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Why are they called Hebrews?

I've also read that the Gen 14 naming (not in connection to the genealogy) may be from a connection to the city Hebron which was east of the Jordan, possibly Nabatean.
That is an interesting connection, although, Hebron is west of the Jordan river, south of Jerusalem. According to Judges 1:10 it was previously named, Kirjatharba.
 
You have to realize that to say the land promise matters at the time put you in the league of the zealots and their rebellion against Rome. That is why the land does not matter, in a streetwise sense.

But theologically, God did not reneg because Joshua said twice that all the promise was fulfilled. When David came that promise was fulfilled. That's why neither factor in the official sermon to a synagogue in Acts 13. In fact Paul quotes an Isaiah verse about the transfer of David's to Christ and sees it as fulfilled in the resurrection, which demonstrates that Acts 2:30 was truly about the resurrection not a future kingdom, as the grammar has it.

Then in speaking of the res in Acts 13, he says that all things promised to the patriarchs are fulfilled. If this were not the case (if the resurrection had not superceded), there would have been no after issue with the Jews there, which there was.

This is why Gal 3 does not mention the land; there are not 2 programs going on in the Bible, like Ryrie taught in DISPENSATIONALISM TODAY, there is just one. IF there were two, there would be no conflict between Judaism and Christian faith, but of course there is.

Heb 11 does not mention the land for the same 2 reasons; one that it is totally inappropriate in that generation to put yourself on the side of the zealots and the risks that involved, and a believer had to expect persecution by the zealots not complicity with them! And two because the chapter says twice that the believers never where looking for a land here on earth even though they had it for the sake of the location of Israel in being a hub of 3 continents, for the sake of evangelism. If you can't find these verses, you are missing the pulse of Heb 11. Likewise in Gal 3.

Any normal reading of Gal 3 is that the promise was the opportunity to be Messiah's evangelists to the world. This is why the analogy or allegory is drawn from Isaiah in Gal 4 'shout aloud barren woman' (the believers).

That the land promises matter, puts me in the league of those who believe the Bible. Your 'streetwise sense' doesn't matter.

God's promise of the land was forever. Thus it is never fulfilled until Israel maintains control over it forever. Thus the promise of the land did not end with Joshua or David.

(Gen. 13:15) "For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed forever."

(Gen. 17:7-8) "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generatins for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to they seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God.

(Gal. 3) does not mention the land because the land was not the subject.

You say (Heb. 11) does not mention the land. Then you say (Heb. 11) 'says twice' that believers never were looking for a land on earth. No, (Heb. 11) does not say Abraham was not looking for a land here on earth. It says they looked for a city, a country, whose Builder and Maker is God. (Heb. 11:10) (Heb. 11:16)

Lees
 
That the land promises matter, puts me in the league of those who believe the Bible. Your 'streetwise sense' doesn't matter.

God's promise of the land was forever. Thus it is never fulfilled until Israel maintains control over it forever. Thus the promise of the land did not end with Joshua or David.

(Gen. 13:15) "For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed forever."

(Gen. 17:7-8) "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generatins for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to they seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God.

(Gal. 3) does not mention the land because the land was not the subject.

You say (Heb. 11) does not mention the land. Then you say (Heb. 11) 'says twice' that believers never were looking for a land on earth. No, (Heb. 11) does not say Abraham was not looking for a land here on earth. It says they looked for a city, a country, whose Builder and Maker is God. (Heb. 11:10) (Heb. 11:16)

Lees
There are many studies about how the term forever is certainly past all our lifespans but not eternal; otherwise the earth would have to be inn succession, and there are cities that were cursed ‘forever’ and destroyed from ancient times which are in use today.
 
That the land promises matter, puts me in the league of those who believe the Bible. Your 'streetwise sense' doesn't matter.

God's promise of the land was forever. Thus it is never fulfilled until Israel maintains control over it forever. Thus the promise of the land did not end with Joshua or David.

(Gen. 13:15) "For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed forever."

(Gen. 17:7-8) "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generatins for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to they seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God.

(Gal. 3) does not mention the land because the land was not the subject.

You say (Heb. 11) does not mention the land. Then you say (Heb. 11) 'says twice' that believers never were looking for a land on earth. No, (Heb. 11) does not say Abraham was not looking for a land here on earth. It says they looked for a city, a country, whose Builder and Maker is God. (Heb. 11:10) (Heb. 11:16)

Lees


The streetwise element was extremely important to the zealots who believed the land promise was successive like the Maccabbees.
 
That the land promises matter, puts me in the league of those who believe the Bible. Your 'streetwise sense' doesn't matter.

God's promise of the land was forever. Thus it is never fulfilled until Israel maintains control over it forever. Thus the promise of the land did not end with Joshua or David.

(Gen. 13:15) "For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed forever."

(Gen. 17:7-8) "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generatins for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to they seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God.

(Gal. 3) does not mention the land because the land was not the subject.

You say (Heb. 11) does not mention the land. Then you say (Heb. 11) 'says twice' that believers never were looking for a land on earth. No, (Heb. 11) does not say Abraham was not looking for a land here on earth. It says they looked for a city, a country, whose Builder and Maker is God. (Heb. 11:10) (Heb. 11:16)

Lees
Re Gal 3
If you know Isiah and treat it like Paul you will see that the land is out of the picture bc the servants were to take Messiahs message to the islands and distant shores. Hard to do from one spot!

The promised Spirit always was the promise as Gal 3 says so that they could do this task in his power.

It then shows that the true Jerusalem is above, like Heb 12. we are not like the rabbi who claimed to have found a stone in the King David Hotel bombing rubble that had the term cornerstone on it. Christ is the cornerstone, 1 P 2, Eph 2-3
 
That the land promises matter, puts me in the league of those who believe the Bible. Your 'streetwise sense' doesn't matter.

God's promise of the land was forever. Thus it is never fulfilled until Israel maintains control over it forever. Thus the promise of the land did not end with Joshua or David.

(Gen. 13:15) "For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed forever."

(Gen. 17:7-8) "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generatins for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to they seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God.

(Gal. 3) does not mention the land because the land was not the subject.

You say (Heb. 11) does not mention the land. Then you say (Heb. 11) 'says twice' that believers never were looking for a land on earth. No, (Heb. 11) does not say Abraham was not looking for a land here on earth. It says they looked for a city, a country, whose Builder and Maker is God. (Heb. 11:10) (Heb. 11:16)

Lees

All these people arrived at the places God wanted but it was not ever the Jerusalem above. Of ch 12-13, where we (Hebrews) are warned not to be carried astray by all sorts of strange teachings.

The main thing is that Acts 2:30 is clearly about the current enthronement of Christ, making similar claims in ch 3 and 4 so forceful.
 
There are many studies about how the term forever is certainly past all our lifespans but not eternal; otherwise the earth would have to be inn succession, and there are cities that were cursed ‘forever’ and destroyed from ancient times which are in use today.

What a confession. You don't believe what the Bible says. Forever doesn't mean forever. Everlasting doesn't mean everlasting.

The streetwise element was extremely important to the zealots who believed the land promise was successive like the Maccabbees.

Again, your 'streetwise' element is silly. The promises were to Abraham and his seed.
Re Gal 3
If you know Isiah and treat it like Paul you will see that the land is out of the picture bc the servants were to take Messiahs message to the islands and distant shores. Hard to do from one spot!

The promised Spirit always was the promise as Gal 3 says so that they could do this task in his power.

It then shows that the true Jerusalem is above, like Heb 12. we are not like the rabbi who claimed to have found a stone in the King David Hotel bombing rubble that had the term cornerstone on it. Christ is the cornerstone, 1 P 2, Eph 2-3

Again, (Gal. 3) is not addressing the land promise. Because the land promise is to Israel, not the Gentiles.
All these people arrived at the places God wanted but it was not ever the Jerusalem above. Of ch 12-13, where we (Hebrews) are warned not to be carried astray by all sorts of strange teachings.

The main thing is that Acts 2:30 is clearly about the current enthronement of Christ, making similar claims in ch 3 and 4 so forceful.

Point being, the Jerusalem from above comes down to earth. (Rev. 21:2) Just because it comes down to earth, doesn't mean it isn't a 'heavenly city'. It most certainly is. That is the city whose foundations and Builder and Maker is God. (Heb. 11:10)

The 'main thing' at this point, is that the land promises to Abraham are eternal and still in play.

Lees
 
Re Gal 3
If you know Isiah and treat it like Paul you will see that the land is out of the picture bc the servants were to take Messiahs message to the islands and distant shores. Hard to do from one spot!

The promised Spirit always was the promise as Gal 3 says so that they could do this task in his power.

It then shows that the true Jerusalem is above, like Heb 12. we are not like the rabbi who claimed to have found a stone in the King David Hotel bombing rubble that had the term cornerstone on it. Christ is the cornerstone, 1 P 2, Eph 2-3

Clarification: “it” in the last paragraph is Galatians. No one reading Gal 3-4 or Rom 15 or Acts 13 or Eph 2-3 would ever think the land was meant in the old sense anymore. It’s not even meant by Rom 11’s “saved.” Neither by Isaiah nor by Paul.

It’s not a replacement bc the Abrahamic vision cited by the NT is that the Seed would bless all nations. Rom 4, 9-11, Gal 3, Acts 3.
 
What a confession. You don't believe what the Bible says. Forever doesn't mean forever. Everlasting doesn't mean everlasting.



Again, your 'streetwise' element is silly. The promises were to Abraham and his seed.


Again, (Gal. 3) is not addressing the land promise. Because the land promise is to Israel, not the Gentiles.


Point being, the Jerusalem from above comes down to earth. (Rev. 21:2) Just because it comes down to earth, doesn't mean it isn't a 'heavenly city'. It most certainly is. That is the city whose foundations and Builder and Maker is God. (Heb. 11:10)

The 'main thing' at this point, is that the land promises to Abraham are eternal and still in play.

Lees

Just showed the inadequacy of English for a Hebrew concept. What is your specific question?

The same issue happens many times using Hebrew.
 
What a confession. You don't believe what the Bible says. Forever doesn't mean forever. Everlasting doesn't mean everlasting.



Again, your 'streetwise' element is silly. The promises were to Abraham and his seed.


Again, (Gal. 3) is not addressing the land promise. Because the land promise is to Israel, not the Gentiles.


Point being, the Jerusalem from above comes down to earth. (Rev. 21:2) Just because it comes down to earth, doesn't mean it isn't a 'heavenly city'. It most certainly is. That is the city whose foundations and Builder and Maker is God. (Heb. 11:10)

The 'main thing' at this point, is that the land promises to Abraham are eternal and still in play.

Lees
One topic per post please.

Re the Seed.
The Seed is Christ, that is one person. Gal 3:15+. Through Christ (not through genealogy or land), this is many.

Way to butcher Gal 3!
 
What a confession. You don't believe what the Bible says. Forever doesn't mean forever. Everlasting doesn't mean everlasting.



Again, your 'streetwise' element is silly. The promises were to Abraham and his seed.


Again, (Gal. 3) is not addressing the land promise. Because the land promise is to Israel, not the Gentiles.


Point being, the Jerusalem from above comes down to earth. (Rev. 21:2) Just because it comes down to earth, doesn't mean it isn't a 'heavenly city'. It most certainly is. That is the city whose foundations and Builder and Maker is God. (Heb. 11:10)

The 'main thing' at this point, is that the land promises to Abraham are eternal and still in play.

Lees

Re streetwise.
Nothing silly about it. The core issue , life and death, in Judea in that generation was whether to freedom-fight for Israel with the zealots, or to be a missionary for Christ. Increasingly, it would cost you your life in Judea if you did NOT side with the fanatic zealots.

If you don’t know this , you need to completely start over on NT history, issues, tensions, views of Dan 9 which predict it, etc. I have a book on it but am prohibited from referring to it.
 
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Just showed the inadequacy of English for a Hebrew concept. What is your specific question?

The same issue happens many times using Hebrew.

No, you showed you don't believe what the Bible says.

Of course, manipulation of the Scripture happens many times by wordsmiths attempting to pervert Scripture through some Greek or Hebrew 'knowledge'. Just makes one wonder, if the Jews knew Hebrew, how did they miss Jesus then, and still miss Him?

Paul's knowledge of Hebrew didn't bring him to the Truth.

No, there is no inadequacy in the translation of 'forever' and 'everlasting'. Just your unbelief.

One topic per post please.

Re the Seed.
The Seed is Christ, that is one person. Gal 3:15+. Through Christ (not through genealogy or land), this is many.

Way to butcher Gal 3!

You're the one creating multple posts, not me.

Concerning the Seed, of course it pertains to Christ. but it pertains to Abrahams seed also resulting in Christ. (Gen. 17:19) "And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and though shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. " You see? Isaac is Abraham's seed. Jacob will be Isaac's seed. The Jews are the seed of Abraham.

I didn't butcher (Gal. 3). (Galatians) is written to a Gentile church. The land promise of the Abrahamic covenant does not pertain to them.

Re streetwise.
Nothing silly about it. The core issue , life and death, in Judea in that generation was whether to freedom-fight for Israel with the zealots, or to be a missionary for Christ. Increasingly, it would cost you your life in Judea if you did NOT side with the fanatic zealots.

If you don’t know this , you need to completely start over on NT history, issues, tensions, views of Dan 9 which predict it, etc. I have a book on it but am prohibited from referring to it.

Again, 'streetwise' has nothing to do with anything. The everlasting promise of the land was to Abraham and his seed for ever. (Gen. 13:15) "For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to they seed for ever."

(Gen. 17:7-8) "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Cannan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

All the Jews who believe the promise of the land to Abraham and his seed forever, are not street wise. They are Biblical wise.

Lees
 
No, you showed you don't believe what the Bible says.

Of course, manipulation of the Scripture happens many times by wordsmiths attempting to pervert Scripture through some Greek or Hebrew 'knowledge'. Just makes one wonder, if the Jews knew Hebrew, how did they miss Jesus then, and still miss Him?

Paul's knowledge of Hebrew didn't bring him to the Truth.

No, there is no inadequacy in the translation of 'forever' and 'everlasting'. Just your unbelief.



You're the one creating multple posts, not me.

Concerning the Seed, of course it pertains to Christ. but it pertains to Abrahams seed also resulting in Christ. (Gen. 17:19) "And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and though shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. " You see? Isaac is Abraham's seed. Jacob will be Isaac's seed. The Jews are the seed of Abraham.

I didn't butcher (Gal. 3). (Galatians) is written to a Gentile church. The land promise of the Abrahamic covenant does not pertain to them.



Again, 'streetwise' has nothing to do with anything. The everlasting promise of the land was to Abraham and his seed for ever. (Gen. 13:15) "For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to they seed for ever."

(Gen. 17:7-8) "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Cannan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

All the Jews who believe the promise of the land to Abraham and his seed forever, are not street wise. They are Biblical wise.

Lees


re Hebrew
The thing is that there are cities that were destroyed 'forever' and they are active today.

And then there is 2 Peter 3. It says nothing about Israel in its land, and the whole universe is consumed in fire and then appears in another form.

[This post is what I mean by one topic per post, not one post with many topics!]
 
No, you showed you don't believe what the Bible says.

Of course, manipulation of the Scripture happens many times by wordsmiths attempting to pervert Scripture through some Greek or Hebrew 'knowledge'. Just makes one wonder, if the Jews knew Hebrew, how did they miss Jesus then, and still miss Him?

Paul's knowledge of Hebrew didn't bring him to the Truth.

No, there is no inadequacy in the translation of 'forever' and 'everlasting'. Just your unbelief.



You're the one creating multple posts, not me.

Concerning the Seed, of course it pertains to Christ. but it pertains to Abrahams seed also resulting in Christ. (Gen. 17:19) "And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and though shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. " You see? Isaac is Abraham's seed. Jacob will be Isaac's seed. The Jews are the seed of Abraham.

I didn't butcher (Gal. 3). (Galatians) is written to a Gentile church. The land promise of the Abrahamic covenant does not pertain to them.



Again, 'streetwise' has nothing to do with anything. The everlasting promise of the land was to Abraham and his seed for ever. (Gen. 13:15) "For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to they seed for ever."

(Gen. 17:7-8) "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Cannan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

All the Jews who believe the promise of the land to Abraham and his seed forever, are not street wise. They are Biblical wise.

Lees

There is no manipulation. The NT intreprets the OT. If the NT doesn't follow a thought, then it is not a NT thought. Remember, Jesus explained all this for 40 days, and there was nothing about being in the land during all that.
 
No, you showed you don't believe what the Bible says.

Of course, manipulation of the Scripture happens many times by wordsmiths attempting to pervert Scripture through some Greek or Hebrew 'knowledge'. Just makes one wonder, if the Jews knew Hebrew, how did they miss Jesus then, and still miss Him?

Paul's knowledge of Hebrew didn't bring him to the Truth.

No, there is no inadequacy in the translation of 'forever' and 'everlasting'. Just your unbelief.



You're the one creating multple posts, not me.

Concerning the Seed, of course it pertains to Christ. but it pertains to Abrahams seed also resulting in Christ. (Gen. 17:19) "And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and though shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. " You see? Isaac is Abraham's seed. Jacob will be Isaac's seed. The Jews are the seed of Abraham.

I didn't butcher (Gal. 3). (Galatians) is written to a Gentile church. The land promise of the Abrahamic covenant does not pertain to them.



Again, 'streetwise' has nothing to do with anything. The everlasting promise of the land was to Abraham and his seed for ever. (Gen. 13:15) "For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to they seed for ever."

(Gen. 17:7-8) "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Cannan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

All the Jews who believe the promise of the land to Abraham and his seed forever, are not street wise. They are Biblical wise.

Lees


Paul has nothing about the land promise that you are talking about, you know. In Acts 26, he says the Jews are still trying to see the promise fulfilled, but actually it already is fulfilled in the resurrection (Acts 2-4, Rom 1, Acts 13, etc).

His knowledge of Hebrew did help but he functioned in Greek for his target audience. The key line is Gal 3:15 where it is not many people meant by the seed, but the one Seed, Jesus Christ, and those who enter through Him, as is the case all through the NT.
 
@EarlyActs: concerning post #(54)

Why do you not give the Scripture for the cities you speak of? Also, (Jer. 31:35-37) establishes the nation of Israel forever . Concerning the creation God says, "...If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever."

Lots of chapters in the New Testament say nothing about the land. So? The majority of the New Testament is to the Church, not Israel. The promise of the land is not to the Church. The land promise belongs to the national promises to Israel under the Abrahamic Covenant. (Gen. 12:1-2) "...unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation...."

I am just responding to your posts.

Lees
 
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@EarlyActs: concerning post #(55)

Except Jesus came to that land and nation of Israel offering the Kingdom. (Matt. 2:6) "And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel." (Matt. 3:1-3) "In those days came John the Baptist, preachin in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Also (Matt. 4:17)

And, during Christ's temptation by Satan, Satan offerred Him the Kingdoms of the World. (Matt. 4:8-9) Which was an offer against the Kingdom of God, which Christ came to establish on earth, in Israel. Again the national promises to Israel involve the land.

The New Testament does follow the promise of land to national Isrel. The promise of the Kingdom offerred to Israel, involves the land promise of the Abrahamic Covenant. See the Gospels, and especially (Matthew). Also (Rom 9-11).

Lees
 
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@EarlyActs: concerning post #(56)

Paul does talk about the land promises. When he speaks of national Israel he is talking about the land and nation of Israel as promised to Abraham. See (Rom. 9-11). (Rom. 9:4) (Rom. 9:6-10) (Rom. 11:1-2) (Rom. 11:25)

I see why you don't like to give the verses of many of the Bible references you give. Paul in (Acts 26) does not say the Resurrection has fuflilled or negated the promises to Israel. He says Israel is still looking for the fulfillment. (Acts 26:6-7) Israel was not wrong in looking for and anticipating the promises of the land and their nation Israel once again being the 'Kingdom of God'. They were wrong in rejecting their King, Jesus.

Explain your references to (Acts 2-4), (Rom. 1), (Acts 13), how that the land and national promises have been fulfilled in the Resurrection.

Paul's knowledge of Hebrew didn't lead him to Christ. Christ blinding him and knocking him to the earth led him to Christ.

You say concerning (Gal. 3:16), "where it is not many people meant by the seed, but the one Seed, Jesus Christ". By which you discount the seed promise to national Israel. But being the 'One Seed', the fulfillment of the Seed promise, does not discount others counted for the seed as you recognize when you say, "and those who enter through Him".

You don't want to count national Israel as also the seed, but you do count the believing in the Church as the seed.

Lees
 
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In Gal 3, Paul officially structures Israel's history as stages of Promise--Law--Gospel. There is a problem created by the Judaizers, which is that even though the Promise to the nations was before the Law, the Judaizers are 'voiding and displacing' the Promise through the Law. 3:17.
If you look into these verbs, you will see that this is the actual 'replacement' problem of NT theology, not the modern one which makes so many specious claims about modern Israel.

The Judaizers' theology created the zealot movement (Paul refers generically to the problem of 'zeal for the law' in the letter) and that is why these NT letters and docs are seriously dialed in to what is happening in that generation, ie, why they are 'streetwise' about those events.
 
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