
 
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There are a few modern translations that have corrected the reading, but the majority of all modern translations contain the error; and they still contain all the omissions that the rest contain, like 1Jn 5:7!!
 
Which translation of the Bible do you use? Many are unaware that the manuscripts used for the modern translations are highly spurious, because of the numerous differences between them and the Traditional Text (TT). The manuscripts used for the TT (Majority Text, or Textus Receptus, or Received Text) are much latter (5 century and latter) than those used for the modern translations (MT). The MT manuscripts were not used for copying purposes like those of the TT, because they had too many errors and therefore were rejected and did not wear out. This is what allowed the modern text to gain much ascendancy in popularity, due to their antiquity (3-4th century). As there are many differences between the manuscripts use for the MT, due to omissions, transpositions and interpolations, the early church would not use them (Vaticanus, Sinaticus and Alexandrinus).

What we have today now is that there are so many differences in these modern translations that attempting to memorize Scripture is impossible; and you can’t use a concordance with them because of the above problems stated. This produces a much less significant text that many do not know which should be followed, and thus the usual response is not reading them very much.

In the Hebrew text there are no manuscripts that contain the phrase “the brother of” in 2Sam 21:19. But instead of adding this phrase to make it a truthful reading, the MT’s have omitted it as well, making it an errant reading. Thus, it should read “Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath.” But the MT has it “Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew Goliath,” making it an errant reading in conflict with 1Chron 20:5, which states that “Elhanan the son of Jair struck down Lahmi the brother of Goliath” (the NIV had this omission until correcting it recently).

In David Fuller’s book ”Which Bible,” he states that in the winter of 1928 there was a prominent publication company that had a newspaper come out saying “Who Killed Goliath.” He continues to say that “a cablegram came from the most learned and devout scholars of the Church of England” and they “said in substance, that the Revised Version was correct, that Elhanan and not David killed Goliath; and that there were many other things in the Bible which were the product of exaggeration, such as the story of Noah and the ark, Jonah and the whale, the garden of Eden and the longevity of Methuselah.”

The Three manuscripts mentioned above are pretty much the ones these detractors use for their translations (compared to thousands of manuscripts used for the TT). The Vaticanus was found on a shelf in the Vatican library, which was there unused for 1500 years; the Sinaticus was found at monastery, where a monk was using some of the parchments for kindling to get a fire started. Both of these codexes are the oldest manuscripts (3rd century), and this is why they are given too much attention.

A greater harm these MT’s produce is from their omitting Scripture. For one of hundreds of examples, they omitted the entire passage of 1Jn 5:7, which is the primary Trinity doctrine.

Hope this is enough to get others interested in this problem, and I have a great deal more omissions to share on this if you are interested, just let me know.

God bless and always guide us to truth!

NC
I use the NASB, ESV, YLT, and KJV.
But mainly between the NASB and ESV
 
I use the NASB, ESV, YLT, and KJV.
But mainly between the NASB and ESV
Just to let you know, that only the KJV and translations like it retain the entire Bible (like YLY). All the modern translations (except NKJV) omit hundreds of Scripture words, phrases and sometimes even entire passages (Mat 4:4).
 
Just to let you know, that only the KJV and translations like it retain the entire Bible (like YLY). All the modern translations (except NKJV) omit hundreds of Scripture words, phrases and sometimes even entire passages (Mat 4:4).
Just to let you know I am not of the KJO people. Are you aware the Textus Receptus is Erasmus's creation? Erasmus was a RC priest. But I really have no issue with the KJV, I just do not believe it is one of the most reliable translations.

And guess what, if I am wrong I won't burn in hell for it.
 
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1 Chron 20:5 adds to the discussion.

And there was again war with the Philistines, and Elhanan the son of Jair struck down Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.
 
Just to let you know I am not of the KJO cult. Are you aware the Textus Receptus is Erasmus's creation? Erasmus was a RC priest. But I really have no issue with the KJV, I just do not believe it is one of the most reliable translations.

And guess what, if I am wrong I won't burn in hell for it.
In those days everyone was an RC, there were no other main non-RC churches until the Protectant Reformation. Having the wrong translation doesn't effect your salvation, just your growth in Christ.
 
In those days everyone was an RC, there were no other main churches until the Protectant Reformation.
I agree, the only Christian church at one time was the Catholic church.
 
1 Chron 20:5 adds to the discussion.

And there was again war with the Philistines, and Elhanan the son of Jair struck down Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.
Yes, this is the reiteration of the initial account in 2Sam 21:19. This passage confirms that Elhanan did not kill Goliath.
 
One believer's "omission" from Scripture is another believer's "corruption" of Scripture. I regret that believers will probably never fully agree with each other on this. Fortunately, the gospel message of Christ's atoning death and resurrection is proclaimed in all.
 
One believer's "omission" from Scripture is another believer's "corruption" of Scripture. I regret that believers will probably never fully agree with each other on this. Fortunately, the gospel message of Christ's atoning death and resurrection is proclaimed in all.
It's too late for most to catch on to the seriousness of this problem; and the information of Textual Criticism, which contains a grave error will not interest most! Thanks for the reply, and God bless! Fortunately this issue does not effect our salvation, only our growth in Christ's image.
 
There were bibles before the KJV
Yes, and the KJV and others using the same manuscript source (Majority Text) are the only translations that retain the entire Word of God (Mat 4:4). Many will never know that much of these modern translations were produced by Gnostics, with the intent to discredit the Deity of Christ, and disrupt growth through disunity of Scripture. They had to have the right mixture of truth and error, like rat poison which has only 10% arsenic and the rest cornmeal.
 
I agree, the only Christian church at one time was the Catholic church.
I wouldn't call the RC a Christian church, though they claim to be. They have many anti-Christian doctrines that are well hid and misunderstood, like their doctrine concerning Immaculate Conception: "the conception of the Virgin Mary in which as decreed in Roman Catholic dogma her soul was preserved free from original sin by divine grace." -Merriam Webster. Of course this can only apply to the Lord Jesus! Thanks for your replies!
 
@NetChaplain and I think that's one of the disagreements. Well meaning Christians disagree with you that "modern translations were produced by Gnostics." And technically the KJV doesn't use the "Majority Text." Technically, the "Majority Text" isn't a thing. As I'm sure you know, the MT is not a manuscript, but a statistical construct from thousands of manuscripts, no two of which are identical, and most of which are of a later age and reflect the Byzantine text type.
 
1 Chronicles 20:5 (parallel passage to 2 Sam 21:19)
Geneva Bible (1599): And there was yet another battle with the Philistines: and Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff was like a weaver’s beam.​
King James Version (1769): ... Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, ...​
New King James Version (1982): ... Elhanan the son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, ...​
Modern English Version (2014): ... Elhanan the son of Jair killed Lahmi, the brother of Goliath the Gittite, ...​
And 2 Samuel 21:19 in my preferred translation, which is not based on TT:
New English Translation (2005): ... Elhanan the son of Jair the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath the Gittite, ...​
Another favorite translation of 2 Samuel 21:19, also not based on TT:
New Living Translation (1996): ... Elhanan son of Jair from Bethlehem killed the brother of Goliath of Gath. ...​
Thank you for presenting this. MEV, NET, NLT and NIV have all the omissions that the rest have.
 
I found a version like the NASB slightly better when it comes to the fact that the Lord Jesus is God.
Just to let you know that this version has all the omissions as the other modern translations; and the error that "Elhanan killed Goliath" in 2Sam 21:19.
 
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