Why the Fossil Record Can't Be Due To Noah's Flood

[EarlyActs]

And as I have stated because there are not "piles of information and evidence around the world" for the global flood. There is no geologic evidence that a global flood covering the entire earth has occurred at any time in Earth's history. I learned that from top YEC geologists.I studied under while earning my paleontology degree.

Oh. I have a few hundred questions. My research bibliography in my novel DELUGE OF SUSPICIONS is 6 pages, less than half sourced by Christians. I will share it later. I was traveling back on a family emergency and still don't feel settled.

As a pastor friend with a Ph.D. would ask: what hydrological conditions existed to make ____ this happen? Let's try the word 'opisthotonics in the Rockies.' Go.

 

[EarlyActs]

Fair enough. But then like I said, in order to support your theory you have to deny the plain, literal meaning of Scripture

Now you are being obstinate, and guilting about literalism. If I was to define your literalism, it would be 'auto-dictated by God in a modern air-conditioned room. Come back in 5 minutes for your wireless print copy.'

Allowing for later clarification by a person trying to identify an ancient location by current markers, names would could not exist in the ancient situation, is not violating plain, literal. So forget that.

 

[EarlyActs]

Yes, it certainly is. And the best way to understand that is to understand what that would have meant to people in Bible times in the Ancient Near East (not what it means to us or what we think it means today). And when we do that we see that there is a direct parallel between the opening verses of Genesis and the Ancient Near East belief that the created world came out of a pre-existing primordial state of formless, watery chaos. We further see that Genesis 1 reads like a line by line rebuttal of Egyptian pagan creation myths and teaches that there is only one true God (Elohim).

Seems good, thanks.

 

[David1701]

I don't claim it. The Bible indicates it. For thousands of years people have understood that when the Bible speaks of the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers that it means the same Tigris and Euphrates Rivers throughout. There is *nothing* in the Bible that suggests the Bible is referring to completely different rivers with the same names. And no one ever questioned the literal, straightforward understanding of Scripture *until* recent times when it was discovered that the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers are underlain by 5-6 miles of fossil record, which contradicts the *non-biblical* YEC *assumption* that the fossil record is due to Noah's Flood. That is doing exactly what YECs accuse OECs of doing: changing Scripture to fit modern science instead of believing what Scripture says.

Try answering my questions then. It should be easy for you, if the Tigris and Euphrates rivers are the same ones as in Gen. 2. Of course, if they're not, you won't be able to, which is presumably why you have made no attempt. Here they are again...

Genesis 2:10-14 (VW)
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it divided and became four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pishon; it is the one which circles around all the land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 and the gold of that land is good. Bdellium and the onyx stone are there.
13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one which circles around all the land of Cush.
14 The name of the third river is Tigris; it is the one going toward the east of Assyria. The fourth river is Euphrates.

If, as you claim, the Tigris and Euphrates rivers are same ones mentioned in Genesis, then please answer the following:

1) Show the location of the river that comes out of Eden and divides into four heads

2) Indicate the location of the river Pishon

3) Indicate the location of the river Gihon

4) Show where the rivers Tigris and Euphrates divide from the larger river.

5) Show how "...going towards the east of Assyria" is anything to do with any modern city

6) Prove your assumption that, in spite of drastically different geology, the rivers Tigris and Euphrates, in Genesis 2, are the same as the modern ones (hint: this question is rhetorical, since it's obviously impossible)

 

[TB2]

Now you are being obstinate, and guilting about literalism. If I was to define your literalism, it would be 'auto-dictated by God in a modern air-conditioned room. Come back in 5 minutes for your wireless print copy.'

Allowing for later clarification by a person trying to identify an ancient location by current markers, names would could not exist in the ancient situation, is not violating plain, literal. So forget that.

My OP is directed at YECs who interpret the Bible literally, so if that doesn't apply to you, then that doesn't apply to you

 

[TB2]

Try answering my questions then. It should be easy for you, if the Tigris and Euphrates rivers are the same ones as in Gen. 2. Of course, if they're not, you won't be able to, which is presumably why you have made no attempt. Here they are again...

Genesis 2:10-14 (VW)
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it divided and became four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pishon; it is the one which circles around all the land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 and the gold of that land is good. Bdellium and the onyx stone are there.
13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one which circles around all the land of Cush.
14 The name of the third river is Tigris; it is the one going toward the east of Assyria. The fourth river is Euphrates.

If, as you claim, the Tigris and Euphrates rivers are same ones mentioned in Genesis, then please answer the following:

1) Show the location of the river that comes out of Eden and divides into four heads

2) Indicate the location of the river Pishon

3) Indicate the location of the river Gihon

4) Show where the rivers Tigris and Euphrates divide from the larger river.

5) Show how "...going towards the east of Assyria" is anything to do with any modern city

6) Prove your assumption that, in spite of drastically different geology, the rivers Tigris and Euphrates, in Genesis 2, are the same as the modern ones (hint: this question is rhetorical, since it's obviously impossible)

No one claimed we know all the geographic locations mentioned in the Bible and there are many that are lost to us today. But what is apparent, however, is that Genesis was written Post-Flood and Genesis 2 is identifying the four Pre-Flood rivers associated with the Garden of Eden in relation to Post-Flood geography that the readers in that time would have understood. And we *do* know some of them, like Ashur, the ancient capital city of Assyria whose ruins are still visible today on the surface of the earth (*on top* of 5-6 miles of fossil record)

 

[David1701]

No one claimed we know all the geographic locations mentioned in the Bible and there are many that are lost to us today. But what is apparent, however, is that Genesis was written Post-Flood and Genesis 2 is identifying the four Pre-Flood rivers associated with the Garden of Eden in relation to Post-Flood geography that the readers in that time would have understood. And we *do* know some of them, like Ashur, the ancient capital city of Assyria whose ruins are still visible today on the surface of the earth (*on top* of 5-6 miles of fossil record)

...Genesis 2 is identifying the four Pre-Flood rivers associated with the Garden of Eden in relation to Post-Flood geography...

One pre-Flood river, branching into four - yes. In relation to post-Flood geography - no. It's hardly surprising that those who came off the ark (and/or their descendants, having heard from their parents), after Noah's Flood would have named the new rivers and lands that they found, and towns they founded, after places they knew from before the Flood.

The original Tigris and Euphrates (along with two other rivers that no longer exist) branched off a larger river. The modern Tigris and Euphrates do not. Face the facts: they are different rivers, named after the originals.

 

[EarlyActs]

My OP is directed at YECs who interpret the Bible literally, so if that doesn't apply to you, then that doesn't apply to you

but your argument falls apart if you don't have literalism to battle. You don't. In the graduate program where I studied, they 'sought to read the Bible with as much humanity as possible.'

You might be more helpful if you explained to people about oral transmission, flattening, latency.

 

[TB2]

One pre-Flood river, branching into four - yes. In relation to post-Flood geography - no. It's hardly surprising that those who came off the ark (and/or their descendants, having heard from their parents), after Noah's Flood would have named the new rivers and lands that they found, and towns they founded, after places they knew from before the Flood.

The original Tigris and Euphrates (along with two other rivers that no longer exist) branched off a larger river. The modern Tigris and Euphrates do not. Face the facts: they are different rivers, named after the originals.

Yes, I understand the argument. True, the Tigris and Euphrates headwaters come from the same region but don't connect. That has long been a mystery. A mystery that has been noted down through church history and even noted by first century Jewish historian Josephus. But everyone still recognized (*until recent times*) that the Bible is identifying the same Tigris and Euphrates Rivers that are still there today. Josephus suggested the same that the rivers must have shifted somehow, but he never thought today's Tigris and Euphrates Rivers were completely different rivers altogether. Nor did anyone else.... until modern times.

The Genesis Flood account says the waters rose, and the waters receded. There is no talk about sedimentation and deposition. That's our understanding of modern science that we're reading back into the Bible. In ancient times they didn't know about sedimentation. The Flood waters rose then fell back to where they were. Sinful humanity was drowned. The rivers are still there. No contradiction from their point of view and understanding.

You don't seem to realize how much you are letting modern scientific ideas and YEC assumptions about flood geology influence your interpretation.

It may not make sense to us today. We may see it as contradictory (and yes, it does contradict YEC flood geology assumptions), but that doesnt give us the license to change the plain, literal meaning of Scripture.

Whether we like it or not, Gen 2.14 identifies the PRE-Flood Tigris River in relation to the POST-Flood ancient capital city of Assyria, Ashur. How do we harmonize that with what we know today? I don't know. But we can't pretend that the plain, literal meaning of Gen 2.14 is saying something different than what it is saying.

 

[TB2]

but your argument falls apart if you don't have literalism to battle. You don't. In the graduate program where I studied, they 'sought to read the Bible with as much humanity as possible.'

You might be more helpful if you explained to people about oral transmission, flattening, latency.

As I said, then the OP doesn't apply to you

 

[David1701]

Yes, I understand the argument. True, the Tigris and Euphrates headwaters come from the same region but don't connect. That has long been a mystery. A mystery that has been noted down through church history and even noted by first century Jewish historian Josephus. But everyone still recognized (*until recent times*) that the Bible is identifying the same Tigris and Euphrates Rivers that are still there today. Josephus suggested the same that the rivers must have shifted somehow, but he never thought today's Tigris and Euphrates Rivers were completely different rivers altogether. Nor did anyone else.... until modern times.

The Genesis Flood account says the waters rose, and the waters receded. There is no talk about sedimentation and deposition. That's our understanding of modern science that we're reading back into the Bible. In ancient times they didn't know about sedimentation. The Flood waters rose then fell back to where they were. Sinful humanity was drowned. The rivers are still there. No contradiction from their point of view and understanding.

You don't seem to realize how much you are letting modern scientific ideas and YEC assumptions about flood geology influence your interpretation.

It may not make sense to us today. We may see it as contradictory (and yes, it does contradict YEC flood geology assumptions), but that doesnt give us the license to change the plain, literal meaning of Scripture.

Whether we like it or not, Gen 2.14 identifies the PRE-Flood Tigris River in relation to the POST-Flood ancient capital city of Assyria, Ashur. How do we harmonize that with what we know today? I don't know. But we can't pretend that the plain, literal meaning of Gen 2.14 is saying something different than what it is saying.

But everyone still recognized (*until recent times*) that the Bible is identifying the same Tigris and Euphrates Rivers that are still there today.

No; many ASSUMED that the Bible identifies the original Tigris and Euphrates with their modern namesakes.

The Genesis Flood account says the waters rose, and the waters receded. There is no talk about sedimentation and deposition.

The Bible does not need to mention every detail. The lack of mention of sedimentation and deposition does not mean that it did not happen, since that always happens in large, powerful floods.

Whether we like it or not, Gen 2.14 identifies the PRE-Flood Tigris River in relation to the POST-Flood ancient capital city of Assyria, Ashur.

No; you are ASSUMING that the modern place is the same as the one mentioned in Genesis, because it has the same name. Incidentally, many translations translate it as "Assyria", rather than "Asshur".

 

[TB2]

No; many ASSUMED that the Bible identifies the original Tigris and Euphrates with their modern namesakes.


The Bible does not need to mention every detail. The lack of mention of sedimentation and deposition does not mean that it did not happen, since that always happens in large, powerful floods.


No; you are ASSUMING that the modern place is the same as the one mentioned in Genesis, because it has the same name. Incidentally, many translations translate it as "Assyria", rather than "Asshur".

The Hebrew is Ashur. The same word for the ancient capital city of Ashur (from which Assyria gets it name) is the same Hebrew word translated Assyria. Either way---Ashur or Assyria--the Pre-Flood Tigris River is identified in relation to a Post-Flood city or country!

 

[EarlyActs]

Here is the bibliography of my 2016 novel DELUGE OF SUSPICIONS at Amazon.







DELUGE OF

SUSPICIONS

Life is as unpredictable as ancient geology



A short novel by Marcus Sanford

Amazon.com



Combined Background Resources and Glossary

Marcus Sanford, [email protected]





Ager, D. THE NATURE OF THE STRATIGRAPHICAL PROCESS. A peer scientist disputes Lyell's basis for uniformitarianism by evidence about rapid deposition and the Epeiric sea over north America.



Ager, D. NEW CATASTROPHISM.



Armour, R. North American Indian Fairy Tales, Folklore and Legends, (1905). Ojibwe legend of Nanabohzo.



Appearance of Design. The recognition even by Dawkins that the earth and its occupants seem to be here and formed to be here by design.



Baugh, C. PRE-FLOOD ARTIFACT DEVASTATES UNIFORMITARIANISM. Youtube. A hammer made of sophisticated metal from England in a 'strata' where it does not 'belong.'



Baugh, C. THE WORLD AND MANKIND BEFORE THE FLOOD. Youtube. “Bizz-artifacts” of the ancient world re longevity, giantism.



Baumgardner, J. CATASTROPHIC PLATE TECTONICS; the key to understanding the Genesis Flood. Youtube.



"Biblical-Type Floods Are Real, and They're Absolutely Enormous" DiscoverMagazine.com. 2012-08-29.



Boudreaux. NEW THEORY FOR THE PRE-FLOOD CANOPY re sugilite, a trace mineral found all over the earth's surface. Youtube.



Bretz, J H. 1920s. Geologic catastrophism in connection with Lake Missoula.



Brown, W. (various titles on the deluge and anomalies left around the world by it, but usually written apart from tectonic theory). Former DOD logistician.



Carbera, Dr. A Peruvian surgeon who located a human skull in tertiary material with dinosaurs.



CENTRALIA THEORY. A newer catastrophic view that the entire central 80% of Australia is a rapid deposit sedimentary zone as part of a global event.

​

Chima Channels, Peru. Advanced water supply systems that moved water 150 miles in 'primitive' times.



Clark, E. INDIAN LEGENDS OF THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST. One of the best collections. The great flood is a frequent subject.



Clemens, J. Research on granitic magmatism. Geologist Association of London.



Coconino. The layer of sandstone at Grand Canyon that is from northeast north America.



Cooper, B. AFTER THE FLOOD.



CREATION. A recent production about the domestic and social factors that mattered while Darwin wrote ORIGINS.



Creationwiki.com. 8700 articles.



Crone, B. IN THE DAYS OF NOAH. Giants, Ancient Technology and Noah's Ark. Part 2: A Glorious Civilization. A very complete collection of archeological and geological anomalies, however, some examples did not have to do with the Genesis flood as such, simply other artefact anomalies.



DARWIN'S DILEMMA. Illustra Media. Even with a major flaw in the system, Darwin proceeded—or could not stop Huxley from pushing it out to the public now that the theory had “geological” support from Lyell and Hutton.



Dona, K. ARTEFACTS FROM PRE-FLOOD WORLD & FALLEN ANGELS. Pres. By Habsburg Haus curator. Youtube. “Bizz-artefacts” of the ancient world.



Epeiric Sea. The worldwide ancient sea as referred to in scientific literature, to which Pangaea (one single continent) was the counterpart.



Farellian Law of Chance. 1:1 (50th) is the point of impossibility. Most of the critical doctrines of evolution and uniformitarianism are dependent on much less favorable odds.



FINDING NOAH. Oct.8.2015 limited screening documentary.



Geo-mythology. The science of connecting ancient myth to its location's fossils or artefacts.



Giem, P. IS PLUTO YOUNG? Youtube.



GILGAMESH EPIC. Babylonian flood account as part of a search for eternal life after offending a female deity. Only Utnapushtim has eternal life; he responded to deity instructions to build a huge ship, titled The Preserver of Life, and survive a flood that would otherwise destroy all life. He took his family, village craftsmen, and baby

animals.



Guthrie. FROZEN FAUNA... Research on the plant life around the time and place of the huge numbers of frozen mammoths.



Hancock, G. FINGERPRINTS OF THE GODS. Former ECONOMIST correspondent compiles all the archeological and geological anomalies which orthodox science simply won't mention in public.



Haynes. MAMMOTHS... Research on the thousands of mammoths in permafrost.



Hovind, K. FLOOD OF NOAH. Youtube. Hundreds of flood legends around the world. Hovind tends to wander off topic.



Hovind, K. THOUSANDS OF DRAGON LEGENDS AROUND THE WORLD. Youtube. Hovind tends to wander off topic.



Howorth, 1887. Early research on mammoths unable to explain the huge numbers found in permafrost.



Hippolytus. Ancient Greek historian who described worldwide flood as consisting of water from below, and fire and earthquakes.



James-Griffiths, P. TRACING GENESIS THROUGH ANCIENT CULTURE. Youtube. Extensive and well-illustrated comparative legend and literature. Two British antiquities curators explain why Genesis is the literary source of the numerous world accounts of cataclysms.



Jenkins Collection. A huge collection of Naszca materials that was extremely difficult to access for many years. See Naval Observatory of Peru.



Job 9. 'God moves and overturns mountains.'



Johnson, C. THE PRE-FLOOD WORLD: CREATION AND CANOPY. Youtube.



Langdell. Doctor of Law appointed at Harvard in 1879 primarily because he used ORIGIN OF SPECIES concepts and language to reshape American law.



LIVING WATERS. See nrbtv (Direct 378). This is a rich photoessay against several aspects of Darwinism.



Lewis, C. S. GOD IN THE DOCK. Among these essays, besides the one featured here, “The Myth That Became Fact” is a complete statement as to why we should expect near-replica accounts from all the ancient cultures that are 'memories' of what actually happened. Simply for the reason that it actually happened!



Lyell. Mid-1800s scientist who developed the idea of uniformitarianism 'to free geology from Moses.'

​

THE MAN WHO FOUND TIME. Re Hutton (mid-1700s) and the first attempts to state the view that there are vast amounts of time manifested on earth.



Mayr, E. THE NATURE OF THE DARWINIAN REVOLUTION.



Mayor, A. Folklorist and geomythologist. Her hypothesis was that seashells and marine fossils found inland and on mountains inspired worldwide flood legends.



Mial, A. (research on failures of uniformitariansm) Springer International Publishing.



Naval Observatory of Peru. One of the current locations of the former Jenkins collections of Nazsca stones and artefacts, along with the Aeronautical Museum of Peru.



National Geographic Society. (100 mammoths at Hot Springs, South Dakota).



Noa A Gomshi. Translation: Noah's Huge Boat. The local name for the Ararat area.



Noorberger, R. SECRETS OF THE LOST RACES. Peruvian and other evidence shows a very different world before a global deluge.



NOVA. Making North America. Nov. 2015. The usual uniformitarianism but only about north America and its dinosaurs. Metal particles sprayed around when an asteroid struck. “Every layer we see used to be the surface of the earth” in perfectly predictable order (!).



Nurre, P. EGYPTIAN CHRONOLOGY AND THE BIBLE. Nwcreation.net. Comparing new archeology with Biblical record.

 

[EarlyActs]

The above post is A--M. Here is O--Z












Oard, M. THE LAKE MISSOULA FLOOD. Nwcreation.net Seattle creation conference 2015. This event echos the Genesis flood and demonstrates what happens when a half-continent floods.



Oard, M. WHAT HAPPENED TO WOOLLY MAMMOTHS? Nwcreation.net Seattle creation conference 2015. Newest research on the thousands of mammoths frozen upright in permafrost, 'drowning' in loess.



Ocucaje village. Peruvian village where many of the sketched burial stones were found. Samples of methods of preserving human flesh. Excavated in 1950 by Solde. Patination confirmed by the University of Bonn.



Opisthotonic. The feature of many fossils which appear to have been pressed, flattened, or smashed by abrupt overwhelming force against a rock surface.



Physico-theologians. Those pastors and professors in the 1800s who believed God originated and sustained each organism on a micro level, but not in a pantheistic

sense. 'In all life Thou livest / the true life of all.' Sometimes the view sounded quaint, but it was sheer skepticism and a desire for another outcome, not facts, that ridiculed it.



Pluto's mountains. A critical dating item which has lead in part to removing Pluto from the planet list because they are 'too young.'



Prescott, W. THE CONQUEST OF PERU. Early data on advanced civilization and young creation.



Psalm 104. The creation psalm with a few verses on the deluge, if not on Gen 1:2.



Psalm 136. The earth is set on top of water.



SATAPATHA BRAHMANA. The Hindu version of the great flood. The 1st man Manu is warned of impending flood and advised to build a giant boat.



Schaeffer, F. GENESIS IN SPACE AND TIME. A bit dated on some information, but mentioned the extensive accounts of massive flooding among South American peoples.



Siccar Point, Scotland. This site is contested as a clinching site by both uniformitarians and Biblical creation/deluge believers.



Silvestru, E. GEOLOGY AND DEEP TIME. Youtube. Vertical tectonics, rapid sedimentary deposits by a highly-trained ex-uniformitarian.



SHA NAQBA IMURU. Ancient Bablylonian text containing GILGAMESH EPIC. The title means “He who saw the deep.” (Deep = the unfathomable waters, oceans).



Snelling, A. WORLDWIDE FLOOD; GEOLOGIC EVIDENCE. Youtube. Demonstrates some calculations of how hundreds of feet of sediment could have been transferred 2000 miles.



Steno, N. Mid-1600s 'father of geology' and his Biblical basis.



Stratigraphy. The 'account' of earth history in the layers or strata of geology.



Superfault. A location where the mantle is known to have buckled between 100-10,000 meters in one moment.



Tihuanaca, Peru. Gateway to the Sun construction; metal staples to connect massive stones; temples similar to those in Cambodia; earthquake protection that has worked; universal ethnicity in the facial carvings; jade used in carvings is from China.



Timeaus. Plato's account of a flood over the whole earth. A Titan named

Prometheus tells Deucalion it is coming, who prepares and survives it.



Titikaka., Peru. Native boats memorialize sea-monster accounts.



Tolmachoff. 1929. Studies on woolly mammoths as anomalies.



Vereshagin. MAMMOTH CEMETERIES. Research on cause of death of thousands of mammoths in permafrost.



Uniformitarianism. The view that there has been no creation of or interaction by a deity (god) with our universe. It is entirely a matter of ordinary scientific laws and events.



Walker, T. (THE GENESIS DELUGE). Nwcreation.net Seattle creation conference 2015. Worldwide samples of tectonic upheaval and sedimentary transfer.



Walker, T. MEGA-CATASTROPHE. Nwcreation.net Seattle creation conference 2015.



Wallace, A. NEW THOUGHTS ON EVOLUTION. 1910 critique of where it was headed. Material on Haeckl.



Waltke, B. CREATION AND CHAOS. Study of ancient near east legend to show how Genesis 1's mission is to declare that the LORD is the redemptive-creator.



Ward. CALL OF THE DISTANT MOUNTAINS. Research on the anomalies of woolly mammoths.



Wikipedia. Final introductory quote about Genesis flood: “A world-wide deluge, such as described in Genesis, is incompatible with modern understanding of the natural history and especially geology and paleontology.” (!)



Wilberforce, W. English politician and evangelical Christian who helped end slavery in England in the early 1800s and wrote a criticism of upper class life and Christianity for its attempt to preserve slavery. To preserve race superiority, evolutionary doctrines were accepted, on both sides of the Channel.



Woodman. NASZCA; JOURNEY TO THE SEA. The scope of their balloon technology was similar to Kon Tiki and the sea.



Ziusudra Epic. Sumerian. The preflood kings lived enormous life spans. After the flood their lifespan is normal.











Scope of work video: ‘All Lives Matter – Marcus Sanford’ youtube.com

 

[TB2]

The above post is A--M. Here is O--Z












Oard, M. THE LAKE MISSOULA FLOOD. Nwcreation.net Seattle creation conference 2015. This event echos the Genesis flood and demonstrates what happens when a half-continent floods.



Oard, M. WHAT HAPPENED TO WOOLLY MAMMOTHS? Nwcreation.net Seattle creation conference 2015. Newest research on the thousands of mammoths frozen upright in permafrost, 'drowning' in loess.



Ocucaje village. Peruvian village where many of the sketched burial stones were found. Samples of methods of preserving human flesh. Excavated in 1950 by Solde. Patination confirmed by the University of Bonn.



Opisthotonic. The feature of many fossils which appear to have been pressed, flattened, or smashed by abrupt overwhelming force against a rock surface.



Physico-theologians. Those pastors and professors in the 1800s who believed God originated and sustained each organism on a micro level, but not in a pantheistic

sense. 'In all life Thou livest / the true life of all.' Sometimes the view sounded quaint, but it was sheer skepticism and a desire for another outcome, not facts, that ridiculed it.



Pluto's mountains. A critical dating item which has lead in part to removing Pluto from the planet list because they are 'too young.'



Prescott, W. THE CONQUEST OF PERU. Early data on advanced civilization and young creation.



Psalm 104. The creation psalm with a few verses on the deluge, if not on Gen 1:2.



Psalm 136. The earth is set on top of water.



SATAPATHA BRAHMANA. The Hindu version of the great flood. The 1st man Manu is warned of impending flood and advised to build a giant boat.



Schaeffer, F. GENESIS IN SPACE AND TIME. A bit dated on some information, but mentioned the extensive accounts of massive flooding among South American peoples.



Siccar Point, Scotland. This site is contested as a clinching site by both uniformitarians and Biblical creation/deluge believers.



Silvestru, E. GEOLOGY AND DEEP TIME. Youtube. Vertical tectonics, rapid sedimentary deposits by a highly-trained ex-uniformitarian.



SHA NAQBA IMURU. Ancient Bablylonian text containing GILGAMESH EPIC. The title means “He who saw the deep.” (Deep = the unfathomable waters, oceans).



Snelling, A. WORLDWIDE FLOOD; GEOLOGIC EVIDENCE. Youtube. Demonstrates some calculations of how hundreds of feet of sediment could have been transferred 2000 miles.



Steno, N. Mid-1600s 'father of geology' and his Biblical basis.



Stratigraphy. The 'account' of earth history in the layers or strata of geology.



Superfault. A location where the mantle is known to have buckled between 100-10,000 meters in one moment.



Tihuanaca, Peru. Gateway to the Sun construction; metal staples to connect massive stones; temples similar to those in Cambodia; earthquake protection that has worked; universal ethnicity in the facial carvings; jade used in carvings is from China.



Timeaus. Plato's account of a flood over the whole earth. A Titan named

Prometheus tells Deucalion it is coming, who prepares and survives it.



Titikaka., Peru. Native boats memorialize sea-monster accounts.



Tolmachoff. 1929. Studies on woolly mammoths as anomalies.



Vereshagin. MAMMOTH CEMETERIES. Research on cause of death of thousands of mammoths in permafrost.



Uniformitarianism. The view that there has been no creation of or interaction by a deity (god) with our universe. It is entirely a matter of ordinary scientific laws and events.



Walker, T. (THE GENESIS DELUGE). Nwcreation.net Seattle creation conference 2015. Worldwide samples of tectonic upheaval and sedimentary transfer.



Walker, T. MEGA-CATASTROPHE. Nwcreation.net Seattle creation conference 2015.



Wallace, A. NEW THOUGHTS ON EVOLUTION. 1910 critique of where it was headed. Material on Haeckl.



Waltke, B. CREATION AND CHAOS. Study of ancient near east legend to show how Genesis 1's mission is to declare that the LORD is the redemptive-creator.



Ward. CALL OF THE DISTANT MOUNTAINS. Research on the anomalies of woolly mammoths.



Wikipedia. Final introductory quote about Genesis flood: “A world-wide deluge, such as described in Genesis, is incompatible with modern understanding of the natural history and especially geology and paleontology.” (!)



Wilberforce, W. English politician and evangelical Christian who helped end slavery in England in the early 1800s and wrote a criticism of upper class life and Christianity for its attempt to preserve slavery. To preserve race superiority, evolutionary doctrines were accepted, on both sides of the Channel.



Woodman. NASZCA; JOURNEY TO THE SEA. The scope of their balloon technology was similar to Kon Tiki and the sea.



Ziusudra Epic. Sumerian. The preflood kings lived enormous life spans. After the flood their lifespan is normal.











Scope of work video: ‘All Lives Matter – Marcus Sanford’ youtube.com

I encourage you to read the book I suggested and then see if you still hold to this

 

[TB2]

Oh. I have a few hundred questions. My research bibliography in my novel DELUGE OF SUSPICIONS is 6 pages, less than half sourced by Christians. I will share it later. I was traveling back on a family emergency and still don't feel settled.

As a pastor friend with a Ph.D. would ask: what hydrological conditions existed to make ____ this happen? Let's try the word 'opisthotonics in the Rockies.' Go.

The fossil record contradicts the hydrological sorting and ecological zonation theory.

 

[EarlyActs]

I encourage you to read the book I suggested and then see if you still hold to this

What is “this”?

“The” single book. I just listed piles and you think it should hinge on one book. Sounds like undersampling to me.

With the evidence of giantism and bizarre entities worldwide, and even evidence of the evil of them, why do insist against a 2Peter3-sized global judgement event that was hydrological? Why do you have nothing about the views of Pelegríni, not even the refutation as to the speed of movement?

Why don’t you have anything coordinating the Alaska statement and the event and effects listed as the breaking of the fountains of the deep?

You see, I used to understand granitics as maybe unrelated, Bc no hydrology was involved. Then I read Ager. ‘Yosemite could form in 6 hours’! Well I live by Lynne Canal, Tracy Arm and boated under Whistler. There are these kinds of granitic all over. Since they can be sudden, I turned my attention back to those places where hydrology would be the key factor.

Grand, Columbia, 4 Corners, Ayer’s Rock, were all massive hydrologic events from which we only see the remnant now. I mean events no smaller than half of a continent involved. They are are not accumulating, they are what managed to remain under huge pressures.

Which means there are side effects all over. Like blowing up a side of Mt St Helens—it will make destruction hundreds of miles yonder.

 

[EarlyActs]

One other book I collected recently was a geologic hiking guide for WA state. The back cover says the entire surface of earth was radically altered a few thousand ago. It is sold at national parks.

As I read I noticed the authors Could explain everything if the range of time was the minimum doubled. Ex 100K to 200K. In a way this became hilarious. It was called complete and intelligent and conclusive. I wish I could do that at the bank.

I realized the thing that was bugging me. In any other crime investigation, the most recent aspect is the most reliable. But in geology they would talk like the Ms of years ago are as reliable as the 10s. I think that is arrogant and inappropriate. Even worse when they give themselves permission to be mistaken by 50%!

 

[TB2]

What is “this”?

“The” single book. I just listed piles and you think it should hinge on one book. Sounds like undersampling to me.

With the evidence of giantism and bizarre entities worldwide, and even evidence of the evil of them, why do insist against a 2Peter3-sized global judgement event that was hydrological? Why do you have nothing about the views of Pelegríni, not even the refutation as to the speed of movement?

Why don’t you have anything coordinating the Alaska statement and the event and effects listed as the breaking of the fountains of the deep?

You see, I used to understand granitics as maybe unrelated, Bc no hydrology was involved. Then I read Ager. ‘Yosemite could form in 6 hours’! Well I live by Lynne Canal, Tracy Arm and boated under Whistler. There are these kinds of granitic all over. Since they can be sudden, I turned my attention back to those places where hydrology would be the key factor.

Grand, Columbia, 4 Corners, Ayer’s Rock, were all massive hydrologic events from which we only see the remnant now. I mean events no smaller than half of a continent involved. They are are not accumulating, they are what managed to remain under huge pressures.

Which means there are side effects all over. Like blowing up a side of Mt St Helens—it will make destruction hundreds of miles yonder.

Thank you for your list. I haven't had the opportunity to thoroughly review it yet. I was just re-recommending the book to you. It contains numerous citations like your list. I will have to go through your list. You can check out the book I recommend with the citations contained in it. And then we can compare notes and discuss what we think together. Sound good?

 

[TB2]

I realized the thing that was bugging me. In any other crime investigation, the most recent aspect is the most reliable. But in geology they would talk like the Ms of years ago are as reliable as the 10s. I think that is arrogant and inappropriate. Even worse when they give themselves permission to be mistaken by 50%!

Don't know what you mean by mistaken by 50%. Modern geology is a highly refined, highly sophisticated science. Field observations are correlated with thousands of experiments in labs similar to forensic science. There is no 'arrogance' in conclusions. And all conclusions are tentative and can be modified with additional data. Like any scientific field, conclusions are not concrete set in stone, nor are they all-or-none conclusions. Any conclusion is in degrees of certainty from extremely certain, very, somewhat certain, moderate, tentative to less certain, uncertain and speculative. Conclusions run the gamut range of degrees of certainty.