Will the Jews build a Third Temple?

[Hobie]

I am going to speak plainly to you.

You need to pay attention.

I'd put that in larger letters but that's as big as the forum permits. I have explained ALL these things to you and done so many times before. It is incomprehensible that you or anyone else would think what you just said if they'd read what I and others of similar mind have posted. Nearly ALL Christians look for a future return of Christ. The only ones that do not do so are the full-preterists and the modern futurists like to put (wrongly) anyone with the slightest preterist sensibilities into the same group with the full-preterists.

We ALL look forward to a future return of Christ.

We do not all look forward to a future return of Christ the way modern futurists do. In point of fact, MOST Christians do not subscribe to the eschatological views that originated in the 19th century (like Christadelphianism). It is not a future return of Christ that is the problem. The problem is the modern perversions of that futurism that are the problem.

That "impression" reeks of idiocy.

I have outlined for you and every other reader in this forum (and many others) the history of Christian eschatology, beginning with scripture, sampling the ECFs, chronically the formalization of each view, occasionally addressing specific points in Christian history (like the Great Schism or the Reformation), addressed the matter of de Alcazar and Papal vitriol, and most importantly explained in great detail the new and completely different apocalyptic views of the 19th century's Restoration Movement sects. I have also surveyed scripture, from beginning to end, AND especially with YOU, to show very real and legitimate problems in ALL premillennial views (like the biased inferential readings, the ignoring of explicit report, the silence of scripture in comparison to the additions of men, and the unassailable fact Revelation does not have Jesus coming until chapter 21..... IN THE FUTURE!!!



No, you're not sure and the reason you're not sure is because you haven't been paying attention. We are ALL futurists. We are not all modern futurists. YOU are a modern futurist. You believe a particular unique futurism that was invented in the 19th century. You unabashedly acknowledge you follow the views of John Thomas, not Jesus Christ.

No. That is completely false. That is a viewpoint held ONLY BY MODERN FUTURISTS!!!!!

Which is exactly what I said. Historicism is the oldest of our eschatological doctrines. It dates all the way back to the 100s AD, although its roots can be found in the earlier ECFs. The problem is the Historic view is radically different than the modern view and that is why the Historicists call their point of view historical!!! Those who subscribe to Historical Premillennialism do not share the same end times views as modern premillennialists. The Historicists do not separate the rapture from the final coming of Jesus and they do not think Israel, or its temple, its priesthood, or its sacrifice are relevant to Christian eschatology.

Have you ever read those authors for yourself, or was that list obtained from a second- or third-hand source? Where these men were premillennial, they were NOT premillennial like Christadelphianism teaches (or like Dispensationalism teaches, either). In other words, when modern futurists cite other premillennialists to justify their more modern views they are either ignorant or lying. Ignorant because thy haven't actually read what the early premils believed or lying because they have read them and seek to deceptively justify their position any way.

Take Bullinger, for example. In his sermons on the Apocalypse," he wrote,

"By these, St. John declareth him self, expounding what those thousand years shall be. Not such, doubtless, as very many (amongst whom are accounted also the Millenaries or Chiliasts) do imagine with themselves, in the which they say, there should be tranquility upon earth, and in the which years the saints here in Earth shall reign corporally with Christ in most exquisite pleasures and joys."​

That is directly and overtly opposite of what Christadelphianism teaches. Chialism is the belief the 1000 years of Rev. 20 is literal, and during that fixed, literal 1000-year period Jesus will establish a physical earthly kingdom prior to the final judgment. Now you know two things: 1) Bullinger was not Chiliast, and 2) whoever told you he was lied to you. This kind of deceit is very common among modern futurists. I was appalled when I discovered its enormity. It is one thing for the average internet poster to say something he may or may not have investigated but theologians are (supposedly well-educated and well-read. There is no excuse for a ThD to write something he has not verified (that qualifies as incompetence). It is reprehensible that he would write something he has investigated and knows not to be true, especially when he does so to justify something not actually stated in scripture.

So take whoever it was that told you Bullinger shared Christadelphian views off your list of trusted and reliable sources. And start paying attention.

The devil has wrapped up his lies in the ideas of man, so we can only rely on the truth given in Gods Wird...

 

[Mr GLee]

That is your loss, but given the other three beasts, this one is kind of obvious. Of course, we could always go with God not being immutable, but that wouldn't be true.

Not rightly interpreting the parables your loss. The temporal historical must be mixed with the unseen eternal spiritual (not seen) .

Christ has given us a valuable 20/20 tool prescription needed to rightly divide parables with without Christ the teacher spoke not.

(Don't leave earth without it)

2 Corinthians 4:18King James Version While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.


No spiritual understanding (gospel) its up to you to show they are not parables .Christ says without the signified tongue he spoke not .

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Two spirits that we are made aware of. The spirit of lies (dark) and Christ the Spirit of light (God is light) and not that he can only create it . Satan has no ability to form thing out of nothing .

One creator .Let there be Light and God introduces himself to darkness

Names as attributes for the Devil are numerous: Besides Lucifer, he may be referred to as the Prince of Darkness, serpent Beelzebub Lord of the Flies, the Antichrist, Father of Lies, Moloch or simply Satan.

Christ calls natural man "beast meaning". "living being, being which breathes,"

STOP ALLEGORIZING PROPHECY. If you do so, then none of the prophecies in the Old Testament speak to Christ. The whole reason it all works is that Jesus literally fulfilled the prophecies

Not good bedtimes stories for little ones.

No one is allegorizing its called rightly dividing or interpreting. Whereas an allegory is a complete story that seems to be about one thing but is actually about another, a metaphor is a sentence or short segment that equates two seemingly unrelated things.

Satan the god of this world. Lust flesh, lust eyes the two building blocks of false pride

He would have mankind believe and trust the temporal dying things seen as if God was a Jewish man as King of kings .

So yes without parables Christ did not fulfill prophecy

 

[CrowCross]

According to his work of faith as a labor of his love. . my living hope.

After the thief leaves our memories will be gone .

Ecc 9:4-8 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.

I think you have misunderstood that verse...as here is an example of the "dead" in heaven remembering.

Rev 6:10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

 

[Mr GLee]

I think you have misunderstood that verse...as here is an example of the "dead" in heaven remembering.

Rev 6:10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

Hi I would offer. .

Speaking from a earthly perspective . No sign was given to represent the last day under the Sun.

An evil generation (out of sight out of mind no gospel seeks after one to wonder after .not prophecy .

It as it is written (prophecy)for believers. No sign (false prophecy) needed

 

[Josheb]

Once again....the events in Revelation have not happend yet.

Once again, your posts contradict themselves. It is self-contradictory to state "the events of Revelation have not happened yet," and elsewhere report things stated therein (like the enthronement of Christ) have happened. It's also very disingenuous to make a blanket axiomatic statement like that when what you really mean is "My interpretations of Revelation have not yet happened."

 

[Josheb]

Greetings again Josheb and CrowCross,

I am the Librarian for our meeting, and I also have a large personal library. I was quoting from one of our publications. The Brother concerned wrote a large paper, possibly part of his University studies. He presented it to one of our Publishers, but they agreed on only issuing a summary of his paper. Whether or not he discovered the full range of their teachings, his report of their interpretation of the first four Seals is accurate. I have yet to hear from you as to how you understand the first four Seals.

All of whom were wrong. They were wrong because they did not consider any of the content I posted and if you are in a position of any influence or authority then you have a duty to make sure the whole word of God is presented and any and ALL man-made doctrines considered thereof.

I assume this is stating the first four Seals are future.

Revelation 5:9–10 (KJV): 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

If the faithful are kings and priests on the earth after the resurrection, I am not sure where you place Jesus at that same time:
Revelation 20:4–6 (KJV): 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 3:21–22 (KJV): 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Matthew 19:28 (KJV): And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Kind regards
Trevor

Again: Not a single verse just quoted ever mentions Jesus is physically living on earth.Revelation does not explicitly report Jesus coming to earth until chapter 21 (long after the thousand years are completed). You may post those same passages ad nauseam, but that will not change the facts of scripture.

Not a single verse just quoted ever mentions Jesus is physically living on earth. Revelation does not explicitly report Jesus coming to earth until chapter 21.​

You should bring that up at your next meeting..... and then LISTEN as they attempt to rationalize their inferences ignoring the stated facts.



And you are not dealing with the particulars of the posts. Yuo made mistakes about preterism AND about what I'd previously posted. Correction was provided and then promptly ignored in favor of an ad nauseam argument already corrected multiple times.

• Yes, Josh, I now understand you're not saying all of Revelation has transpired.
• Yes, Josh, I now understand preterists can and do still look forward to a another coming of Christ and it was wrong of me to conclude otherwise.
• Yes, Josh, I now understand the difference between inventing a point of view and formalizing it into a specific doctrine, and it was wrong of me to confuse the two.
• Yes, Josh, I now understand de Alcazar's preterism was developed to defend the Pope and that's not what the preterists here are doing so... it was wrong of me to think they are arguing Alcazar's pov.
• Yes, Josh, I now understand the differences between Historic Premillennialism and modern futurism, as well as some of the differences between all the historical and orthodox eschatological points of view and the modern futurist eschatologies.
• Yes, Josh, I now understand the inherent contradiction saying God will have X, Y, and/or Z done in the future when He has already said He did not want any of them.
• Yes. Josh, I now understand the problem quoting your posts a misrepresenting them because their content was neglected or ignored.
• Yes, Josh, I now understand there isn't a single verse in Revelation explicitly reporting Jesus is coming to earth until chapter 21.
• Yes. Josh I now understand Jesus IS stated to come down from heaven to earth in chapters 21-22 of Revelation.
• Yes, Josh, I now understand the history of Christadelphianism as a Restoration Movement sect of the 19th century and its unique views on end times are a modern invention.
• Yes, Josh, I now understand the problem inherent in following end-times teachers who have not been correct one in nearly 200 years.
• Yes, Josh, I have always understood John Thomas's teaching were much different than historical Christianity but my allegiance to Watsonism is ideological.
• Yes, Josh, I now understand ignoring scripture is a problem.
• Yes, Josh, I now understanding ignoring what other writes makes for poor conversation.

Any one of those points could have been acknowledged and addressed but weren't. All of them should be engaged, but none of them are.

Revelation 5:9–10 (KJV).......

Says we shall reign on the earth. It makes no mention of Jesus.

Revelation 5:9–10 (KJV).......

Says we shall reign on the earth. It makes no mention of Jesus.

Revelation 5:9–10 (KJV).......

Says we shall reign on the earth. It makes no mention of Jesus.

Revelation 5:9–10 (KJV).......

Says we shall reign on the earth. It makes no mention of Jesus.

Revelation 5:9–10 (KJV).......

Says we shall reign on the earth. It makes no mention of Jesus.

Revelation 5:9–10 (KJV).......

Says we shall reign on the earth. It makes no mention of Jesus.

 

[Josheb]

The devil has wrapped up his lies in the ideas of man, so we can only rely on the truth given in Gods Wird...

Proverbs 26:17


.

 

[CrowCross]

Hi I would offer. .

Speaking from a earthly perspective . No sign was given to represent the last day under the Sun.

An evil generation (out of sight out of mind no gospel seeks after one to wonder after .not prophecy .

It as it is written (prophecy)for believers. No sign (false prophecy) needed

???? You didn't deal with the response....I presented people in heaven remembering...you said that doesn't happen.

 

[CrowCross]

Once again, your posts contradict themselves. It is self-contradictory to state "the events of Revelation have not happened yet," and elsewhere report things stated therein (like the enthronement of Christ) have happened. It's also very disingenuous to make a blanket axiomatic statement like that when what you really mean is "My interpretations of Revelation have not yet happened."

Two witnesses...who were they???? They came and went years ago, right?

 

[EarlyActs]

Greetings again Josheb and EarlyActs,

I will continue to endorse the Throne of David in Jerusalem Isaiah 2:1-4, Jeremiah 3:17, Micah 4:1-8. One of my favourite chapters is Isaiah 6, and I consider that this is a vision of Jesus as the King / Priest on the Temple Throne in Jerusalem during the 1000 years.

I and Christadelphians are not "future premillennialists" but endorse "continuous historicism" and accept John Thomas' exposition in his 5 volume exposition "Eureka - An Exposition of the Apocalypse",

I appreciate your detailed and interesting overview.

John Thomas was based in the US, but he preached in the UK and Christadelphianism grew in the UK mainly under the influence and guidance of Robert Roberts the editor of The Christadelphian magazine. Yes, John Thomas adopted the title "Christadelphian" because of the American Civil War. He dod not want the prospect of his brethren in the north and those in the south blowing out each other's brains as did many Catholics and Protestants.

Interesting perspective, but I consider that there have been faithful individuals and pockets of faithful throughout the 2000 years. Many of these were persecuted by the RCC as predicted in Daniel 7.

We consider that our beliefs correspond to the Apostolic teaching and practice.

I assume you mean John Thomas here. I am not sure if you have commented on this before, but your suggestion that the main body of Christians have taught the same ideas on or against the millennium for 2000 years is fallacious. The following quote from Gibbons appears to prove otherwise. and also Calvinism and Preterism is a modern development.
“The ancient and popular doctrine of the Millennium was intimately connected with the second coming of Christ. As the works of creation had been finished in six days, their duration, in their present state, according to a tradition which was attributed to the prophet Elijah, was fixed to six thousand years. By the same analogy it was inferred that this long period of labor and contention, which was now almost elapsed (as they supposed), would be succeeded by a joyful Sabbath of a thousand years; and that Christ, with the triumphant band of the Saints and the elect who had escaped death, or who had been miraculously revived, would reign upon earth till the time appointed for the last and general resurrection. So pleasing was this hope to the minds of believers, that the New Jerusalem, the seat of this blissful kingdom, was quickly adorned with all the gayest colors of the imagination. A felicity consisting only of pure and spiritual pleasure would have appeared too refined for its inhabitants, who were still supposed to possess their human nature and senses. A garden of Eden with the amusements of pastoral life, was no longer suited to the advanced state of society which prevailed under the Roman Empire. A city was therefore erected, of gold and precious stones, and a supernatural plenty of corn and wine was bestowed on the adjacent territory; in the free enjoyment of whose spontaneous productions, the happy and benevolent people was never to be restrained by any jealous laws of exclusive property. The assurance of such a millennium was carefully inculcated by a succession of fathers, from Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, who conversed with the immediate disciples of the apostles, down to Lactantius, who was preceptor to the son of Constantine. Though it might not be universally received, it appears to have been the reigning sentiment of the orthodox believers; and it seems so well adapted to the desires and apprehensions of mankind, that it must have contributed in a very considerable degree to the progress of the Christian faith. But when the edifice of the church was almost completed, the temporary support was laid aside. The doctrine of Christ’s reign upon earth was at first treated as a profound allegory, was considered by degrees as a doubtful and useless opinion, and was at length rejected as the absurd invention of heresy and fanaticism. A mysterious prophecy (the Apocalypse) which still forms a part of the sacred canon, but which was thought to favor the exploded sentiment, has very narrowly escaped the proscription of THE CHURCH.”


Refer my post here and previous Posts. Acts 2 is very clear and simple to me.

Kind regards
Trevor

Of course I meant a Greek grammar commentary that says “this” is not the resurrection. There is no other way to establish your point.

 

[EarlyActs]

"Eschatology" in general is nothing more than "Rank Speculation", more often fictional than actual, but there is some mention of the antichrist and the temple. That Israel intends to build one is beyond question. When where and how, on the other hand -

The '20s will be an interesting decade, i'm sure.

They could. It will have nothing to do with Jesus teaching in Mt 24 nor with things Paul said to the Thess believers.

 

[EarlyActs]

Nothing about a distant future would cause serious remorse. It was caused by there role of rejection of their enthroned king.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Josheb,

All of whom were wrong. They were wrong because they did not consider any of the content I posted and if you are in a position of any influence or authority then you have a duty to make sure the whole word of God is presented and any and ALL man-made doctrines considered thereof.

I consider that the list is correct. All of these commentators accepted that the first four Seals were judgements on the Pagan Roman Empire. They did not accept the concept that the first four Seals were fulfilled in the events surrounding AD 70, and they did not believe that the first four Seals were future from thier own time.

Not a single verse just quoted ever mentions Jesus is physically living on earth. Revelation does not explicitly report Jesus coming to earth until chapter 21.

If the faithful are upon the earth during the 1000 years and they are WITH Jesus, then Jesus is also upon the earth in His Kingdom during the 1000 years. We may differ in the sequence of events surrounding the return of Jesus to the earth near the beginning of the Kingdom. One of our expositors from another Australian State gave four talks about his understanding of the events before and after the return of Jesus at a local Ecclesia in our area, and I have only last week listened to these talks. They were very interesting and I agree with much of what he elaborated, but not every detail.

• Yes, Josh, I now understand you're not saying all of Revelation has transpired.
• Yes, Josh, I now understand preterists can and do still look forward to a another coming of Christ and it was wrong of me to conclude otherwise.
• Yes, Josh, I now understand de Alcazar's preterism was developed to defend the Pope and that's not what the preterists here are doing so... it was wrong of me to think they are arguing Alcazar's pov.
• Yes. Josh, I now understand the problem quoting your posts a misrepresenting them because their content was neglected or ignored.

I can with some reserve agree here.

• Yes, Josh, I now understand the differences between Historic Premillennialism and modern futurism, as well as some of the differences between all the historical and orthodox eschatological points of view and the modern futurist eschatologies.

No, I do not agree.

• Yes, Josh, I now understand the inherent contradiction saying God will have X, Y, and/or Z done in the future when He has already said He did not want any of them.

No, I do not agree.

• Yes, Josh, I now understand there isn't a single verse in Revelation explicitly reporting Jesus is coming to earth until chapter 21.
• Yes. Josh I now understand Jesus IS stated to come down from heaven to earth in chapters 21-22 of Revelation.

Yes, Revelation 21 states this, but it is implied in the following and I consider that this is our present era:
Revelation 16:15–16 (KJV): 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
I consider that this is teaching that Jesus will come soon to judge the faithful and give them everlasting life in the Kingdom, but also that shortly after this there will be the Battle of Armageddon, and Jesus will be on the earth and very much involved in this.

• Yes, Josh, I now understand the history of Christadelphianism as a Restoration Movement sect of the 19th century and its unique views on end times are a modern invention.
• Yes, Josh, I now understand the problem inherent in following end-times teachers who have not been correct one in nearly 200 years.

No, I disagree. Consider the first four Seals. The book that I referred to also has listings of various Commentators who have agreed with Christadelphian's view of Daniel 2, Daniel 7, 2 Thessalonians 2, Revelation 8-9, Revelation 11, Revelation 12, Revelation 13, Revelation 16 and Revelation 17.

• Yes, Josh, I have always understood John Thomas's teaching were much different than historical Christianity but my allegiance to Watsonism is ideological.

I do not have a clue about your term "Watsonism".

Says we shall reign on the earth. It makes no mention of Jesus.

Do you believe that the faithful will be Kings and Priests on the earth, but Jesus will still be in heaven?

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Mr GLee]

???? You didn't deal with the response....I presented people in heaven remembering...you said that doesn't happen.

Again speaking or praying from a earthly perspective. In other words when will the end come

Once a person leaves earth the prior relations will not be remember. Now is the time dying mankind can Love one another.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

 

[Josheb]

Two witnesses...who were they???? They came and went years ago, right?

First, I am not chasing you around the thread as you jump from verse to verse to verse ad nauseam because you refuse to acknowledge you are wrong. You said, NOTHING in Revelation has yet occurred and that is wrong. Some of Revelation has occurred so you need to stop posting NONE of it has occurred. How hard is it for you to say, "Yes, I overstepped. I overgeneralized my belief much of Revelation is yet to happen and mistakenly said none of it has occurred when I know that not to be true"?

Second, no amount of ANYONE showing you when, where, or how something may have already occurred will convince you so your questions are disingenuous. You ask but you'd not really want to know. If all the evidence was agreed with the modern futurism to which you dearly and ideologically hold would have to be abandoned, those original sources will be questions, and figuring out how it was possible to fall prey to the bad teaching will result. Do not ask questions for which the answered are not sincerely wanted and don't ask if you are not going to accept the answer.

Third, this all started because of your refusal to add, ...according to me interpretation," to the "None of Revelation has happened." It took several attempts to get you to acknowledge the measurably more truthful statement, "According to my interpretation of Revelation none of Revelation has happened, " AND after doing so that fact, that truth has been ignored and abandoned. Every subsequent claim nothing in Revelation has happened has occurred without the already acknowledged fact it's your interpretation that hasn't happened. This has NOTHING to do with anyone else's interrelation, or the fact that at least one other poster did not interpret the salient parts of Revelation but read them exactly as written.



So.....

You address these three points and then I will tell you about the two witnesses. Acknowledge the over-generalized claim of NTHING in Revelation has happened when verse 1:19 plainly states some of it has. Acknowledge the fact you're not authentically interested in the answers and ask them because you do not believe they can be answered so you won't have to bend to scripture. Acknowledge your claim is ENTIRELY a function of your interpretation and not an objective, plain reading of the text and the foundation of your entire dissent is "My interpretation is better than everyone else's interpretations."

Do it now.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Once again....the events in Revelation have not happend yet.

Once again, you are ignoring the language of scripture by Christ and John that spoke of those events in Revelation that were "about to come to pass" (Luke 21:36), and that were "about to be hereafter" (Rev. 1:19).

You just don't know how to tell time.

 

[CrowCross]

Again speaking or praying from a earthly perspective. In other words when will the end come

Once a person leaves earth the prior relations will not be remember. Now is the time dying mankind can Love one another.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Let me say it again...you are misrepresenting tat verse as I have presented you a verse that says people in heaven will remember.

Address that.

 

[CrowCross]

First, I am not chasing you around the thread as you jump from verse to verse to verse ad nauseam because you refuse to acknowledge you are wrong. You said, NOTHING in Revelation has yet occurred and that is wrong. Some of Revelation has occurred so you need to stop posting NONE of it has occurred. How hard is it for you to say, "Yes, I overstepped. I overgeneralized my belief much of Revelation is yet to happen and mistakenly said none of it has occurred when I know that not to be true"?

None...NONE...NONE...of the judgements presented in Revelation have happened yet. NONE.

No 4 horsemen...no mark of the beast, no witnesses......nothing yet.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Says we shall reign on the earth. It makes no mention of Jesus.

I believe the better translations of this Revelation 5:10 verse read a bit differently, as in "We shall reign OVER the earth". This removes the question of who is physically present on the earth. After all, the context is the 4 beasts and the 24 elders who were presented as being in heaven as they were saying this statement.

God has always reigned over the earth from His heavenly abode, even without physically being present on the globe's surface. Likewise, the saints can be in a status of reigning "OVER the earth" positionally because we are IN CHRIST who is presently seated on the throne in heaven at God's right hand, ruling in the midst of His enemies who are on the earth.

All power was given unto Christ Jesus in heaven and in earth long ago (Matt. 28:18). We saints on earth share in that kind of power positionally: "...and did raise us up together, and did seat us together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:6) This same idea is presented in Revelation 2:26-27. "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power OVER the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father."

Think of this Revelation 5:10 verse as compared to a business owner who has control over that company, even if he is not physically present in the boardroom of every business meeting for that company.

 

[Mr GLee]

Let me say it again...you are misrepresenting tat verse as I have presented you a verse that says people in heaven will remember.

Address that.

I have. Men on earth a praying wondering when will the end last day under the Sun come of those whose blood dwell on earth. . no sign was given

Rev 6:10 They on earth cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
Dying flesh and blood could never enter heaven .it must be poured out so it can return to the field of Clay

Slower more carefully, prayerfully. Be careful what you hear, how you hear by whom you say you do