When is the Great Tribulation that Jesus and others talked about?

[Marilyn C]

`Then Jesus went out, and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple.

Jesus said to them, "Do you not see these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming and the end of the age?......

For there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.` (Matt. 24: 1 - 3, 21)

There is much to discuss here, so can you bring in other scriptures that relate to what the Lord is revealing to His disciples?

 

[Marilyn C]

When I said `others,` I meant other people in God`s word.

 

[Marilyn C]

`For there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.` (Matt. 24: 21)

So, what does this terrible time look like that has not been since the beginning of the world nor ever again?

1. Great Famine. `...all the green grass was burned up.` (Rev. 8: 7)

2. Great Thirst. `...the sea ...became blood,...the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. `(Rev. 16: 3 & 4)

3. Great Heat. `...men were scorched with great heat...` (Rev. 16: 9)

4. Great Darkness. `...the throne of the beast and his kingdom became full of darkness.` (Rev. 16: 10)

5. Great Earthquake. `....there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth....and the cities of the earth fell.....Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.` (Rev. 16: 18 - 20)

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

I would like to add my thoughts on
The Tribulation of Matthew
24 & Luke 21

”For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be” [Matt. 24:21].​

Most of you who has access to this essay probably paints this “tribulation” as a future event, in spite of Jesus’ forecast in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 that this terrible distress would occur in His generation, and did occur in A. D. 67-70 when the Roman Army destroyed Jerusalem and the Jewish State.

Biblical scholarship, including Adam Clarke, understands “the whole world” in verse 14 as “the whole world” of the Roman Empire. [Compare Acts 17:6 & I Peter 5:9 on the “whole world.”] Please note the symbolisms of Matthew 24.

“At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth” [or Roman Empire] will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other” [Matt. 24:30-31].

1] The destruction of Jerusalem was such a terrifying example of divine judgment, described in terms like the “clouds of the sky and with power and great glory,” that all the Jewish tribes mourned.

2] “His angels” [messengers] were the apostles and those who followed afterwards.

3] The “trumpet call” was the trumpet call of the Gospel, which was heard throughout the Roman provinces and beyond.

4] The “gathering of His elect” were the Gentiles who had been chosen for salvation, in place of the rebellious Jews.

5] It should be obvious to the logistic mind that the following warnings by Jesus relate to the destruction of Jerusalem, not to His second and final coming.

Verses 17 & 18— “Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak.” Why? Because their time to escape the Roman Army would be limited.

Verse 19— “And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days!” Why? To flee the Roman Army under such circumstances would almost be impossible.

Verse 20— “Pray that your flight [escape] may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.” Why? Escaping the pending tribulation would be uncommonly difficult. Under such horrific conditions, “...let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains” [V. 15].

Another interesting thought is recorded in Luke 21:28, the parallel chapter. Jesus spoke of the believers’ deliverance or liberation—“redemption.” This points to the flight out of Jerusalem and safety from the horrible calamity. This was a warning for believers to flee, as noted in verse 15 of Matthew

I think it is safe to say that Matthew 24 and Luke 21 do not refer to the second personal coming of our Lord, but rather to His coming in judgment upon the stiff-necked and rebellious Jewish nation. In light of this biblical evidence, it seems reasonable to conclude that the destruction of Jerusalem and the Jewish State are alluded to, which occurred in A. D. 69-70.

A little over 2,000 year ago a Jewish historian by the name of Josephus witnessed and recorded the war between the Roman Army and the Jewish people. The major part of the battle occurred in and around Jerusalem. The account by Josephus is almost an echo of the predictions of Jesus, as recorded in the 24th chapter of Matthew and the 21st chapter of Luke.

The war began in 67 A.D. and ended in 70 A.D. On August 10, 70 A.D., Jerusalem was stormed and what followed was a universal massacre of the Jewish people—1,100,000 perished, and 100,000 survivors were sold into slavery. Such was the “tribulation” our Lord prophesied of in verse 21.​

 

[Marilyn C]

I would like to add my thoughts on
The Tribulation of Matthew
24 & Luke 21

”For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be” [Matt. 24:21].​

Most of you who has access to this essay probably paints this “tribulation” as a future event, in spite of Jesus’ forecast in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 that this terrible distress would occur in His generation, and did occur in A. D. 67-70 when the Roman Army destroyed Jerusalem and the Jewish State.

​

Hi Buff,

Thank you for your thoughts, however you did not address my points regarding what does the `terrible time look like that has not been since the beginning of the world nor ever again?

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Marilyn:

Thanks for your question. Matthew 24:21, along with other verses in the same chapter, alludes to the terrible destruction of Jerusalem and the Jewish State in A. D. 67-70 by the Roman Army. Allow me to quote myself:

"A little over 2,000 years ago a Jewish historian by the name of Josephus witnessed and recorded the war between the Roman Army and the Jewish people. The major part of the battle occurred in and around Jerusalem. The account by Josephus is almost an echo of the predictions of Jesus, as recorded in the 24th chapter of Matthew and the 21st chapter of Luke.

"The war began in 67 A.D. and ended in 70 A.D. On August 10, 70 A.D., Jerusalem was stormed and what followed was a universal massacre of the Jewish people—1,100,000 perished, and 100,000 survivors were sold into slavery. Such was the 'tribulation'our Lord prophesied of in verse 21."

I do not agree with your consensus of the two chapters. The two chapters, Matthew 24 and Luke 21, are highly controversial among believers. But remember, Josephus lived during those days and wrote the history of it. His history coincides with Matthew 24 and Luke 21. The Book of Revelation, from which you quote, is mostly symbolic, from beginning to end.​

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn:

Thanks for your question. Matthew 24:21, along with other verses in the same chapter, alludes to the terrible destruction of Jerusalem and the Jewish State in A. D. 67-70 by the Roman Army. Allow me to quote myself:

"A little over 2,000 years ago a Jewish historian by the name of Josephus witnessed and recorded the war between the Roman Army and the Jewish people. The major part of the battle occurred in and around Jerusalem. The account by Josephus is almost an echo of the predictions of Jesus, as recorded in the 24th chapter of Matthew and the 21st chapter of Luke.

"The war began in 67 A.D. and ended in 70 A.D. On August 10, 70 A.D., Jerusalem was stormed and what followed was a universal massacre of the Jewish people—1,100,000 perished, and 100,000 survivors were sold into slavery. Such was the 'tribulation'our Lord prophesied of in verse 21."

I do not agree with your consensus of the two chapters. The two chapters, Matthew 24 and Luke 21, are highly controversial among believers. But remember, Josephus lived during those days and wrote the history of it. His history coincides with Matthew 24 and Luke 21. The Book of Revelation, from which you quote, is mostly symbolic, from beginning to end.​

Thank you for the details concerning 70 AD. It certainly was not a good time. Then we know in WW 2 that 6 million Jews were killed, so that was greater than 70 AD.

 

[Marilyn C]

`For there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.` (Matt. 24: 21)

So, what does this terrible time look like that has not been since the beginning of the world nor ever again?

1. Great Famine. `...all the green grass was burned up.` (Rev. 8: 7)

2. Great Thirst. `...the sea ...became blood,...the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. `(Rev. 16: 3 & 4)

3. Great Heat. `...men were scorched with great heat...` (Rev. 16: 9)

4. Great Darkness. `...the throne of the beast and his kingdom became full of darkness.` (Rev. 16: 10)

5. Great Earthquake. `....there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth....and the cities of the earth fell.....Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.` (Rev. 16: 18 - 20)

Now, we see that the great multitude that no one can count actually died of those terrible events.

`They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat;...` (Rev. 7: 16)

 

[Red Baker]

Thank you for the details concerning 70 AD. It certainly was not a good time. Then we know in WW 2 that 6 million Jews were killed, so that was greater than 70 AD.

You got him Marilyn~The great tribulation period that our Lord was referring to~ is strictly spiritual in nature~100% so!

Also, this tribulation that our Lord is speaking about will take place at the end of this world as we know it. Matthew 24 and 25, is one discourse, not two separate discourses. Both chapters were spoken at the same time addressing ONE SUBJECT, that would come upon the world, the WHOLE world, from the east to the west, to north and to south, every part of this world as we know it. ~ just before the Lord's return. Let no man deceive you on this truth!

Matthew 24,25; Mark 13; Luke 21; 2nd Thess. 2; 1st John 2:18; Revelation; Daniel 7-12; all are dealing with the same subject, happening at the same time.

It will be a time where this world is flooded with false prophets that have taken over the churches of God/Christ throughout this world, where the saints have left the professing churches in this world, seeing the abomination of desolation being set up, in ALL OUTWARD PROFESSING CHURCHES. The church has apostate in doctrine; lover of pleasures more than lovers of God; haters of those that stand firm upon thus saith the Lord God. etc.

It is the "little season" of Revelation 20. It will end in the battle of Armageddon~when God will prepare a great feast for the fowls of heaven! Ezekiel 39:17-19; Revelation 19:17,19; Matthew 24:28; etc.

Matthew 24 has not one thing to do with 70 A. D. only in the minds of those who are following their favorite preacher, who is following his~with Josephus, the infidel, their teacher.

Matthew 24 is being fulfilled here in America just as the Lord said~how about in Australia? I'm sure it is.

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Thank you for the details concerning 70 AD. It certainly was not a good time. Then we know in WW 2 that 6 million Jews were killed, so that was greater than 70 AD.

Marilyn:

Thanks for your additional comments. Have a good day.

 

[Marilyn C]

You got him Marilyn~The great tribulation period that our Lord was referring to~ is strictly spiritual in nature~100% so!

Also, this tribulation that our Lord is speaking about will take place at the end of this world as we know it. Matthew 24 and 25, is one discourse, not two separate discourses. Both chapters were spoken at the same time addressing ONE SUBJECT, that would come upon the world, the WHOLE world, from the east to the west, to north and to south, every part of this world as we know it. ~ just before the Lord's return. Let no man deceive you on this truth!

Matthew 24,25; Mark 13; Luke 21; 2nd Thess. 2; 1st John 2:18; Revelation; Daniel 7-12; all are dealing with the same subject, happening at the same time.

It will be a time where this world is flooded with false prophets that have taken over the churches of God/Christ throughout this world, where the saints have left the professing churches in this world, seeing the abomination of desolation being set up, in ALL OUTWARD PROFESSING CHURCHES. The church has apostate in doctrine; lover of pleasures more than lovers of God; haters of those that stand firm upon thus saith the Lord God. etc.

It is the "little season" of Revelation 20. It will end in the battle of Armageddon~when God will prepare a great feast for the fowls of heaven! Ezekiel 39:17-19; Revelation 19:17,19; Matthew 24:28; etc.

Matthew 24 has not one thing to do with 70 A. D. only in the minds of those who are following their favorite preacher, who is following his~with Josephus, the infidel, their teacher.

Matthew 24 is being fulfilled here in America just as the Lord said~how about in Australia? I'm sure it is.

We seem to see things differently at the moment.

In Australia we are not as bad off as other parts of the world, but we will soon catch up when food is scarce and dear.

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Marilyn:

This Red Baker you quoted is denying and rejecting both biblical and other forms of accurate history. His remarks clearly contradict historical evidence. I'm surprised, and deeply disappointed, that he advocates the tribulation in Mattherw 24 and Luke 21 to be "spiritual in nature."

This claim is so non-biblical and non-historical he might as well affirm that Jesus is not a real person, but a figurative creation. It would be interesting to know from what source he is achieving his "knowledge."​

 

[3 Resurrections]

This Red Baker you quoted is denying and rejecting both biblical and other forms of accurate history. His remarks clearly contradict historical evidence. I'm surprised, and deeply disappointed, that he advocates the tribulation in Mattherw 24 and Luke 21 to be "spiritual in nature."

My friend Red claims to be an Amil Idealist on his eschatology, and from what I can tell from his presentation of things, this viewpoint seems to require that everything be classified as a metaphor signifying something other than what it is. I believe the scriptures do use metaphoric expressions quite a bit, but it's certainly not universally 100%.

I agree with Buff that the Jewish / Roman war conditions and the siege leading to AD 70's culmination (predicted in Matthew 24) was altogether horrific for those who were unfortunately trapped without the ability to escape those calamities. However, that was not what qualified this period as a time of tribulation such as had never been before then and would never occur like that again, as Matthew 24:21 had said. What made it unparalleled was having the entire Satanic realm imprisoned within the city of Jerusalem for the duration of the siege. So in a sense, Red is correct that the element making this "great tribulation" period totally unique was "spiritual" in nature. Evil spirits of the Satanic realm tormenting the city of Jerusalem, to be exact.

Christ had promised in Matthew 12:43-45 that this torment by unclean spirits would come upon His own people in their "last state", making it worse than when He had been among them in their "first state", casting out unclean spirits right and left from Israel's citizens in every city. Those same unclean spirits would each return with seven unclean spirits more wicked than themselves to torment that wicked generation in its "last state". The number "7" is a number representing completeness. I believe Christ was predicting what Revelation 18:2 also spoke about - the imprisonment of "every unclean spirit" in the city before its destruction. No other city had ever endured that kind of torment before, and never would again, since God destroyed them all by AD 70's conclusion. Zechariah 13:2 said that God would cause the unclean spirits to "pass out of the land", in that prophecy for Jerusalem's AD 70 siege predicted in Zechariah 12 through Zechariah 14.

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

My friend Red claims to be an Amil Idealist on his eschatology, and from what I can tell from his presentation of things, this viewpoint seems to require that everything be classified as a metaphor signifying something other than what it is. I believe the scriptures do use metaphoric expressions quite a bit, but it's certainly not universally 100%.

I agree with Buff that the Jewish / Roman war conditions and the siege leading to AD 70's culmination (predicted in Matthew 24) was altogether horrific for those who were unfortunately trapped without the ability to escape those calamities. However, that was not what qualified this period as a time of tribulation such as had never been before then and would never occur like that again, as Matthew 24:21 had said. What made it unparalleled was having the entire Satanic realm imprisoned within the city of Jerusalem for the duration of the siege. So in a sense, Red is correct that the element making this "great tribulation" period totally unique was "spiritual" in nature. Evil spirits of the Satanic realm tormenting the city of Jerusalem, to be exact.

Christ had promised in Matthew 12:43-45 that this torment by unclean spirits would come upon His own people in their "last state", making it worse than when He had been among them in their "first state", casting out unclean spirits right and left from Israel's citizens in every city. Those same unclean spirits would each return with seven unclean spirits more wicked than themselves to torment that wicked generation in its "last state". The number "7" is a number representing completeness. I believe Christ was predicting what Revelation 18:2 also spoke about - the imprisonment of "every unclean spirit" in the city before its destruction. No other city had ever endured that kind of torment before, and never would again, since God destroyed them all by AD 70's conclusion. Zechariah 13:2 said that God would cause the unclean spirits to "pass out of the land", in that prophecy for Jerusalem's AD 70 siege predicted in Zechariah 12 through Zechariah 14.

3 resurrections:

Appreciate your input. Have a good night.

 

[Marilyn C]

My friend Red claims to be an Amil Idealist on his eschatology, and from what I can tell from his presentation of things, this viewpoint seems to require that everything be classified as a metaphor signifying something other than what it is. I believe the scriptures do use metaphoric expressions quite a bit, but it's certainly not universally 100%.

I agree with Buff that the Jewish / Roman war conditions and the siege leading to AD 70's culmination (predicted in Matthew 24) was altogether horrific for those who were unfortunately trapped without the ability to escape those calamities. However, that was not what qualified this period as a time of tribulation such as had never been before then and would never occur like that again, as Matthew 24:21 had said. What made it unparalleled was having the entire Satanic realm imprisoned within the city of Jerusalem for the duration of the siege. So in a sense, Red is correct that the element making this "great tribulation" period totally unique was "spiritual" in nature. Evil spirits of the Satanic realm tormenting the city of Jerusalem, to be exact.

Christ had promised in Matthew 12:43-45 that this torment by unclean spirits would come upon His own people in their "last state", making it worse than when He had been among them in their "first state", casting out unclean spirits right and left from Israel's citizens in every city. Those same unclean spirits would each return with seven unclean spirits more wicked than themselves to torment that wicked generation in its "last state". The number "7" is a number representing completeness. I believe Christ was predicting what Revelation 18:2 also spoke about - the imprisonment of "every unclean spirit" in the city before its destruction. No other city had ever endured that kind of torment before, and never would again, since God destroyed them all by AD 70's conclusion. Zechariah 13:2 said that God would cause the unclean spirits to "pass out of the land", in that prophecy for Jerusalem's AD 70 siege predicted in Zechariah 12 through Zechariah 14.

However, Jesus referred to the `abomination of desolation` spoken by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place.` (Matt. 24: 15)

And that event in Daniel relates to the final chastisement of Israel by the Lord. God told the purpose of that time was to finish national rebellion, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy. None of that has happened yet and certainly didn`t happen in 70 AD. (Dan. 9: 24)

 

[Red Baker]

Marilyn:

This Red Baker you quoted is denying and rejecting both biblical and other forms of accurate history. His remarks clearly contradict historical evidence.
​

Buff ~Aka: Reformer,
I have debated this with you before, and back then you proved your lack of understanding, to where you bail out of the debate, probably forgot, or maybe just selected memory. Be as it may~Your position, and others like you must depend on trying to deceive others like you have been deceived in using extra biblical source of information to attempt to convince others of your own position which is so unbiblical. Truth, biblical truth on any subject is strictly contain within the word of God, "not" outside of the scriptures, how foolish to believe otherwise! All it does is it leads men down the path of corrupting God's holy word, and for doing so, there will be a price to pay, not only in this world by being blinded to the truth, but in the great judgement day, one will give account on how they handle the scriptures, we all can be assured of that.

If I had never heard of 70 A. D. then I would have never even consider thinking that the Olivet discourse is talking about that event~and neither would any of God's children, but sad to say, even some them have been duped by men like you.

I'm surprised, and deeply disappointed, that he advocates the tribulation in Mattherw 24 and Luke 21 to be "spiritual in nature."

Why would I not? I have support from so many scriptures~trusting this thread goes on , and if it does, then I shall prove my position with the word of God, not with extra-biblically lies that only steals truth from the scriptures and keeps men in darkness concerning that which is to come upon the whole world just before Jesus returns.

If this is causing you to be "deeply disappointed"~ then I would suggest you rethink your teachings that you have learned from the feet of the unbelieving Jewish historian, Josephus, a true infidel! I'm here to bring the truth like so many have gone on before me, by trusting in the scriptures alone for our "only" authority to teach bible truths~we have "no other source" that we have a right to use, other than God's "very own testimony" of what is the truth!

This claim is so non-biblical and non-historical he might as well affirm that Jesus is not a real person, but a figurative creation.

Oh, it is biblical~ but true, its non-historical as far as needing Josephus to help me to fill in the blanks.

Jesus' birth, life, death and resurrection is all recorded in the scriptures, why would not I believe God's testimony of His Son? If it was not in the scriptures but only in the writings of some man like Josephus, then I would NOT believe since no words of men are inspired other than those men who spoke under the inspiration of God.

Besides, it was Jesus who spoke the Olivet discourse and warned us to not be deceived, especially so by men who come bringing others testimonies, other than the word of God, concerning what is written in Matthew 24; Mark 13; and Luke 21, etc.

It would be interesting to know from what source he is achieving his "knowledge."

Thought you would never ask!

Isaiah 8:20~"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

My source is taken from the scriptures ALONE, period! If any man does not speak according to God's word, then it is because they have no light in them, pure and simple is it not.

 

[Red Baker]

I'm leaving to go out of town very soon, so if no response back from me, then you should know why. I will answer any post when I return Monday.

 

[Red Baker]

My friend Red claims to be an Amil Idealist on his eschatology, and from what I can tell from his presentation of things, this viewpoint seems to require that everything be classified as a metaphor signifying something other than what it is. I believe the scriptures do use metaphoric expressions quite a bit, but it's certainly not universally 100%.

Short of time, so I'll be quick for now.

I'm a Amil idealist, because that's the only way to allow all scriptures to flow together and to interpret each other, for the scriptures are their OWN INTERPRETER! We do not look for extra-biblical information to help us, we trust God's word to deliver its truth to us by the Spirit.

 

[3 Resurrections]

However, Jesus referred to the `abomination of desolation` spoken by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place.` (Matt. 24: 15)

And that event in Daniel relates to the final chastisement of Israel by the Lord. God told the purpose of that time was to finish national rebellion, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy. None of that has happened yet and certainly didn`t happen in 70 AD. (Dan. 9: 24)

Scripture itself defines what that "abomination of desolation" was. Daniel spoke of Jerusalem being made desolate by means of "the abominable armies" (Daniel 9:27). Luke 21:20 agreed with this, by interpreting Christ's statements about the abomination of desolation as being "Jerusalem surrounded by armies". It wasn't just the temple that was considered "the holy place". In God's plans for the post-exilic temple built by Zerubbabel, He said, "This is the law of the house; Upon the top of the mountain the whole limit thereof round about shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house." To have the "abominable armies" of the Zealots and the Romans standing within that "most holy" perimeter of the temple in AD 66 fulfilled this prediction.

You are correct that the terms of Daniel's 70 week prophecy were not fulfilled in AD 70. Those 6 terms in Daniel 9:24 were fulfilled by Christ Himself in His crucifixion death, resurrection, and ascension to heaven that resurrection day. By His sacrifice on our behalf, He made an end of our sin and transgression, vicariously brought in everlasting righteousness for us, reconciled us to God, anointed the "most holy" mercy seat in heaven with His blood sacrifice, and sealed up vision and prophecy for a later fulfillment concerning the second temple's fated destruction; a temple which became outmoded by Christ establishing a spiritual temple made of "living stones" with Himself the "chief cornerstone".

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Buff ~Aka: Reformer,
I have debated this with you before, and back then you proved your lack of understanding, to where you bail out of the debate, probably forgot, or maybe just selected memory. Be as it may~Your position, and others like you must depend on trying to deceive others like you have been deceived in using extra biblical source of information to attempt to convince others of your own position which is so unbiblical. Truth, biblical truth on any subject is strictly contain within the word of God, "not" outside of the scriptures, how foolish to believe otherwise! All it does is it leads men down the path of corrupting God's holy word, and for doing so, there will be a price to pay, not only in this world by being blinded to the truth, but in the great judgement day, one will give account on how they handle the scriptures, we all can be assured of that.

If I had never heard of 70 A. D. then I would have never even consider thinking that the Olivet discourse is talking about that event~and neither would any of God's children, but sad to say, even some them have been duped by men like you.

Why would I not? I have support from so many scriptures~trusting this thread goes on , and if it does, then I shall prove my position with the word of God, not with extra-biblically lies that only steals truth from the scriptures and keeps men in darkness concerning that which is to come upon the whole world just before Jesus returns.

If this is causing you to be "deeply disappointed"~ then I would suggest you rethink your teachings that you have learned from the feet of the unbelieving Jewish historian, Josephus, a true infidel! I'm here to bring the truth like so many have gone on before me, by trusting in the scriptures alone for our "only" authority to teach bible truths~we have "no other source" that we have a right to use, other than God's "very own testimony" of what is the truth!

Oh, it is biblical~ but true, its non-historical as far as needing Josephus to help me to fill in the blanks.

Jesus' birth, life, death and resurrection is all recorded in the scriptures, why would not I believe God's testimony of His Son? If it was not in the scriptures but only in the writings of some man like Josephus, then I would NOT believe since no words of men are inspired other than those men who spoke under the inspiration of God.

Besides, it was Jesus who spoke the Olivet discourse and warned us to not be deceived, especially so by men who come bringing others testimonies, other than the word of God, concerning what is written in Matthew 24; Mark 13; and Luke 21, etc.

Thought you would never ask!

My source is taken from the scriptures ALONE, period! If any man does not speak according to God's word, then it is because they have no light in them, pure and simple is it not.

Red Baker:

Try to calm down. It is difficult to dialogue with someone who is emotionally disturbed because another writer takes issue with his biblical sentiments. We cannot "reason together" unless we reason logically and factually.

You noted, "Jesus' birth, life, death and resurrection is all recorded in the scriptures, why would not I believe God's testimony of His Son?"

Yes, indeed, believe God's testimony, but make certain it is His testimony before spewing it out to others. I feel this might be your core problem. I'll continue reading you, of course, but try to get control of your wits.​