What is Faith in the Bible?

[makesends]

Yes. And I don't disagree with anything @Eleanor has said. It is just that the scriptures you give above are not using the word "faith" but believe. And I am talking about the Bible's use of "faith." The believing is a definition of what faith constitutes. I am not defining faith. I am referring to how the Bible uses faith----from God's POV, as saving faith. Noun or verb?

In the Eph 2 passage where Paul says we are saved by grace through faith, if faith is a verb there----which is how it is interpreted by non Reformed, it removes grace. It is a particular faith that is given, not one we arrive at through intellect alone or assent alone, even though intellect and assent are both present. Faith is both of those and more. The more, being beyond our senses and reason.

It is the same with the definition of Faith in Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. How often have we heard those in the Charismatic community misuse the voice to make a conjuring out of faith in that passage by reading it as a verb. What happens when it is a noun and encompasses what Christianity rests on? It is a particular faith. Substance and evidence of what cannot be seen, in our hearts.

I get your point, and it is a good one. You are not wrong.

 

[makesends]

@ Eleanor @makesends and everyone else. The summation of the OP is when the Bible uses the word faith it always means saving faith. (noun) Not a conjured or self generated faith. (verb)

Good enough. I'm in complete agreement as to your point.

 

[JIM]

@ Eleanor @makesends and everyone else. The summation of the OP is when the Bible uses the word faith it always means saving faith. (noun) Not a conjured or self generated faith. (verb)

The problem is in the English word "faith". There really is no direct Greek equivalent to the English word faith. The Greek word which is translated to the English word faith is πίστις [pistis]. Thayer's Greek dictionary has the following:

Thayer Definition:
1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man’s relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
1a) relating to God
1a1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
1b) relating to Christ
1b1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
1c) the religious beliefs of Christians
1d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same

2) fidelity, faithfulness
2a) the character of one who can be relied on

Part of Speech: noun feminine

It is a noun.

The verb form for faith in the Greek is πιστεύω [pisteuō]. Thayer's has the following:

Thayer Definition:

1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
1a) of the thing believed
1a1) to credit, have confidence
1b) in a moral or religious reference
1b1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
1b2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith

2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
2a) to be intrusted with a thing

Part of Speech: verb

The Greek, just as with English, can be used in basically two different ways. (1) We can believe something or someone. That is to consider it to be true. Or (2) We can believe in something or in someone. That is, to not only believe it to be true, but to place trust in it. Sometimes when it is reasonably obvious that we mean the usage (2), i.e, to believe in, to believe it true and place trust in it, the word "in" isn't included. That is the case in Greek as well.

Thus, as in the English to "believe in", the Greek equivalent is "pisteuo en" or "pisteuo epi" or "pisteuo eis". And sometimes when the intended meaning "to believe in" is obvious the added words "en" "epi" or :eis" are absent.

The English is further confusing since "to believe in" is almost always used interchangeably with "to have faith in". When we say, "I believe in God" it means the same as "I have faith in God".

The real trouble begins, not so much the actual meaning of the words here, but rather how the belief, the faith, comes about. How we come to believe something or someone or how we come to believe in something or someone in every case except as it relates to God is well understood. We study the information, the data and sometimes our own experience associated with it and we either believe it or not. When we believe it to the extent that we place our trust in it, we say we believe in it. I think everyone, thinking rationally, would say that they believe in gravity. The information, data and experience with gravity is such that we would never doubt it. We always act in a manner never attempting to deny it of defy it.

I think the same thing to be true concerning belief, faith, in God. Some do not. Some think that, totally unlike anything else in life, belief, i.e., faith, in God does not come through information, data and experience but rather it is infused, injected, implanted miraculously. And that is where the difference lies in so much of the discussion about God.

 

[Arial]

The problem is in the English word "faith". There really is no direct Greek equivalent to the English word faith. The Greek word which is translated to the English word faith is πίστις [pistis]. Thayer's Greek dictionary has the following:

Thayer Definition:
1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man’s relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
1a) relating to God
1a1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
1b) relating to Christ
1b1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
1c) the religious beliefs of Christians
1d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same

2) fidelity, faithfulness
2a) the character of one who can be relied on

Part of Speech: noun feminine

It is a noun.

The verb form for faith in the Greek is πιστεύω [pisteuō]. Thayer's has the following:

Thayer Definition:

1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
1a) of the thing believed
1a1) to credit, have confidence
1b) in a moral or religious reference
1b1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
1b2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith

2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
2a) to be intrusted with a thing

Part of Speech: verb

The Greek, just as with English, can be used in basically two different ways. (1) We can believe something or someone. That is to consider it to be true. Or (2) We can believe in something or in someone. That is, to not only believe it to be true, but to place trust in it. Sometimes when it is reasonably obvious that we mean the usage (2), i.e, to believe in, to believe it true and place trust in it, the word "in" isn't included. That is the case in Greek as well.

Thus, as in the English to "believe in", the Greek equivalent is "pisteuo en" or "pisteuo epi" or "pisteuo eis". And sometimes when the intended meaning "to believe in" is obvious the added words "en" "epi" or :eis" are absent.

The English is further confusing since "to believe in" is almost always used interchangeably with "to have faith in". When we say, "I believe in God" it means the same as "I have faith in God".

The real trouble begins, not so much the actual meaning of the words here, but rather how the belief, the faith, comes about. How we come to believe something or someone or how we come to believe in something or someone in every case except as it relates to God is well understood. We study the information, the data and sometimes our own experience associated with it and we either believe it or not. When we believe it to the extent that we place our trust in it, we say we believe in it. I think everyone, thinking rationally, would say that they believe in gravity. The information, data and experience with gravity is such that we would never doubt it. We always act in a manner never attempting to deny it of defy it.

I think the same thing to be true concerning belief, faith, in God. Some do not. Some think that, totally unlike anything else in life, belief, i.e., faith, in God does not come through information, data and experience but rather it is infused, injected, implanted miraculously. And that is where the difference lies in so much of the discussion about God.

OK, Thanks for the extended definition of faith.

However the OP is not about what is faith or how it is defined. Since it is a noun; and the Christian faith has particular content; and the Bible is the Christian's book pertaining to all things God and salvation; and salvation and justification come through faith: When the Bible uses the word faith in conjunction with God's relationship with mankind, what is it referring to?

The answer would be, not just any faith, but saving faith. Not self generated faith that can be in anything, but saving faith.

 

[Eleanor]

Yes. And I don't disagree with anything @Eleanor has said. It is just that the scriptures you give above are not using the word "faith" but believe. And I am talking about the Bible's use of "faith." The believing is a definition of what faith constitutes. I am not defining faith. I am referring to how the Bible uses faith----from God's POV, as saving faith. Noun or verb?

In the Eph 2 passage where Paul says we are saved by grace through faith, if faith is a verb there----which is how it is interpreted by non Reformed, it removes grace.

Why can't it be faith only by the power of the Holy Spirit working within the believer?

I get lost at the notion that "faith" (v.) could refer only to self-power.

It is a particular faith that is given, not one we arrive at through intellect alone or assent alone, even though intellect and assent are both present. Faith is both of those and more. The more, being beyond our senses and reason.

It is the same with the definition of Faith in Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. How often have we heard those in the Charismatic community misuse the voice to make a conjuring out of faith in that passage by reading it as a verb. What happens when it is a noun and encompasses what Christianity rests on? It is a particular faith. Substance and evidence of what cannot be seen, in our hearts.

 

[Eleanor]

@ Eleanor @makesends and everyone else. The summation of the OP is when the Bible uses the word faith it always means saving faith. (noun) Not a conjured or self generated faith. (verb)

Which faith to me is Holy Spirit-granted power of believing (v).

We can't chose to believe what we do not believe.

Those without the Holy Spirit can't choose to believe in/trust on Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin.

 

[JIM]

OK, Thanks for the extended definition of faith.

However the OP is not about what is faith or how it is defined. Since it is a noun; and the Christian faith has particular content; and the Bible is the Christian's book pertaining to all things God and salvation; and salvation and justification come through faith: When the Bible uses the word faith in conjunction with God's relationship with mankind, what is it referring to?

The answer would be, not just any faith, but saving faith. Not self generated faith that can be in anything, but saving faith.

Where do you read about "saving faith" as being different than "just faith"? Answer -- nowhere.

 

[Arial]

I get lost at the notion that "faith" (v.) could refer to any self-power, as though the new birth could refer to self power.

It often is though. The entire Arminianist community does so. Which is what I am pointing out----it can't. There are other ways of doing so. Such as the word pistis translated "faith" in Eph 2:8. If one reads beyond the basic Strong's definition (which Arminanists never include when they are giving a definition) it clearly states that in the Greek this word always meant a faith that was given to a person from outside of themselves.


Faith (4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it.

So, that wrecks the notion that salvation alone is the gift in Eph 2:8 , and that faith is not a gift but our own. If faith is seen and declared to not be a gift, but purely generated from our own selves, then we, of our own selves, have caused salvation to be given. even required of God to save us----no longer grace but human works.

However---my purpose in the OP was to point out what God is referring to when the word "faith" is used in his word. And it is always, in conjunction with God's relationship with man, the content of a particular faith. Saving faith. It is saving faith that is given. It is saving faith that made a man well in Luke 17:19 And he's said to him, "Rise and go your way your faith has made you well." It was saving faith in God when Jesus said in Matt 17 For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grin of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, Move from here to there, and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you. (That of course is hyperbole to drive home a point. If one is asking for what is outside the will of God, they are not asking in faith ----as content of the faith. The passage above was in the context of Jesus having sent the disciples out to heal the sick and cast out demons as demonstration of the authority of the gospel they were to preach, and they were unable to do so in a particular incident. My guess is that they had forgotten who gave them the authority to do so and had become focused on themselves "in all their glory.")

The OP was to clarify some difficult passages that use the term "faith" and in a whole section of Christianity, because it is interpreted as self generated faith in passages such as the above, have arrived at a very heretical and world based teaching. A manipulation of God for personal gain and worldly things. They have made a conjuring out of faith.

 

[Arial]

Where do you read about "saving faith" as being different than "just faith"? Answer -- nowhere.

If that were the case then the Christian Faith that justifies a person before God, and through which we are saved, would have no content.

 

[Arial]

Where do you read about "saving faith" as being different than "just faith"? Answer -- nowhere.

Not only would the Christian faith have no content, Christianity would have no sorteriology, there would not even be a faith designated as Christian so no Christianity. And "faith" would not be a noun---which you showed us yourself that it is a noun.

 

[His clay]

Where do you read about "saving faith" as being different than "just faith"? Answer -- nowhere.

The distinction is an absolutely necessary distinction, and it is evidenced by today's pagan spirituality in contrast to Christianity. Postmodern ideology has impacted today's culture, and often people think of religion like a buffet. You can take what you like, since there really is no objective reality in postmodern thought. "I believe" is kind of a saying. People may be believing in themselves (which is pagan). People may be just "believing" without any specific content (which is pagan). People may be believing in the pick and choose ideology they have constructed from postmodern society (which is pagan).

It is blatantly obvious that this is radically different than "saving faith" defined by the Bible, which is distinct from the dead faith mentioned in James 2:17-19, which is different than the "belief" evidenced by those who picked up stones to stone Jesus in John 8:31-59.

Jim, your denial of the obvious is dangerous.

 

[JIM]

If that were the case then the Christian Faith that justifies a person before God, and through which we are saved, would have no content.

Not only would the Christian faith have no content, Christianity would have no sorteriology, there would not even be a faith designated as Christian so no Christianity. And "faith" would not be a noun---which you showed us yourself that it is a noun.

I haven't the slightest idea of what you are even trying to say. None of that makes any sense to me at all. The difference in faith in God and faith in anything or anyone else is God, not faith.

 

[JIM]

The distinction is an absolutely necessary distinction, and it is evidenced by today's pagan spirituality in contrast to Christianity. Postmodern ideology has impacted today's culture, and often people think of religion like a buffet. You can take what you like, since there really is no objective reality in postmodern thought. "I believe" is kind of a saying. People may be believing in themselves (which is pagan). People may be just "believing" without any specific content (which is pagan). People may be believing in the pick and choose ideology they have constructed from postmodern society (which is pagan).

It is blatantly obvious that this is radically different than "saving faith" defined by the Bible, which is distinct from the dead faith mentioned in James 2:17-19, which is different than the "belief" evidenced by those who picked up stones to stone Jesus in John 8:31-59.

Jim, your denial of the obvious is dangerous.

It is your thinking that faith in God is some miraculous infusion into the heart and mind of the individual that is dangerous. As I stated to @Arial the difference between faith in God and faith in anything else is God not faith. The Bible is the source of the data and information to bring one to accept God and what it says about God as truth and to place one's trust and confidence in God. There is no other source. That is the whole purpose of the Bible.

 

[makesends]

Where do you read about "saving faith" as being different than "just faith"? Answer -- nowhere.

the demons also believe

 

[Eleanor]

It is your thinking that faith in God is some miraculous infusion into the heart and mind of the individual that is dangerous. As I stated to @Arial the difference between faith in God and faith in anything else is God not faith. The Bible is the source of the data and information to bring one to accept God and what it says about God as truth and to place one's trust and confidence in God. There is no other source. That is the whole purpose of the Bible.

The faith in God that believes and obeys, as distinct from just believing he exists based on the evidence of creation, which evidence likewise holds all men "without excuse" (Ro 1:19-20), is most definitely not of man, but a gift of the Holy Spirit (Php 1:29, Ac 13:48, 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3).

 

[Arial]

It is your thinking that faith in God is some miraculous infusion into the heart and mind of the individual that is dangerous.

Do not misstate a persons beliefs according to your opinion and misconception of their beliefs with inflammatory, argumentative language such as this. You have had that same distorted use of language countered with correct doctrinal view enough times to know it is a gross misrepresentation. You have been warned enough times to not continue doing it. If you backtalk against this warning, suffer the consequences.

 

[Arial]

I haven't the slightest idea of what you are even trying to say. None of that makes any sense to me at all. The difference in faith in God and faith in anything or anyone else is God, not faith.

Well, that is quite the admission. However that does not mean that what I said makes no sense. It is just a bit shameful that you can't follow it. It means there are holes in your understanding of biblical Christianity and a lot of the ideas and truths it presents. Or maybe it is just that you make no attempt to follow it since I wrote it and you have decided to deem me silly and dismiss me. Not A Christian precept.