Why the Sabbath is used by God as his seal.

[jeremiah1five]

Many will come from East and West and the children of Abraham left behind because of their unbelief is what we are shown..

9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.
Mt 8:9–13.

The centurion was a Gentile God-Fearer. These people are uncircumcised but committed to obedience to the Law of Moses and to raising their children in the Law of Moses. He was a friend of the Jewish people and through his attendance at the sabbath synagogue knew enough of the Hebrew Scripture to identify this Jesus as Israel's long-awaited Messiah.

So, here's Jesus saying the children of the kingdom of heaven sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

But the children of the kingdom (Gentile Roman Empire) shall be cast out into outer darkness, and these shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
He cannot be referring to the children of the kingdom of heaven in the first kingdom with Abe, then say the children of the same kingdom are also cast out in the second referenced kingdom. Makes no sense. So, those in the first kingdom of heaven are Hebrews, and the children in the second kingdom (without the word "heaven") are someone else entirely, but not Hebrews because they're all with Abe and his seed. The only people left are Gentiles.

Gentiles to the left of me, Hebrews to the right, here I am....stuck in the middle with you.

 

[Hobie]

9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.
Mt 8:9–13.

The centurion was a Gentile God-Fearer. These people are uncircumcised but committed to obedience to the Law of Moses and to raising their children in the Law of Moses. He was a friend of the Jewish people and through his attendance at the sabbath synagogue knew enough of the Hebrew Scripture to identify this Jesus as Israel's long-awaited Messiah.

So, here's Jesus saying the children of the kingdom of heaven sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

But the children of the kingdom (Gentile Roman Empire) shall be cast out into outer darkness, and these shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
He cannot be referring to the children of the kingdom of heaven in the first kingdom with Abe, then say the children of the same kingdom are also cast out in the second referenced kingdom. Makes no sense. So, those in the first kingdom of heaven are Hebrews, and the children in the second kingdom (without the word "heaven") are someone else entirely, but not Hebrews because they're all with Abe and his seed. The only people left are Gentiles.

Gentiles to the left of me, Hebrews to the right, here I am....stuck in the middle with you.

Gentiles Grafted In​

11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion[a] mean!

13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root[b] of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

 

[Eleanor]

Gentiles Grafted In​

11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion[a] mean!
13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root[b] of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say,

“Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

Israel's destiny is to be grafted back into the one olive tree of Gods people, the church, IF (not "when") they do not continue in unbelief.

 

[Mr GLee]

There is only ONE people Chosen and they are Israel. There is NO SCRIPTURE in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets stating Gentiles are chosen of God. NONE. So, let's not add to the bible and keep your interpretation in line with Scripture

Take note:

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. Deut 7:5–6

I would offer. . .Holy people. Not Holy Race. God is not a racist .

Racism is the sin of prejudging another as if in the place of God who alone knows the hearts of all men .

The Holy Spirit using Jacob the second born. Jacob meaning deceiver or one that grasps the heel of another. Demonstrated with his twin Esau .Continuing the second birth seed (Christ) as in "a man" must be born again .Naming Israel his bride .

In order to fulfil the meaning of name Abraham meaning the Holy Father of all the nations .In Isaiah 62 he promised to rename his bride. And when the time of first century reformation had come .He named her Christian a more befitting name to name the bride of all the nations .

Using a demonym, people known by places of residents. Named her Christian literally meaning "residents of the city of Christ" prepared for his bride the church .named after her husband and founder Christ

Not all Israel is born again Israel .Just as in the same way with the word Christian .

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Revelation 21King James Version And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband

 

[Josheb]

Israel's destiny is to be grafted back into the one olive tree of Gods people, the church, IF (not "when") they do not continue in unbelief.

Where do you read Israel has been cut or broken off the tree?

Where do you read the "olive tree" is God's people (as opposed to Jesus)?

 

[Eleanor]

Where do you read Israel has been cut or broken off the tree?

In the authoritative NT apostolic teaching of Ro 11:16:b-22.

Where do you read the "olive tree" is God's people (as opposed to Jesus)?

In the same authoritative NT apostolic teaching of Ro 11:7-24.

 

[Fred]

stamped a seal of Gods authority

The Holy Spirit is the seal, not the Sabbath (Ephesians 1:13; 4:30).

 

[Josheb]

In the authoritative NT apostolic teaching of Ro 11:16:b-22.

In the same authoritative NT apostolic teaching of Ro 11:7-24.

Neither text states what you say they say. The text does NOT state Israel was broken off or that the tree is god's people. It says branches were broken off and it says some of the branches, not the whole of Israel. Go back and re-read it. You've misunderstood it. As a consequence of that misunderstanding, everything you've built on that misunderstanding is equally misguided.

Gentile converts to Christ are grafter into the exact same tree as those who come from Judaism. The "tree" is the tree of life, Jesus. The Church does not replace Israel, it is grafted into Christ along with Israel....... except for those who do not believe. Those are the branches broken off. It is the branches that constitute God's people (which in Christ is neither Jew nor Gentile). Paul did not stop being an Israelite because he became a believer in Christ (and he was certainly not a Gentile convert).


If you'd like to know more about this and study the passage from a couple of different perspectives, then I highly recommend this book. If you do, pm me or post about it and we can discuss the views asserted therein.
.

 

[Eleanor]

Neither text states what you say they say. The text does NOT state Israel was broken off or that the tree is god's people. It says branches were broken off and it says some of the branches, not the whole of Israel.

You simply do not understand it in the context of Romans 9-11, which is a vindication of the righteousness of God in the rejection of Israel, except for a remnant.

Go back and re-read it. You've misunderstood it. As a consequence of that misunderstanding, everything you've built on that misunderstanding is equally misguided.

Gentile converts to Christ are grafter into the exact same tree as those who come from Judaism. The "tree" is the tree of life, Jesus. The Church does not replace Israel, it is grafted into Christ along with Israel....... except for those who do not believe. Those are the branches broken off. It is the branches that constitute God's people (which in Christ is neither Jew nor Gentile). Paul did not stop being an Israelite because he became a believer in Christ (and he was certainly not a Gentile convert).


If you'd like to know more about this and study the passage from a couple of different perspectives, then I highly recommend this book. If you do, pm me or post about it and we can discuss the views asserted therein.
.

 

[Josheb]

You simply do not understand it......

Thank you for your time but given the refusal to answer questions in a direct and/or timely manner and the appalling misuse of scripture I don't think you've got any business telling anyone they do not understand anything. Ever. Aside from being ad hominemic, "You do not understand..... is not an appropriate response to the facts posted. The text does NOT state Israel was removed from the tree (as was previously asserted) and it definitely does not state the tree is God's people (as was previously asserted). What you claimed was the authoritative apostolic teaching was grossly incorrect.

Had a moment of thought been put into those two claims it would be realized the argument is Israel (God's people) has been removed from God's people (Israel). That is self-contradictory!!! There's no way in heaven and earth the apostles taught nonsense and thought it authoritative (or inspired). One would first have to deny Israel was ever God's people (and thereby deny a pile of OT scripture).

2 Samuel 7:24
For You have established for Yourself Your people Israel as Your own people forever, and You, LORD, have become their God.

.....the context of Romans 9-11, which is a vindication of the righteousness of God in the rejection of Israel, except for a remnant.

Hmmm... so God's righteousness needed vindication. Got it. Israel has been rejected. Got it. First of all, the word "righteousness" does not appear anywhere in the entire chapter. You literally invented that position because it's completely absent from the actual text. Furthermore, the very first verse of the chapter explicitly states, "God has NOT rejected His people and include Paul self-ascribing himself as an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin!

Romans 11:1
I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? [a]Far from it! For I too am an Israelite, https://biblehub.com/nasb_/romans/11.htm#fna descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
And then Paul repeats himself: God has NOT rejected His people. Go back and re-read the chapter and re-read it before posting again so you do not AGAIN contradict what is written.

Israel's destiny is to be grafted back into the one olive tree of Gods people, the church, IF (not "when") they do not continue in unbelief.

The tree is not God's people' it is Jesus (the tree of life). God's people are either original branches of that tree or ones grafted into it/him. Any "grafting back" that occurs relevant to that chapter is explicitly stated to occur at the time Paul wrote that epistle.

Romans 11:5
In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice.

We might take a somewhat Idealist approach to that statement of Paul's and generalize God always preserving a remnant for Himself by grace, but that can NEVER be assumed in contradiction to what is plainly, specifically explicitly stated.

You simply do not understand it in the context of Romans 9-11...

Yes, I do. I can actually point to specific statements written write there in the passage that anyone can read for themselves and verify, while you have, in every post, made up stuff that is nowhere found in Romans 11.

There were no "Jews" prior to Abraham, who lived about 2,100+ years before Christ.

That's true BUT the whole truth is there were no Jews until long after the Hebrews entered the promised land (hundreds of years after Abraham died) and the tribe of Judah settled its portion of the promised land. You should pay attention to the details with @jeremiah1five because he's adjusting his posts to accommodate these truths (he used to incorrectly conflate Hebrews and Jews). On the positive side of discourse, he's shown an ability to receive the facts of scripture and amend his position(s) accordingly but on the negative side he's still ideologically (idolatrously) holding on to a two-kingdoms/two peoples theology that is nowhere found in scripture. In other words, if you pay attention to the details of scripture then you also might have a positive influence on him but if the two of you commit the same error of constant inferential readings, then neither of you will get anywhere and you'll both end up endlessly arguing two irreconcilable falsehoods.

God has only one people, and that people is the body of Christ, those who live by faith in the gospel, those who are by grace through faith the body of Christ.

Romans 11:2
God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew.

God foreknew His people. The people He foreknew are His people. God has NOT rejected His people; He has NOT rejected the people He foreknew.

Romans 8:28-30
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

@jeremiah1five would have us all believe that letter was written only to Jews, about Jews, for Jews..... despite the fact the letter is explicitly addressed to.......

Romans 1:1-7
Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake, among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ; to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


The saints in Christ...... which included those among the Gentiles who God, through Paul's preaching, had brought about obedience. The gospel concerning his Son had been promised beforehand through His prophets in the Holy scriptures and both Jews and Gentiles are partakers in that gospel, along with all its promises and inheritances.

That is the context for chapter 11.


Israel was not rejected. The tree is not God's people. God's righteousness needs no vindication, and you've got no business telling anyone they don't understand.

Romans 9:6-7
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants.......

Not all Israel is Israel. The Israel that is Israel is not rejected (ever). The Israel that is not Israel was never Israel in the first place other than merely in name. God has not rejected Israel...... the Israel that is Israel. At that present time He had preserved a remnant.

 

[Mr GLee]

You simply do not understand it in the context of Romans 9-11, which is a vindication of the righteousness of God in the rejection of Israel, except for a remnant.

Remember not all Israel is born again Israel, Just as after the new name the father promised to name in Isaiah 62 he renamed the His bride Christian .A remnant of Christian / Israel will be saved


Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of (born again) Israel:

 

[Mr GLee]

In the authoritative NT apostolic teaching of Ro 11:16:b-22.

In the same authoritative NT apostolic teaching of Ro 11:7-24.

No such thing a apostolic teaching, apostolic succession or apostolic time period .

Christ is the one good teaching master in any time period.

 

[Eleanor]

No such thing as apostolic teaching,

Christ is the one good teaching master in any time period.

Explains a lot. . .