Being a Christian In United States of America

[ChristB4us]

Babylon- - - - - the gate of the false gods, smoke of her burning ."The whole earth under the will of the father of lies .The god of this world called legion

No signs were given to wonder after .It's a evil generation that does look for signs .We have prophecy til the end of time sealed with 7 seals

Babylon USA has broaden the way in the worship place to include the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son whereby they worship the "blessed" trinity, thinking that is the way God the father wants to approach Him by in worship when it is not because of John 14:6. There is only one way to honor the father and that is by only honoring the Son which is the standard of judgment over every believer at the pre great tribulation rapture event per John 5:22-23.

John 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 5: 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Babylon USA is the leader in world's media & internet that helps spread the false teaching & the apostate movement of the "spirit" to the world.

This is why Jesus is warning believers in these latter days to narrow the way back to the straight gate, yea, even to strive to enter per Luke 13:24-30 because the church down through the history had broaden the way per that "ecumenical" nature of the Nicene creed of 381 A.D. as gathering grapes of thorns & figs of thistles per Matthew 7:15-16 where they had introduced the unbiblical practice of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son for how the false prophets had broaden the way in Matthew 7:13-14.

Luke 13:24-30 & Matthew 7:13-16 KJV

This is what happens when they lay the foundation to honor the Father by honoring the Trinity and even honoring the Holy Spirit in worship as if that is how the Father wants to be honored by when that is not the mind of Christ we are to have in worship per Philippians 2:5-11 KJV .

The Welsh Revival of 1904-1905 along with the Azua Street Revival of 1906-1909 preached a gospel of tongues by promoting the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of tongues as that was the glory of that movement that they had considered a revival but it was actually apostasy. From the Azusa Street Revival, because of different supernatural phenomenon that was happening in it, was why they were splitting up in different factions as we see the different phenomenon today stemming from seeking to receive the Holy Spirit by a sign like Pensacola Outpouring, Toronto's Blessings, holy laughter movement, slain in the spirit, being drunk in the spirit, another baptism with the Holy Ghost, and even Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade where he would announce the falling of the Holy Spirit on already saved believers that would cause them to fall back to get their miracles ( although in most cases, he push on their foreheads to motion them to fall back into "catcher's arms to lower them unto the floor ). They even reported having visions and by it prophesying new revelations.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

That is why Jesus denounce them in spite of prophesying in His name, casting out devils in His name, and doing wonderful works in His name for they were workers of iniquity preaching that gospel of the "holy Spirit" for signs & wonders when they were actually promoting the spirits of the antichrist as in "instead of Christ" in preaching Jesus Christ & Him crucified in coming to God the Father by which is by believing in Jesus.

In most of those movement of the spirit, even if they are just promoting a baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, as they sometime mislead believers into thinking that this is also required, and sometimes even teach they do not have the Holy Spirit yet until they do, believers will see someone lose self control and fall which is the warning given by Jesus for not heeding His words in Matthew 7:24-27.

Matthew 24:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

So any revival that does not point ONLY towards the gospel of Jesus Christ as the only door to enter to come to God the Father by, but ALSO to a movement of the spirit, are preaching the spirit of the antichrist as in "instead of Christ". Indeed, any church that does not narrow the way back to the straight gate in worship, will find themselves in that unrepentant iniquity for why many are at risk of being left behind.

As it is, most churches are suffering a thief to break through for not watching and so when they worship the Trinity or honor the Holy Spirit in worship, and that phenomenon comes, they will believe that was the holy Ghost regardless of the chaos & confusion it brings with its signs and "miracles", and lying wonders.

 

[Mr GLee]

There is only one way to honor the father and that is by only honoring the Son which is the standard of judgment over every believer at the pre great tribulation rapture event per John 5:22-23.

There is no mention of the USA in the Bible.

Satan is the god of the whole world. God works in the heart of mankind not location ..

Christian as residents of the city of Christ is the heavenly city prepare for his bride the church. There are true believers scattered throughout

We honor the Father the one with power not the Son of man no power

 

[Mr GLee]

Babylon is the leading economic power of trade in the world for why the merchants of the sea are weeping over her having fallen per Revelation 18th chapter, and this event occurs after the rapture event per the testimony of the living 144,000 honest virgin men that were redeemed ( raptured ) from the earth in Revelation 14:1-5.

Satan the father of lies is not of the USA he has no central office.

It would seem you are focusing on location and the not the god of this world .The lying spirit he works in the heart of mankind . No matter where you go there he is accusing

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Babylon . . .a she is simply the "strange woman" unbelieving mankind bringing false prophecy (oral traditions of dying mankind)

Proverbs 5:3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:

 

[ChristB4us]

There is no mention of the USA in the Bible.

The apostle John applied imageries as describing Babylon as the center of commerce in the world whereby its fallen state would cause the merchants of the sea to weep.

With Babylon fallen is why and how the New World Order for the mark of the beast would be applied for pooling the remaining world's resources for the rest of the 2/3rds parts of the world; hence the eastern hemisphere.

Revelation 18th Chapter KJV. At this link, you will find verses 3 and 9-19 describes its fallen state whereby the nations of the earth made rich by her will be able to stand afar apart from her because of the burning and the plagues within her due to the separation of the waters of the sea.

Satan is the god of the whole world. God works in the heart of mankind not location ..

Christian as residents of the city of Christ is the heavenly city prepare for his bride the church. There are true believers scattered throughout

How would you apply Revelation 18th Chapter in according to your belief then? I gave you scripture and the verses for why I had applied it in that manner by His wisdom & discernment and I cannot even see how you can apply Babylon to mean what you say it does.

We honor the Father the one with power not the Son of man no power

Then you do not know the scripture as well as you think for why you are referring to patented teachings that is not true.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.... 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus is the Word of God by Whom all things were created with the approval of the Father & the compliance of the Spirit behind Him.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made..... 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So how is that for power?

Indeed, Jesus was the God men had seen in the Old Testament that had appeared to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob & even Moses. Jesus said so.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life..... 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Jesus was the Lord that had appeared to Abraham that day in Genesis 18th Chapter KJV and He said so by His words below.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Did you know that the father is not the One that will judge us by this standard below by His Son?

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

So Jesus is the One we are to answer to.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

It is before the judgement seat of Christ that each and every believer shall answer to.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

So is your hope in the Lord Jesus Christ or is it on something else :instead of Christ"? If it is on something else, then that teaching is an antichrist.

 

[ChristB4us]

Satan the father of lies is not of the USA he has no central office.

If you applying what I have shared from scriptures to your teaching, that is not what I had shared nor was implying.

You stated that Satan is the prince of this world, and I agree BUT that is not what I was sharing as to what Babylon is in Revelation 18th chapter.

It would seem you are focusing on location and the not the god of this world .The lying spirit he works in the heart of mankind . No matter where you go there he is accusing

Again the apostle John described the rest of the world's relations to Babylon for how they are affect when Babylon USA is fallen.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Babylon . . .a she is simply the "strange woman" unbelieving mankind bringing false prophecy (oral traditions of dying mankind)

Proverbs 5:3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:

The origin of Babylon was known as "Let us make a name for ourselves.." before their fall by the Lord in confusing the people with different languages in spreading them out to fill the earth in defiance to God's commandment in Genesis 1:28.

Genesis 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
What they did was in defiance to His commandment below;
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

So it is not hard to see USA as that daughter of Babylon.

 

[Mr GLee]

You stated that Satan is the prince of this world, and I agree BUT that is not what I was sharing as to what Babylon is in Revelation 18th chapter.

I would offer. Satan is the lying king of lying wonders as the king of Babylon, the strange women, false prophets, false apostles sent with oral traditions of dying mankind. . . I heard it through the legion fathers grape vine .

 

[Mr GLee]

If you applying what I have shared from scriptures to your teaching, that is not what I had shared nor was implying.

Sorry for that misunderstanding.possibly seeing a connection to another portion of scripture . I do at times get carried away .

 

[ChristB4us]

Sorry for that misunderstanding.possibly seeing a connection to another portion of scripture . I do at times get carried away .

I understand.

Sometimes I glance at a post and see one point in need of addressing, or confirming or reproving or clarification, but sometimes I misunderstood the poster for how they were presenting it when I should have asked for clarification instead.

I believe the Bridegroom is coming at any moment for why I need His help not to rush to edify the body of believers for Him to get them ready as found abiding in His word and in truth as well as leaning on Him to be ready to go also..

 

[Josheb]

America is definitely not the Babylon of Revelation, on that we certainly agree. I also agree that Dispensationalism and RCism are to be avoided.

Amen.

I've been thinking about this matter and the consensus and divide existing between us, and I have concluded you are correct to cite RCCism as a problem and perhaps this is simply a matter of "calling." I will, therefore, endeavor to support your posts wherever I deem them appropriate while still focusing my attention on Dispensationalism as God leads.

 

[Mr GLee]

Amen.

I've been thinking about this matter and the consensus and divide existing between us, and I have concluded you are correct to cite RCCism as a problem and perhaps this is simply a matter of "calling." I will, therefore, endeavor to support your posts wherever I deem them appropriate while still focusing my attention on Dispensationalism as God leads.

I world think and offer Christ's work of faith as a labor of love is not subject to time periods

The Catholic law of the fathers (legion of gods) as oral traditions of dying mankind sought to destroy the law of God unseen. It by the father of lies was passed down from the unbelieving Jew to RCCism or to any denomination that venerate dying mankind above all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura). The faith of God. . as it is written. . . with the finger of God .

A good example. . I think aplies to the loving rebuke to the believers of the sect of the Nicolaitans who did put thier trust in leader Nicole. . . above that which is written (sola scriptura) and God called the believers back to thier first love, ears to hear, hearing the gospel as empowered to believe God not seen .Beware of them that say we need a man to teach us

Revelation 2:1-7King James Version Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; (beleive)or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God

 

[Josheb]

I world think and offer Christ's work of faith as a labor of love is not subject to time periods

The Catholic law of the fathers (legion of gods) as oral traditions of dying mankind sought to destroy the law of God unseen. It by the father of lies was passed down from the unbelieving Jew to RCCism or to any denomination that venerate dying mankind above all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura). The faith of God. . as it is written. . . with the finger of God .

A good example. . I think aplies to the loving rebuke to the believers of the sect of the Nicolaitans who did put thier trust in leader Nicole. . . above that which is written (sola scriptura) and God called the believers back to thier first love, ears to hear, hearing the gospel as empowered to believe God not seen .Beware of them that say we need a man to teach us

Revelation 2:1-7King James Version Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; (beleive)or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God

I'll let @David1701 answer and address this because he'll handle that adeptly and profusely as his inclination inclines. For my part, and perhaps I should have included this in Post #69, I find there are many devout, earnest, and truly converted believers in the resurrected Jesus in both RCCism and Dispensationalism. While a comparison with both institutions with Nicolaitanism may be valid, I think there will be limits to the comparison because no one in the Nicos were saved. I know many within both institutions who dissociatively self-subscribe to the institution of RCCism or Dispensationalism but do not identify with the doctrines of those institutions. For example, both RCCism and Dispensationalism teach a different Jesus. Since salvation is necessarily believing in the correct Jesus, it is possible for an RC or a Dispy (or JW, LDS, Nicolaitan) to believe in a wrong Jesus and not be saved. I've laid out that argument as it applies to Dispensationalism multiple times and some within Dispensationalism have proudly said, "Yes! I agree! That is what everyone should believe!" while others - despite openly identifying as Dispensationalist - have said, "Oh, well, that's not what I believe. I believe................." and then then articulate an orthodox Christology and soteriology. I suspect, with less frequency, David may have had the same experience.

My closest friend is RC. His allegiance to the RCC escapes me (not really, because I understand his reasons) because, through the course of many personal and theological conversations over the last 35+ years, I know he knows his Bible, believes in Jesus as articulated in the Bible and actually practices those beliefs in daily life. I have every confidence in the efficacy of his conversion from death to life, the witness of his life therein, and the promises of God thereof.

I suspect God Himself may well ask him, "Why????" in the end .

I have been privileged to meet, and to greater and lesser degrees befriend, leading Dispensationalists over the last 40+ years. I've discussed my concerns with the well-known and the little-known - Leading theologians, seminary professors, local pastors, and everyday congregants, in person and online in emails and forums around the world (but mostly in the US). I know what the teachers teach is often not what the congregant believes (even if they admire the teacher).

I have a feeling some, if not many, of them will not be asked, "Why?" by God but told, "I never knew you. Depart from me."



And I am confident David has had that experience much more frequently and much more egregiously because RCism is indoctrinating by design.

 

[David1701]

Amen.

I've been thinking about this matter and the consensus and divide existing between us, and I have concluded you are correct to cite RCCism as a problem and perhaps this is simply a matter of "calling." I will, therefore, endeavor to support your posts wherever I deem them appropriate while still focusing my attention on Dispensationalism as God leads.

Even if you had not come to this conclusion, I would still have been pleased that you took the trouble to think about it.

We have quite different approaches, and that could well be to do with different vocations (including different experiences, job roles, focus, etc.); however, the body of Christ needs all the callings and we all supply something that others lack.

I think that there is often a tendency to think (sometimes subconsciously) that all Christians should have the same priorities and ways of thinking that we do (I've seen this be particularly pronounced in evangelists), but Paul makes it very clear that there are many different callings, with greatly differing emphases, so I'm glad that you brought this up.

 

[Mr GLee]

While a comparison with both institutions with Nicolaitanism may be valid, I think there will be limits to the comparison because no one in the Nicos were saved.

God does not call the unrighteous faithless to repent

Those who heard the work of Christ calling them back to fellowship repented and di the first works of God working in them believed God. Not Niciole.

The unbelievers that continued to put thier trust in dying mankind.. . did not repent

 

[Mr GLee]

My closest friend is RC. His allegiance to the RCC escapes me (not really, because I understand his reasons) because, through the course of many personal and theological conversations over the last 35+ years, I know he knows his Bible, believes in Jesus as articulated in the Bible and actually practices those beliefs in daily life. I have every confidence in the efficacy of his conversion from death to life, the witness of his life therein, and the promises of God thereof.

I would offer we should be careful how we hear or say we hear sola scriptura(the Bible) .The father of lies knows the Bible.

I would be interested in understanding reasons why the living commune with the dead called "patron saints" (3,500 and rising)?

And not the one manner prescribed (our Father in heaven hallowed be his name alone) Why hallow or venerate the dead?

Matthew 6:9 After this (one ) manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Do you think communing with the dead could do despite to the fullness of Grace, the full price of salvation.?

Remember Catholics as that which was passed down from the faithless Jew .The oral traditions of dying mankind are taught they receive a unknown remnant of grace and must continue to suffer after they take their last breath with no end in sight

Born again believers receive the end of thier new born agin faith the salvation of there new souls from the beginning. (1 Peter 1:11) . The hearing of the gospel the living word of God. No need to imagine suffering wondering, sufferings wondering with no end in sight

Unlike the queen of heaven named after our blessed sister in the Lord. Mary.They preach she alone received the full price. and say she visits limbo or purgatory (same thing)comforting those sufferings working toward grace to include comforting the Protestant's

Saying she which they call the Queen Mother has dominion over the souls in limbo-purgatory

 

[Josheb]

God does not call the unrighteous faithless to repent. Those who heard the work of Christ calling them back to fellowship repented and di the first works of God working in them believed God. Not Niciole. The unbelievers that continued to put thier trust in dying mankind.. . did not repent

Hmmm....

We were talking about the RCC, Dispensationalism, RCs and Dispies. We were not talking about "the unrighteous faithless". Furthermore, I am not certain the claim God does not call the unrighteous unfaithful to repent is correct.

Acts 17:30-31
"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."

"All people everywhere" would seem to imply and include the unrighteous faithless. Paul was, after all, speaking to a group of Greek Gentiles who had not been converted to Christ. He was not speaking to or about Jews or Christians. If the Nicolaitans were somehow related to the proselyte Nicolas (Acts 6), then they were, alternatively, misguided "Christians." and not "unrighteous faithless." According to Revelation 2, at least some among the Nicos were Christians (see the letter to Pergamum).

I would offer we should be careful how we hear or say we hear sola scriptura(the Bible) .The father of lies knows the Bible. I would be interested in understanding reasons why the living commune with the dead called "patron saints" (3,500 and rising)? And not the one manner prescribed (our Father in heaven hallowed be his name alone) Why hallow or venerate the dead?

Matthew 6:9 After this (one ) manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Do you think communing with the dead could do despite to the fullness of Grace, the full price of salvation.?

Remember Catholics as that which was passed down from the faithless Jew .The oral traditions of dying mankind are taught they receive a unknown remnant of grace and must continue to suffer after they take their last breath with no end in sight. Born again believers receive the end of thier new born agin faith the salvation of there new souls from the beginning. (1 Peter 1:11) . The hearing of the gospel the living word of God. No need to imagine suffering wondering, sufferings wondering with no end in sight. Unlike the queen of heaven named after our blessed sister in the Lord. Mary.They preach she alone received the full price. and say she visits limbo or purgatory (same thing)comforting those sufferings working toward grace to include comforting the Protestant's. Saying she which they call the Queen Mother has dominion over the souls in limbo-purgatory.

Relevance to the op?

Do these observations pose difficulty for being a Christian in the USA? Do these concerns somehow evidence (or prove) the US is the Babylon of Revelation 18? Understand this particular op does not occur in the eschatology board but it is intended to be eschatological. It is, therefore, bait. LOOK for yourself. This op assumes something not in evidence, not yet proven and the only reason it does so is specifically because of the author's personal end times views. Notice also he has been asked about this and refused to both evidence the unjustified premise AND entertain any alternative view.

He's a modern futurist. He's theologically Dispensational. That is why I have posted what I posted. It is directly related to the content of the opening post. RCCism is tangentially relevant because, comparatively speaking, it exists and another example of a Christian religious institution that teaches bad doctrine within Christendom (although our brother @David1701 may disagree as to their membership in Christ ). The op, nor the thread, nor the recent brief digression between David and I is the subject of this op being discussed.

So....., I trust you'll understand if I don't reply further to Post 74. Big hug, otherwise .

 

[David1701]

I world think and offer Christ's work of faith as a labor of love is not subject to time periods

The way of salvation has always been the same: by grace, through faith in the Messiah (to come, or having come, depending upon the time period in question) and his sacrificial death on the cross. The first mention was in Genesis 3:15, although with minimal detail.

The Catholic law of the fathers (legion of gods) as oral traditions of dying mankind sought to destroy the law of God unseen. It by the father of lies was passed down from the unbelieving Jew to RCCism or to any denomination that venerate dying mankind above all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura). The faith of God. . as it is written. . . with the finger of God .

Traditions of men that are contrary to the Bible (or that claim extra-biblical revelation) are always to be avoided; however, I would not call ECFs "legions of gods". They were pastors and teachers, with fallible views, just as today's pastors and teachers have fallible views. They were all over the place on doctrine, but the RC organisation cherry picks the ones that suit its purposes.

A good example. . I think aplies to the loving rebuke to the believers of the sect of the Nicolaitans who did put thier trust in leader Nicole. . . above that which is written (sola scriptura) and God called the believers back to thier first love, ears to hear, hearing the gospel as empowered to believe God not seen .Beware of them that say we need a man to teach us

We have the Holy Spirit to teach us; however, we must not throw the baby out with the bath water. God has set preachers and teachers in the body of Christ, and he often uses them to instruct others.

I've never seen anyone say that the leader was "Nicole" (a female name). I've seen that someone named "Nicolas" (or Nikolaos - Greek version) was the probable leader, either Nicolas the Deacon, or some unknown Nicolas.

Revelation 2:1-7King James Version Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; (beleive)or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God

The Nicolaitans: not much is known for certain about them; but, false teaching, ungodly behaviour and the clergy-laity distinction are three hallmarks, with the clergy ruling over the laity.

 

[Mr GLee]

Traditions of men that are contrary to the Bible (or that claim extra-biblical revelation) are always to be avoided; however, I would not call ECFs "legions of gods". They were pastors and teachers, with fallible views, just as today's pastors and teachers have fallible views. They were all over the place on doctrine, but the RC organisation cherry picks the ones that suit its purposes.

Their claim is that they are fallible as to their extra-biblical teaching. (CCC) To show it they elected to have a Pope which the bible defines as a daysman. A fleshly infallible interpreter that umpires between God not seen and mankind seen with the approval of both.

I was not calling those alive a legion of gods but those they seek after. Patron saints. It is not Biblical idea but does oppose. the gospel

They must call dying mankind call patron saints (3500 official) and are still being added to and picking up new recruits to seek after as workers with familiar spirits. It is clearly an abomination of desolation making sola scriptura (God's living word) without effect.

I was referring to their source of faith (belief) a legion of fathers called apostolical succession. There is no succession of dying mankind passed on to the next generation.

All things written in the law and its testimony the prophets are the one source of Christain faith passed from one generation to the next. Sola scriptura which the EFC's call heresy is the reforming authority in any time period.

We have the Holy Spirit to teach us; however, we must not throw the baby out with the bath water. God has set preachers and teachers in the body of Christ, and he often uses them to instruct others.

I've never seen anyone say that the leader was "Nicole" (a female name). I've seen that someone named "Nicolas" (or Nikolaos - Greek version) was the probable leader, either Nicolas the Deacon, or some unknown Nicola

I would agree but they do but they do throw out all things written in the law and the prophets the (water of the word) calling it heresy so that they can continue in accord with what they call sacred tradition of dying mankind.

Therefore, making a false claim listing the oral traditions apostolical succession calling the tradition of dying mankind sacred first. Saying both are of divine origin. as if we could serve two good teaching master coming from one Lord. I would have thought Sacred scripture God's living word would be the first mentioned.

The Catholic Bible. Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph # 80 80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal."

Nicole or as you mentioned as Nicolas was the place of a Pope or a daysman which God declared he hated and lovingly commanded the believers mixed with unbelievers to repent and do the first work. God empowering us to believe God not seen according to sola scriptura and not the oral tradition of Nicolas or any denomination. that looks to the temporal thing seen and not the eternal things of God not seen revealed in the book of prophecy the Bible.

 

[Mr GLee]

We were talking about the RCC, Dispensationalism, RCs and Dispies. We were not talking about "the unrighteous faithless". Furthermore, I am not certain the claim God does not call the unrighteous unfaithful to repent is correct.

Acts 17:30-31
"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."

"All people everywhere" would seem to imply and include the unrighteous faithless. Paul was, after all, speaking to a group of Greek Gentiles who had not been converted to Christ. He was not speaking to or about Jews or Christians. If the Nicolaitans were somehow related to the proselyte Nicolas (Acts 6), then they were, alternatively, misguided "Christians." and not "unrighteous faithless." According to Revelation 2, at least some among the Nicos were Christians (see the letter to Pergamum).

I thought we were talking about the unrighteous faithless as doctrines of dying mankind.

God does call the unrighteous to salvation. He Lovingly commands us repent and believe God not seen. Greek or Jewish gentiles (natural unconverted mankind) all the nations of the world

A Jew is not one outwardly according to what the eyes the see temporal, but is one inwardly born of the Spirit of Christ. If any man has not that Holy Spirit of Christ, then they simply do not belong to God as born again.

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the (dying ) flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; (not seen) and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter;(death) whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The same can be applied to the word Christain the new name the Holy Father named to bride. . just as promised in Isaiah 62.

And yes, the born again Christain's did repent at the hearing of the gospel. . . no telling if Nicolas ever repented.

 

[ChristB4us]

America will be gone after the pre great tribulation rapture event when Babylon & a third of the earth gets burned up which is the western hemisphere.

The obvious elephant in the room is the absence of any reference to a great nation to the west of being one of the many armies marching against Jerusalem, let alone defending Jerusalem, because it is no longer there for the duration of the great tribulation.

 

[Josheb]

And yes, the born again Christain's did repent at the hearing of the gospel. . . no telling if Nicolas ever repented.

Glad to read that. I've been reflecting on the matter since the last exchange and am now more firmly decided on the matter. To my surprise I found very few mentions of repentance in the epistolary, but when considered in the light of all that the epistolary has to say about confession, forgiveness, change (repentance), and reconciliation as applied to the followers of Christ any dissent is unfounded.

1 Peter 4:17
For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

"It is time." That's a curious statement because although I believe the Church existed in OT times, and the "house of God" goes all the way back at least to Genesis 28:17, if we consider the "household of God" to be exclusively related to Hebrews 10:21 then it did not take very long for judgment to follow the incarnation, Calvary, and Pentecost. Yikes!

Blessedly, we also have...

Romans 14:4
Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

We will stand.