Why are so few saved?

[Rella]

I serve Jesus' God, God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob, God of Joseph.

You serve the Roman Empire god.

Grace 2

Are you spirit filled? Can you tell us how you became spirit filled.

 

[Josheb]

This seeming contradiction I already answered back in reply #6.

Alas, Post #6 is not written by @jeremiah1five, and I did not ask you to reconcile disparate question you made. The questions asked in Post #56 were asked of a specific poster specifically because of statement that poster made with the knowledge only that poster can explain his own views, and no one can presume to speak for him, nor should they without his/her explicit consent. Proverbs 26:17

The other poster's posts are not a "seeming" contradiction. They are outright blatant contradictions and only he can explain his views.






Personally, despite there being a few worthy observations, I found there are so many errors in Post #6 (and 59) that it amounts to nonsense, and so egregiously so I didn't find it worth entertaining or discussing. Yes, Jesus was speaking in the first century to a specific audience in attendance at that time but ALL of scripture speaks as a whole with one voice about all to which it speaks. And it is ALL Christological. Jesus' use of "gate" and "road," (and "narrow") are figurative and metaphorical and, therefore, transcend anything specifically temporal, especially since scripture speaks of who is saved in multiple other places. Their use in scripture as idioms for righteousness and/or salvation long precede the first century AND the existence of Jews. Even temporal salvation from temporal conditions (like a pending judgment) serves Christologically (and often eschatologically) to speak of salvation. You don't get to exploit a question asked of someone else about their views to impose your misguided views on that conversation, especially when your own views are so faulty. When I want to know your views on reconciling contradiction you have posted I will ask you and expect others not to presume they can speak on your behalf. I did not ask the other poster to explain himself because I don't understand Mattew 7 and Revelation 19. I asked him to explain his post(s) because he contradicted himself, and not just "seemingly."

 

[jeremiah1five]

How do you reconcile Post #43's "billions more" with Jesus words in Matthew 7?

Matthew 7:13-14
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

According to Jesus there is a comparison wherein few enter the "narrow" gate, but many enter the "wide" gate. Last time I checked "many" was more than "few." How do you reconcile Matthew 7:13-14 with Revelation 7:9 and 19:1 (verses to which I also appealed to show a multitude are saved). The multitude found in heaven in Revelation is so large no one can count it (except, presumably, God) but it still the few in contrast to the many entering the wide gate that leads to destruction. How do you reconcile the claim of "billions more"??



Also, how do you reconcile the assertion the majority of all souls born into the world will be saved with you view Gentiles do not have a covenant with God and the scriptures were written by Jews to Jews about Jews? Is it your expectation the majority of all souls will convert to Judaism and then Christ? According to everything you've ever posted in this forum, most of the souls born into this world have no covenant with God and nothing salvific in scripture was written to or about them. Can you clarify that?

Well, it seems YOU have a contradiction. I don't.
Figure it out.
I've completely resolved it in my mind.
Thank you, Jesus.

 

[Josheb]

Well, it seems YOU have a contradiction. I don't. Figure it out. I've completely resolved it in my mind.
Thank you, Jesus.

I'm not asking about your mind. I am asking about the posts. No one here can read anyone else's mind. What we know is what is posted and what was posted contradicts Matthew 7 so I am assuming you possess either the capacity to explain the disparity in a reconciling manner or self-correct what was posted. Appealing to what is in your mind but not posted for all to read is not helpful or efficacious.

How is Post #43's "billions more" are saved than not saved reconciled with Matthew 7:13-14's few versus many?

How is the assertion "a majority of all souls born into the world" will be saved reconciled with the frequently-posted assertions scripture was written for Jews and Gentiles don't have a covenant relationship with God?​

Nothing unkind is intended. There's no nefarious motive. Those are simply two very valid inquiries given what was posted.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I'm not asking about your mind. I am asking about the posts. No one here can read anyone else's mind. What we know is what is posted and what was posted contradicts Matthew 7 so I am assuming you possess either the capacity to explain the disparity in a reconciling manner or self-correct what was posted. Appealing to what is in your mind but not posted for all to read is not helpful or efficacious.

How is Post #43's "billions more" are saved than not saved reconciled with Matthew 7:13-14's few versus many?​

​

How is the assertion "a majority of all souls born into the world" will be saved reconciled with the frequently-posted assertions scripture was written for Jews and Gentiles don't have a covenant relationship with God?​

Nothing unkind is intended. There's no nefarious motive. Those are simply two very valid inquiries given what was posted.

Ah, but I can read your "heart" which is the same as reading your mind.
The proverbial "heart" doesn't think. It only pumps blood.
God gave the faculty of thinking to the mind, not the "heart", the first thing that becomes saved when we are born again is the mind.

 

[grace2]

Grace 2

Are you spirit filled? Can you tell us how you became spirit filled.

What does this have to do with worshipping a false god?

 

[grace2]

Alert. I am often passive aggressive.

Now that we have that out of the way... WHO is Patience?

Is that clear enough?

Never mind.

It was my mistake.

Are you saying you are Patience?

She is a tongue-speaking non-trin.

they all hate me because I disapprove of tongue-speaking Christians.

I have been making clear my position regarding speaking in tongues too.

 

[CrowCross]

Ah, but I can read your "heart" which is the same as reading your mind.
The proverbial "heart" doesn't think. It only pumps blood.
God gave the faculty of thinking to the mind, not the "heart", the first thing that becomes saved when we are born again is the mind.

Then why did God open Lydias heart first...then use her mind to understand what Paul was saying?

 

[Rella]

Rella said:

Grace 2

Are you spirit filled? Can you tell us how you became spirit filled.

What does this have to do with worshipping a false god?

Well, depending on your views on being Spirit filled with the Holy Spirit or not will tell who is or is not worshipping a false God.

 

[Josheb]

Ah, but I can read your "heart" which is the same as reading your mind.

No, you cannot, and that is not an answer to my questions. Let's try it one more time......

How is Post #43's "billions more" are saved than not saved reconciled with Matthew 7:13-14's few versus many?​

​

How is the assertion "a majority of all souls born into the world" will be saved reconciled with the frequently-posted assertions scripture was written for Jews only and Gentiles don't have a covenant relationship with God?​

Nothing more is asked at this time.

.

 

[grace2]

Rella said:





Well, depending on your views on being Spirit filled with the Holy Spirit or not will tell who is or is not worshipping a false God.

My beef with speaking in tongue non trin is that they focus on speaking in tongue and if you dont speak in tongues you are not spirit filled.

It is so juvinailish gimmicky doctrine.

Just because you claim to speak in tongues does not mean you are spirit-filled.

 

[Rella]

My beef with speaking in tongue non trin is that they focus on speaking in tongue and if you dont speak in tongues you are not spirit filled.

It is so juvinailish gimmicky doctrine.

Just because you claim to speak in tongues does not mean you are spirit-filled.

FYI... there are more then tongues.

1. Words of wisdom;
2. Words of knowledge;
3. Faith;
4. Healings;
5. Working of miracles;
6. Prophecy;
7. Discerning of spirits;
8. Different kinds of tongues; and
9. Interpretation of tongues.

 

[grace2]

FYI... there are more then tongues.

1. Words of wisdom;
2. Words of knowledge;
3. Faith;
4. Healings;
5. Working of miracles;
6. Prophecy;
7. Discerning of spirits;
8. Different kinds of tongues; and
9. Interpretation of tongues.

They are all your special topics.

And you guys are using them all connected with speaking in tongues.

So weird.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Then why did God open Lydias heart first...then use her mind to understand what Paul was saying?

In the Old Testament the "heart" referred to the 'whole being of a person' not the proverbial heart that pumps blood.
They referenced the proverbial heart that pumps blood as the 'whole being of a person' because the heart pumped blood and was seen as "alive." Besides this, God positioned the heart in the location where it is and emotions were felt in this same local area and was the "center" of a person's being and their response to any and all stimuli experienced by the person.

Later, the "heart" misunderstood by Gentiles of the New Covenant era simply began to interpret the "heart" as the function of all references to a person. In other words, Gentiles went beyond the original meaning and gave the "heart" the function it is known as today, such as the terminology of "accept Jesus into your heart" and other like mentions and in the process overlook the true being of a person which is the mind.
The proverbial heart only pumps blood. It is the mind where repentance occurs because as the word is defined as "metanoia" and its cognates means "to change one's mind."

In your reference to Lydia the readers of Luke's book of Acts understood it was in reference to Lydia's personhood not her proverbial heart. The word eventually lost its original meaning because after the Jewish Temple was destroyed Gentiles put a literal stamp upon the word to mean the actual heart in your chest. They did this because as Gentiles there was no Jew to guide them to understanding things in Hebrew Scripture such as history, culture, religion, and other Hebrew/Jewish norms of this ethnic group.
This is what happens when one person tries to understand another culture without guidance and instruction of someone in that culture.

Examples to compare:

32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? Lk 24:32.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, Lk 24:44–45.

As science advanced certain biological truths came to be understood as to the function of the various organs of the human body. The heart pumped blood through the circulatory system, the brain/mind comprehended the realities observed through the eyes, etc.

 

[Rella]

They are all your special topics.

And you guys are using them all connected with speaking in tongues.

So weird.

Are you a Jehovah Witness?

Where did you ever hear that of the gifts of the spirit were all given to a person?

Um... do you read a mainstream bible such as the King James Version or only the New World Translation?

Perhaps you will believer NWT

1 Cor 27-30
27 Now you are Christ’s body,v and each of you individually is a member.w
28 And God has assigned the respective ones in the congregation: first, apostles;x second, prophets;y third, teachers;z then powerful works;a then gifts of healings;b helpful services; abilities to direct;c different tongues.d
29 Not all are apostles, are they? Not all are prophets, are they? Not all are teachers, are they? Not all perform powerful works, do they?
30 Not all have gifts of healings, do they? Not all speak in tongues, do they?e Not all are interpreters, are they?f

 

[grace2]

FYI... there are more then tongues.

Tongues are merely language, nothing else.

In acts, God used tongues for evangelism those miracles to show to the world that Jesus was sent by God.

so those tongue-speaking churches are only using it for gimics just like triune god worshipping churches are explaining away their man-made god.

Their so-called "speaking in tongues" are all fake.

I have joined and served tongue-speaking churches. I know how their church operates.

 

[grace2]

Are you a Jehovah Witness?

Where did you ever hear that of the gifts of the spirit were all given to a person?

Um... do you read a mainstream bible such as the King James Version or only the New World Translation?

Perhaps you will believer NWT

1 Cor 27-30
27 Now you are Christ’s body,v and each of you individually is a member.w
28 And God has assigned the respective ones in the congregation: first, apostles;x second, prophets;y third, teachers;z then powerful works;a then gifts of healings;b helpful services; abilities to direct;c different tongues.d
29 Not all are apostles, are they? Not all are prophets, are they? Not all are teachers, are they? Not all perform powerful works, do they?
30 Not all have gifts of healings, do they? Not all speak in tongues, do they?e Not all are interpreters, are they?f

I have served JWs for several months, and I have served trin churches including tongue-speaking churches for several months too.

and I am neither of them.

I stopped searching around organized churches after seeing how they operate.

Organized churches are all following men, not God.

I follow Jesus, not any man-made organization.

Jesus is the Teacher. His teachings are all written in the gospel books Mattew, Mark, Luke, John, and Revelation.

It is not as complicated as the most organized churches are making it out to be.

all you need is submission to God and Jesus, and strive to follow all that Jesus teaches.

I read NIV.

I read it contextually both OT and NT according to Jesus' instructions.

 

[CrowCross]

In the Old Testament the "heart" referred to the 'whole being of a person' not the proverbial heart that pumps blood.
They referenced the proverbial heart that pumps blood as the 'whole being of a person' because the heart pumped blood and was seen as "alive." Besides this, God positioned the heart in the location where it is and emotions were felt in this same local area and was the "center" of a person's being and their response to any and all stimuli experienced by the person.

Later, the "heart" misunderstood by Gentiles of the New Covenant era simply began to interpret the "heart" as the function of all references to a person. In other words, Gentiles went beyond the original meaning and gave the "heart" the function it is known as today, such as the terminology of "accept Jesus into your heart" and other like mentions and in the process overlook the true being of a person which is the mind.
The proverbial heart only pumps blood. It is the mind where repentance occurs because as the word is defined as "metanoia" and its cognates means "to change one's mind."

In your reference to Lydia the readers of Luke's book of Acts understood it was in reference to Lydia's personhood not her proverbial heart. The word eventually lost its original meaning because after the Jewish Temple was destroyed Gentiles put a literal stamp upon the word to mean the actual heart in your chest. They did this because as Gentiles there was no Jew to guide them to understanding things in Hebrew Scripture such as history, culture, religion, and other Hebrew/Jewish norms of this ethnic group.
This is what happens when one person tries to understand another culture without guidance and instruction of someone in that culture.

Examples to compare:

32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? Lk 24:32.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, Lk 24:44–45.

As science advanced certain biological truths came to be understood as to the function of the various organs of the human body. The heart pumped blood through the circulatory system, the brain/mind comprehended the realities observed through the eyes, etc.

God doen't always work the way you think He does.

 

[Rella]

Tongues are merely language, nothing else.

In acts, God used tongues for evangelism those miracles to show to the world that Jesus was sent by God.

so those tongue-speaking churches are only using it for gimics just like triune god worshipping churches are explaining away their man-made god.

Their so-called "speaking in tongues" are all fake.

I have joined and served tongue-speaking churches. I know how their church operates.

Good for you.

I dont attend anylonger. but if you feel so moved you should.

I will suggest you try an Evangelical Presbyterian because NO ONE THERE will speak in tongues even if they could.

That is more charismatic type churches....

OR try the Roman Catholic... you wont find tongues there unless they are doing a mass in Latin.

Or try a home church... or start one and you can set the rules.

BTW... You are exactly correct... Tongues is simply assorted languages. Nothing mystical or special.

Question for you...

Why are you so against the Trinity. I understand you do not believe.... but curious as to why you would not want to.

Do you believe in baptism? I assume you believe in Jesus? Jesus is the one who said to his disciples.... or don't you think he had any? He said Go and baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Why do you think He said that?

If you say they were all individuals, and not all God... OK... then why be baptised in all three names?

Last question for now.....

Do you believe that Jesus was born of Mary and she became pregnant while she was a virgin?

 

[grace2]

Why are you so against the Trinity.

Because Jesus says His Father is His God and our God.

He also says "God is one" of the most important commandments and you guys don't take heed of the most important commandment.

If you don't follow Jesus' simple instruction such as God is one, everything else you preach is meaningless.

You guys don't have pure servanthood Jesus takes seriously.

You guys don't have a pure heart to follow God and Jesus.

You don't have a submissive heart to God and Jesus.

You guys are lucking in the childlike faith Jesus talks about.