An Angel v An Angel of The Lord

[Soldier of Christ1516]

I've heard this dichotomy for ages. In devotional reading of Matthew 2:13 reminded me of it, "an angel of the Lord appeared" to Joseph after the baby Jesus was born. I consider these equivalent expressions: "an angel" or "an angel of the Lord", in the same way we might refer to someone by their last name.

• Tyson
• Mike Tyson
• Mr. Tyson

True, in our increasingly casual society, we are less formal, rarely referring to men as mister but that does not mean we are referring to a different kind of man. What are your thoughts on this topic? Do you hold a different meaning between "angel" and "angel of the Lord?"

 

[Alive]

No. As far as we know through scripture angels are a species so to speak of creatures. Creatures who are given various jobs and who have an hierarchical structure.
Essentially messengers, but also creatures capable of soldiering. In your comparison, I see no reason to imagine anything other than one of them being differentiated from a fallen angel.

 

[CrowCross]

I've heard this dichotomy for ages. In devotional reading of Matthew 2:13 reminded me of it, "an angel of the Lord appeared" to Joseph after the baby Jesus was born. I consider these equivalent expressions: "an angel" or "an angel of the Lord", in the same way we might refer to someone by their last name.

• Tyson
• Mike Tyson
• Mr. Tyson

True, in our increasingly casual society, we are less formal, rarely referring to men as mister but that does not mean we are referring to a different kind of man. What are your thoughts on this topic? Do you hold a different meaning between "angel" and "angel of the Lord?"

Does angel always mean a being or does it also mean messenger?

 

[Tambora]

Does angel always mean a being or does it also mean messenger?

It refers to a ministering spirit being that delivers a message or does a task.

There are a couple of verses that have the word "angel", but they speak of a human person who is "as an angel" but not an actual angel (ministering spirit being).
Such as:

2 Samuel 19:27 KJV​

And he hath slandered thy servant unto my lord the king; but my lord the king is as an angel of God: do therefore what is good in thine eyes.​

 

[CrowCross]

It refers to a ministering spirit being that delivers a message or does a task.

That's a pretty broad scope.

 

[Tambora]

That's a pretty broad scope.

Yeah, scripture has angels doing all sorts of things.

 

[Fred]

The Messenger/Angel of the Lord is YHWH in that He is the proper recipient of prayer (Genesis 48:16).

 

[Runningman]

The Messenger/Angel of the Lord is YHWH in that He is the proper recipient of prayer (Genesis 48:16).

Not according to Scripture. Read Zechariah 1 where the AOTL delivers messages for the LORD and the angel and the LORD are speaking to one another. Not the same person so the angel isn't God. If you're praying to an angel you're committing idolatry.

12Then the angel of the LORD answered and said, O LORD of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years? 13And the LORD answered the angel that talked with me with good words and comfortable words. 14So the angel that communed with me said unto me, Cry thou, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy. 15And I am very sore displeased with the heathen that are at ease: for I was but a little displeased, and they helped forward the affliction. 16Therefore thus saith the LORD; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the LORD of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem. 17Cry yet, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem.

 

[Fred]

Not according to Scripture. Read Zechariah 1 where the AOTL delivers messages for the LORD and the angel and the LORD are speaking to one another. Not the same person so the angel isn't God.

I never asserted they are the same Person. Get a clue.

Total dodge of Genesis 48:16.

Try again.


The Hebrew word for "Messenger" in Genesis 48:16 is mal'ak.

It could refer to:
a. created supernal beings
Psalm 148:2
Praise Him, all His angels;
Praise Him, all His hosts!

b. people
Joshua 6:17
The city shall be under the ban, it and all that is in it belongs to the LORD; only Rahab the harlot and all who are with her in the house shall live, because she hid the messengers whom we sent.

c. And based on what He is prayed to in order to perform it can refer to another Person of God.
Genesis 48:16
may the Messenger, who has rescued me from all evil, bless these boys. May they be called by my name and by the names of my grandfather Abraham and my father Isaac. May they have many children on the earth.” (GOD'S WORD Translation)

 

[Runningman]

I never asserted they are the same Person. Get a clue.

Total dodge of Genesis 48:16.

Try again.

So you're openly promoting praying to angels? That's pretty bad.

 

[Fred]

So you're openly promoting praying to angels? That's pretty bad.

So you are openly promoting Jacob committed idolatry in Genesis 48:16?
That's atrocious.

 

[Runningman]

So you are saying Jacob committed idolatry in Genesis 48:16.
That's atrocious.

A prayer didn't happen there. Read the surrounding verses please. No idolatry was committed.

 

[Fred]

A prayer didn't happen there.

It is a prayer. See below.

Read the surrounding verses please.

Sure.
Genesis 48:15 is also part of the prayer.

No idolatry was committed.

I know, because Jacob knew the Messenger of YHWH is YHWH, so he (Jacob) prayed to Him.



The Messenger is the proper recipient of prayer in Genesis 48:16.
1. Jacob credited the Messenger for redeeming him from all evil.
2. Jacob asked the Messenger to bless Joseph's children.
3. Jacob asked the Messenger to cause his descendants to grow into a multitude.

 

[Runningman]

It is a prayer. See below.




Genesis 48:15 is a prayer.




I know, because Jacob knew the Messenger of YHWH is YHWH, so he (Jacob) prayed to Him.

No prayer in Genesis 48:15. The passage is about Israel blessing Joseph, putting his hands on the heads of Ephraim and Manasseh, and saying some words. That's it.

 

[Fred]

No prayer in Genesis 48:15. The passage is about Israel blessing Joseph, putting his hand on his head, and saying some words. That's it.

A blessing here is a prayer.

Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words: the OT does not portray a blessing as magical, but as a prayer offered to a sovereign God. (Bless, page 67)


2 Chronicles 30:27
Then the Levitical priests arose and blessed the people; and their voice was heard and their prayer came to His holy dwelling place, to heaven.

Thanks for making this easy for me.

 

[Runningman]

A blessing here is a prayer.

Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words: the OT does not portray a blessing as magical, but as a prayer offered to a sovereign God. (Bless, page 67)


2 Chronicles 30:27
Then the Levitical priests arose and blessed the people; and their voice was heard and their prayer came to His holy dwelling place, to heaven.

Thanks for making this easy for me.

There is nothing about a prayer in Genesis 48:15 in the context of what Israel is doing. The verse you quoted above is not related to what we are talking about nor does it equate a blessing to the prayer. Don't derail this thread. You were wrong. Just take the hit and move on.

 

[Fred]

The passage is about Israel blessing Joseph, putting his hands on the heads of Ephraim and Manasseh, and saying some words. That's it.

Yeah, he just said "some words". No biggie, right?

Pitiful.

 

[Fred]

There is nothing about a prayer in Genesis 48:15 in the context of what Israel is doing.

Already refuted in post 15.

Next ridiculous assertion of yours is.....

 

[Fred]

Don't derail this thread.

Don't tell me what to do. If you don't like it, then you can lump it.

 

[Runningman]

Yeah, he just said "some words". No biggie, right?

Pitiful.

Already refuted in post 15.

Next ridiculous assertion of yours is.....

So let me get this straight. You believe all you need to do is put your hands on someone's head and bless someone, you don't even need to address God, just start talking and that means it's a prayer? Because that's what happened in Genesis 48:15.