Biblical Signs of the End Days.

[Arial]

Hebrews 9 is talking about Jesus on the cross.

Hebrews 9:11-24 is talking about redemption through the blood of Christ. It states quite clearly who Jesus is and what he did and his position as mediator of the new covenant which actually removes sin instead of just covering it over for a time. It states why he had to do what he did, why he had to be a priest of a different sort that the Aaronic priest.

You completely ignored Heb 8:1-5 which I also gave as support for Christ's present rule from heaven.


Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man. 3For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices; thus it is necessary for this priest also to have something to offer. 4Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest at all, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the law. 5They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things. For when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, “See that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain.”

Christ is reigning as King in heaven.

If you read Hebrews, it tells you that that is the way to understand it. It isn't prophecy. Consider the part in Hebrews that speaks of the blood being placed on the mercy seat in heaven. If you are going to take that literally, then you can join those who believe that angels/people were sitting at the foot of Jesus cross, catching his blood in vials/bowls (whatever they believe) so it can be taken to heaven to be literally sprinkled on a mercy seat. And yes, there are people who believe that. They also believe in the Holy Grail. The believe that it is Jesus blood LITERALLY that saves us.

If you are going to keep arguing from logical fallacies instead of dealing directly with the content you quote from, there is no point in continuing. I have marked the fallacies in red. Everything in that quote is either a red herring or a straw man. Both are diversionary tactics.

Jewish sacrificial system shadow, Jesus death and atonement reality. The Jewish sacrificial system saved no one.

I am aware of that, but the sacrificial system was not the subject. The subject is Christ reigning now as King from heaven. And Heb11:22-24 says

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

It is contrasting the two Jerusalem's---the two Mt. Zions---the old and the new, not the sacrificial system.

• Jerusalem below--shadow
• Jerusalem above--reality

And here it is misstated.

That is what I said. You are the one who misstated it. Your question was misstated.

There is a Mosaic restriction on kings being priests, which is how we know that this has to be Jesus. As part of the line of Melchizedek, He faces no restriction.

Melchizedek had no lineage. Scripture states he was a type of Melchizedek---meaning that neither Melchizedek were of the tribe of Levi. Melchizedek was a king and priest in a time before the Mosaic restriction. Jesus was born under it. Jesus therefore is a different type of king and priest from the Aaronic kings and priests. He is more. He does more. He is the real King and Priest who conquers sin and death for his people.

 

[Josheb]

Speculation is not a sign of the end times.

Just saying.

 

[Arial]

No, it just reflects Christ's kingship. A kingdom is the reflection of the ruler. Hence Earth is a hellish reflection of the Satanic realm. Full of sin. Full of death. It reflects it's ruler. Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father right? That is not the position of a King. It is a position of power, but the position of King is held by the Father in this setup. So sin is a contradiction to this being Christ's Kingdom, and not Satan's kingdom, and a reflection of the world system that God tells us not to be a part of, and to hate.

Your claim collapses under its own non-Trinitarian assumption. Scripture teaches one throne shared by the Father and the Son (Rev22:1). The Father reigns through the Son, not instead of it. Christ's kingdom is real now but not yet consummated.

Having responded to the whole quote, I will now break it down into its parts and show where there are invalid arguments and contradictions within itself.

it just reflects Christ's kingship. A kingdom is the reflection of the ruler.

That is a false premise of what a kingdom must look like. Scripture consistently presents Gods kingship coexisting with ongoing rebellion. He has always been King as creator over his creation. (Ps 110:1). The Messiah reigns while enemies still exist. (1 Cor 15:25-26) “For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.”
A kingdom does not have to look perfect in order to be a true kingdom.

You present a contadiction when you say this in the very same paragraph.

the position of King is held by the Father in this setup.

You: the kingdom reflects it's king, there for Jesus is not King. The Father is King.

A kingdom is the reflection of the ruler

Assumes that then everything in his realm must reflect him. Christ's sovereign reign is objective and real however the realm of fallen creation remains in rebellion. You confuse "rule" with "realm". Jesus himsle;f affirms tis in the parable of the weeds in Matt 13. Sin is inside the kingdom now and it will be removed later.

Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father right? That is not the position of a King

This is biblically false. In ancient Near Eastern and biblical theology

• Sitting at the right hand is a royal enthronement formula
• Psalm 110:1 is the most-cited OT verse in the NT and is explicitly messianic and royal
• Daniel 7:13–14 (ESV)
  
  

  “To him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom…”

Jesus applies this directly to himself (Matt 26:64).Peter explicitly says Christ is enthroned on David's throne now (Acts 2:30-36).

So sin is a contradiction to this being Christ's Kingdom, and not Satan's kingdom, and a reflection of the world system that God tells us not to be a part of, and to hate.

Again, this confuses reign and realm. It presumes that everything in a kingdom must reflect the king when it never did so even with the earthly kings in Israel or anywhere else. The Bible consistently depicts God/Christ's kingship coexisting with ongoing rebellion. It is that rebellion that Jesus is dealing with from heaven (see the book of Revelation).

Satan has limited authority (John 12:31). Christ has supreme authority Matt 28:18 “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me”

Satan rules as a usurper not as rightful king. Col 1:13
“He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son.”

The two kingdoms exist simultaneously, but only one is legit.

 

[Arial]

When did I say it had to be political. I mean, as a theocracy, sure, political.

Right. So, you did say it.

. The disciples asked a question of Christ in matthew 24. What will be the sign of your coming? Understand, they didn't know Jesus was leaving. Not a clue.

If they didn't know he was leaving, why would they ask about his coming? He was standing right there in front of them. So wrong start (premise).

Hence the final question, the signs of the complete end/consummation. (In the Greek, the term used basically means the end of everything. So past Jesus setting up His Kingdom, to the consummation of all. The closing out of this creation, and all of it passing away. That word for coming, the term in the Greek, is used to speak of king's making a royal visit. So what they were asking was, when will you be fully revealed as Messiah, and come in as King? What will the signs be?

And? How does that make the kingdom a visible political entity?

God promised Abraham, PROMISED and sealed in a covenant he made with Abraham that his people would inherit all the land of Canaan. Did God forget?

His descendants did inherit it. Is that the kingdom of God, the kingdom of Christ? Scripture also tells us who true Israel is. Who are truly Abraham's descendants. Romans 9:6-8
6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.”

Gal 3:29 further clarifies. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

The NT interprets the OT. Those things that had not yet been fully revealed in the OT. Now, do the Gentile believers inherit the land of Caanan? What do they inherit? The kingdom of God. Just like Jewish believers.

Consider that Israel has already been brought back from the dead. No one expected it. People were shocked. Those who were against it were writing that it would never happen, right up to the very day it did. A regathering... to judgment. There will be one more ingathering, but that will be before the millennial kingdom, and that will be for redemption/reconciliation between God and His people. (

Consider that confirmation bias and a very shaky one at that. Every bit of it is presumptive and a very poor handling of God's word. But I am not inclined to post paragraphs so long each paragraph needs to be handled in two or three postings, so decline to go about the process of correcting all the presumptions and contradictions with scripture.

 

[Arial]

I forgot the most important question of all. The disciples asked Jesus "Will you now restore the Kingdom to Israel". Jesus didn't say no. He didn't say that it isn't going to happen. He didn't even say wrong question. He just said it isn't for them to know when. So Jesus answered their question DIRECTLY. They asked if it will be NOW, He answered and said it wasn't for them to know when. to know when about what? Jesus returning the Kingdom to Israel. Something Jesus says the Father Himself has established by His power. So when will Jesus be able to go to the disiples and answer "Yes"?

Do you think maybe by that time he was a bit exasperated with them. He spent all those years with them, teaching them about the kingdom, then spent forty days likely revealing those things we find in the epistles since they for sure would not understand it prior to his resurrection. And here they were---still not getting it.

 

[Arial]

Spiritualizing is arbitrary. There is no way it cannot be. Unless there is a specific reason given to believe that, say, apocalyptic writing has not encased a LITERAL prophecy in imagery/figures/speech, see what is going on?

Only according to your definition of spiritualizing, whatever that is,, would be great if you would give a definition, since I told you exactly the basis on which the symbolic images are interpreted. The source is always the Bible's use of them within itself. Patterns are observed, culturural aspects are considered etc. That is the opposite of arbitrary. Maybe you need to give your definition of arbitrary also.

Spiritualizing in that aspect is not saying that the symbols are not depicting literal events or truths. It is saying the symbols are expressing something that is invisible to us and are being represented through things we can understand. If you read Revelation more carefully you will find the judgments are repeating the same events from different perspective, all ending in the appearance of Christ and the judgement.

 

[Arial]

The fulfillment WAS another human king. Jesus came in the flesh. THAT is what makes it literal. See, you are spiritualizing it away already.

Jesus isn't just king of Israel. He is King of kings, and Lord of lords. It was Israel that was mistaken and you who are carrying on their same mistake.