When is the Great Tribulation that Jesus and others talked about?

[Arial]

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[Marilyn C]

Scripture itself defines what that "abomination of desolation" was. Daniel spoke of Jerusalem being made desolate by means of "the abominable armies" (Daniel 9:27). Luke 21:20 agreed with this, by interpreting Christ's statements about the abomination of desolation as being "Jerusalem surrounded by armies". It wasn't just the temple that was considered "the holy place". In God's plans for the post-exilic temple built by Zerubbabel, He said, "This is the law of the house; Upon the top of the mountain the whole limit thereof round about shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house." To have the "abominable armies" of the Zealots and the Romans standing within that "most holy" perimeter of the temple in AD 66 fulfilled this prediction.

You are correct that the terms of Daniel's 70 week prophecy were not fulfilled in AD 70. Those 6 terms in Daniel 9:24 were fulfilled by Christ Himself in His crucifixion death, resurrection, and ascension to heaven that resurrection day. By His sacrifice on our behalf, He made an end of our sin and transgression, vicariously brought in everlasting righteousness for us, reconciled us to God, anointed the "most holy" mercy seat in heaven with His blood sacrifice, and sealed up vision and prophecy for a later fulfillment concerning the second temple's fated destruction; a temple which became outmoded by Christ establishing a spiritual temple made of "living stones" with Himself the "chief cornerstone".

Abomination of desolation - `When you SEE the Abomination of desolation, spoken of by the prophet Daniel, STANDING in the holy place...` (Matt. 24: 15)

 

[3 Resurrections]

Abomination of desolation - `When you SEE the Abomination of desolation, spoken of by the prophet Daniel, STANDING in the holy place...` (Matt. 24: 15)

Yes indeed, those standing armies surrounding Jerusalem were visible to those who were watching for this sign to occur before they fled Judea for the mountains. Daniel 11:31 uses the same description about the abominable armies during Antiochus E's time, saying "and ARMS shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate." This was descriptive of Antiochus's Greek army standing in Jerusalem and polluting the temple with their activity.

The same type of desolating activity took place again in the AD 66-70 period by the competing Zealot factions and the Roman armies all battling each other over who would seize control of Jerusalem.

 

[Red Baker]

Red Baker:

Try to calm down. It is difficult to dialogue with someone who is emotionally disturbed because another writer takes issue with his biblical sentiments.​

I'm calm and composed, self-possessed, in spite of you acting like you are cool as a cucumber, as though you are the one bringing scriptures!

" emotionally disturbed"​

You must be speaking of your inwardly emotions, for as I said~"I'm very calm, composed and self-possessed."

We cannot "reason together" unless we reason logically and factually.

Amen to that, especially so factually, which can only be done "in" the scriptures, not outside of them!

You noted, "Jesus' birth, life, death and resurrection is all recorded in the scriptures, why would not I believe God's testimony of His Son?"

Yes, indeed, believe God's testimony, but make certain it is His testimony before spewing it out to others. I feel this might be your core problem. I'll continue reading you, of course, but try to get control of your wits.

Bluff, that's my whole point with you, I only use God's word when defending my teachings on eschatology, I strongly reject using Josephus' Wars of the Jews to fill in the blanks, and try to sell it to others as God's testimony concerning truth.

Once more~70 A.D. is not biblical doctrine mention in the holy scriptures, it is a false goods sold as truth, by men who are void of truth. The Olivet discourse has not one word concerning the natural seed of Abraham. It is 100% dealing with end time prophecy concerning the apostate church, and war against the saints of the most high, the TRUE BELOVED CITY.

Take this as coming from a man that needs to calm down and reason with men who teach and preach the gospel of the last day~ that God's promises are for natural Israel and the church is nothing more than a after thought, or a parentheses in God's eternal purposes. I'm not going to stop blowing the trumpet because of men like you. Even if you do not go this far, you go too far with 70 A.D. teachings which are not in the scriptures. I'll reason with any man so long as he/she comes from the scriptures alone, if not, then we have a problem sir.

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Red Baker:

I will only add a few comments to your post above, followed by a question. You said, "Buff, that's my whole point with you, I only use God's word when defending my teachings on eschatology, I strongly reject using Josephus' Wars of the Jews to fill in the blanks, and try to sell it to others as God's testimony concerning truth. Once more~70 A.D. is not biblical doctrine mention in the holy scriptures, it is a false goods sold as truth, by men who are void of truth."

Question: Is there any aspect of history, outside of the scriptures, that you feel coincides with scripture, especially your eschatology sentiments? If you need further clarification of my Question, let me know.​

 

[Red Baker]

Red Baker:

I will only add a few comments to your post above, followed by a question. You said, "Buff, that's my whole point with you, I only use God's word when defending my teachings on eschatology, I strongly reject using Josephus' Wars of the Jews to fill in the blanks, and try to sell it to others as God's testimony concerning truth. Once more~70 A.D. is not biblical doctrine mention in the holy scriptures, it is a false goods sold as truth, by men who are void of truth."

Question: Is there any aspect of history, outside of the scriptures, that you feel coincides with scripture, especially your eschatology sentiments? If you need further clarification of my Question, let me know.​

Buff, you ask the wrong question, you should have asked me: "Is there any history outside of the word of God, that God's word would support"?

You see, the word of God is MY HISTORY BOOK~ As WInston Churchill so correctly said: “History Is Written by the Victors”~or, by those who want to disprove the word of God! Take your pick, sir.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

When is the Great Tribulation that Jesus and others talked about?​

Chuckle!! It'll be along when it's TIME.

"Eschatology", after all, is just a religious term for "Rank Speculation"

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Red Baker:

I can understand why you did not do service to my question. I did not ask your question. I asked mine. So this deserves a repeat.

Question: Is there any aspect of history, outside of the scriptures, that you feel coincides with scripture, especially your eschatology sentiments? ​

 

[Red Baker]

Red Baker:

I can understand why you did not do service to my question. I did not ask your question. I asked mine. So this deserves a repeat.

Question: Is there any aspect of history, outside of the scriptures, that you feel coincides with scripture, especially your eschatology sentiments? ​

Look above two post, I did answer your question that's asked again here.

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Red Baker:

Question: Is there any aspect of history, outside of the scriptures, that you feel coincides with scripture, especially your eschatology sentiments?

If you answered this question, as you claim, then repeat it here exactly as you answered it.

 

[EarlyActs]

Re 70 AD.
We need to use the right 'delay' mechanism when reading the material. Mt24A (to v29) is about 1st cent. Judea. It was always said that the end of the world would be right after (see the 'stage' after v29), but also that a delay was allowed: 'only the Father knows.'
After all, every reader must reconcile 'right after these...' with 'only the Father knows.' The resolution is a delay.

It is exactly this delay referenced in 2 Peter 3, but coming from Gentile pagans.

Another view is Mk 13's 4 possible times of the return of the master. It is a wide range of any minute spots.

The destruction of 1st cent. Judea is specifically a 1st generation doctrine, because the babes that nursed during the Gospel event would, as adults, wish to die, so horrible would be that catastrophe on Israel. Please see my THE COVENANT REVOLT so you can truly cover all the bases. amazon.com. M. Sanford

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Red Baker:

Don't forget to reply to this. I will keep reminding you. I have a good reason why I need your answer.

Question: Is there any aspect of history, outside of the scriptures, that you feel coincides with scripture, especially your eschatology sentiments?

If you answered this question, as you claim, then repeat it here exactly as you answered it.

 

[Marilyn C]

Chuckle!! It'll be along when it's TIME.

"Eschatology", after all, is just a religious term for "Rank Speculation"

I don`t think God would agree with that view.

 

[Marilyn C]

Re 70 AD.
We need to use the right 'delay' mechanism when reading the material. Mt24A (to v29) is about 1st cent. Judea. It was always said that the end of the world would be right after (see the 'stage' after v29), but also that a delay was allowed: 'only the Father knows.'
After all, every reader must reconcile 'right after these...' with 'only the Father knows.' The resolution is a delay.

Now isn`t the Lord right next to His Father and aren`t they - equal, in unity and of the same mind? Thus, to me I see that the Lord does very well know when the Father will send Him to gather His mature Body and take them to their eternal setting in glory. (Acts 3: 20 & 21)

Jesus is now in the God Head as He was before His manifestation on the earth.

 

[Red Baker]

Red Baker:

Question: Is there any aspect of history, outside of the scriptures, that you feel coincides with scripture, especially your eschatology sentiments?

If you answered this question, as you claim, then repeat it here exactly as you answered it.

Buff, you ask the wrong question, you should have asked me: "Is there any history outside of the word of God, that God's word would support"?

You see, the word of God is MY HISTORY BOOK~ As WInston Churchill so correctly said: “History Is Written by the Victors”~or, by those who want to disprove the word of God! Take your pick, sir.

I think you have taken your pick!

 

[Red Baker]

Red Baker:

Don't forget to reply to this. I will keep reminding you. I have a good reason why I need your answer.

Question: Is there any aspect of history, outside of the scriptures, that you feel coincides with scripture, especially your eschatology sentiments?

If you answered this question, as you claim, then repeat it here exactly as you answered it.

Buff, you ask the wrong question, you should have asked me: "Is there any history outside of the word of God, that God's word would support"?

You see, the word of God is MY HISTORY BOOK~ As WInston Churchill so correctly said: “History Is Written by the Victors”~or, by those who want to disprove the word of God! Take your pick, sir.

There, I have posted it twice to you can see it and read it!

 

[Red Baker]

Re 70 AD.
We need to use the right 'delay' mechanism when reading the material. Mt24A (to v29) is about 1st cent. Judea. It was always said that the end of the world would be right after (see the 'stage' after v29), but also that a delay was allowed: 'only the Father knows.'
After all, every reader must reconcile 'right after these...' with 'only the Father knows.' The resolution is a delay.

It is exactly this delay referenced in 2 Peter 3, but coming from Gentile pagans.

Another view is Mk 13's 4 possible times of the return of the master. It is a wide range of any minute spots.

The destruction of 1st cent. Judea is specifically a 1st generation doctrine, because the babes that nursed during the Gospel event would, as adults, wish to die, so horrible would be that catastrophe on Israel. Please see my THE COVENANT REVOLT so you can truly cover all the bases. amazon.com. M. Sanford

Matthew 24, 25~ is nowhere speaking about first century Judea. The Olivet discourse is one "continuously discourse" speaking about one subject~the last days just before Christ's return and the end of this world as we know it. The judea of Matthew 24 is the last day churches in this world~judea being the place where God is worship, or, at least supposed to be worshipped~ but in the last days before Christ's return this temple shall be filled with false prophets, and their deluded followers, declaring themselves that they are God, and God's people by what they teach, or do not teach, etc., and the false gifts they supposedly possess.

I'll this discuss these two chapters with you if you like.

There is no dual fulfillment in these chapters, they are addressing one main subject as I have said already. 70 A.D. is doctrine brought into the churches throughout this world by latter day men not taught by the Spirit of God.

Some good men have been deceived into believing this doctrine by looking outside of the scriptures for help~ a very dangerous place to look. God's truth is in the scriptures not outside of them.

Acts 17:11~"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

That's where we shall find TRUTH, if that's indeed what we are searching for.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I don`t think God would agree with that view.

Seems to me that He would. HE WAS THE ONE who said NO MAN KNOWS, and I believe Him.

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

There, I have posted it twice to you can see it and read it!

Red Baker:

Okay, so I understand, then, your answer to my question is "Yes." Again, the question, "Is there any aspect of history, outside of the scriptures, that you feel coincides with scripture, especially your eschatology sentiments?"

That being the case, why are you rejecting Josephus's history of the Jewish/Roman War in A. D. 67-70? He lived at the time. His historical knowledge of what happened has been accepted as valid by thousands of readers and scholars.

I'm not saying every aspect, every word, of his historical efforts is factual, only that his overall or core historical contributions on the War coincide with many portions of Matthew 24 and Luke 21. You deny that, in spite of the fact that you DO believe some history, outside of the scriptures, synchronizes with the scriptures. I think you need to clarify, brother.

 

[EarlyActs]

Now isn`t the Lord right next to His Father and aren`t they - equal, in unity and of the same mind? Thus, to me I see that the Lord does very well know when the Father will send Him to gather His mature Body and take them to their eternal setting in glory. (Acts 3: 20 & 21)

Jesus is now in the God Head as He was before His manifestation on the earth.

He is now on his Davidic throne, yes, Acts 2:30,31. . As a further honor to him, based on Ps 2 and 110, God will smash all the enemies of the Son.

I don't know if take them is quite on target because this world will be changed to the NHNE. So if you meant that, fine. But it is not as though (in heaven's thinking) that there is much distance between heaven and earth. My understanding of the 'snatching' is that it simply protects them from the destruction of this creation long enough to place them on the NHNE. That could be merely a moment of divine production.