What does it mean to be born again?
- Thread starter TonyChanYT
- Start date
I don't adopt Calvin's teachings.
Calvin violates all kinds of Jesus' teachings.
I follow Jesus' teachings.
Christians are Jesus' followers.
I agree
Just want to clarify as some on here are anti Trent Calvinists to the core!
Thks
So do you follow Jesus' teaching to the core?
I don't think so.
No one who follows Jesus' teachings is not a triune god worshipper.
109. There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will.
110. There is a supernatural influence of God in the faculties of the soul which coincides in time with man’s free act of will.
111. For every salutary act internal supernatural grace of God (gratia elevans) is absolutely necessary.
112. Internal supernatural grace is absolutely necessary for the beginning of faith and of salvation.
122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.
110. There is a supernatural influence of God in the faculties of the soul which coincides in time with man’s free act of will.
111. For every salutary act internal supernatural grace of God (gratia elevans) is absolutely necessary.
112. Internal supernatural grace is absolutely necessary for the beginning of faith and of salvation.
122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.
We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)
(Not scripture alone)
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
“Not by scripture alone”!
That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17
Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6
And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42
Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14
Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17
Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21
Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18
Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23
Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16
For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the cannon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!
Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19
How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the cannon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!
Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)
Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.
Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.
Now this is the catholic faith:
That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.
What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.
The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.
The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.
And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.
Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.
Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.
Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.
Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.
The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.
Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.
Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other.
So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.
Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.
But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.
Now this is the true faith:
That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.
He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.
Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself.He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human.
He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.
This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.
Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God of hosts!
(From the early church)
Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.
Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.
Now this is the catholic faith:
That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.
What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.
The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.
The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.
And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.
Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.
Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.
Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.
Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.
The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.
Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.
Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other.
So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.
Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.
But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.
Now this is the true faith:
That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.
He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.
Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself.He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human.
He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.
This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.
Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God of hosts!
Whats your point?
Do you believe Jesus Christ and His holy church?
One God in three persons?
Sunday is the sabbath and the day of public worship?
Mr GLee
Well Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2023
- Messages
- 4,542
- Reaction score
- 328
- Points
- 83
- Age
- 76
- Marital status
- married
- Politics
- republican
Thanks for the reply
Not a salvation issue. I think more of how can we hear what the Spirit says to the churches
If not yoked with him we have no power. He does all the work of creating new creatures or he performs nothing .
I don't think God whose name is Jealous shares his creative glory with dying mankind, believers. He as a labor of love pours out his powerful Spirit life on dying flesh
Our invisible head Christ is not served by the dying hands of mankind in any way shape or form.
I believe he can send as a apostle a unbeliever to preach the gospel .
In that way Christ uses a Ass to prophecy, (declare His will.) The prophecy stopped the madness of the false apostle false prophet Balaam .
Ass. . unclean or not redeemed..... Lamb clean. . the redeemer
Exodus 34:20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
Numbers 22:28 And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
The key is "both" to hear, empowering the powerless to do. To will and to do . Not just hear the will, Again both, Two in the number assigned that indicate God has spoke. The invisible Holy Father working in the Son of man Jesus .The temporal seen give us the unseen understanding of faith
Philippian 2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Jesus the Son of man empowered by the Holy Father did the will of the father with delight. unlike Jonas the murmurer who resisted the power of the gospel Knowing the outcome of mercy. He remained prejudice kicking against the pricks and wanted to die .
TonyChanYT
Sophomore
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2024
- Messages
- 159
- Reaction score
- 37
- Points
- 28
Were you physically dead?
Mr GLee
Well Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2023
- Messages
- 4,542
- Reaction score
- 328
- Points
- 83
- Age
- 76
- Marital status
- married
- Politics
- republican
Dead as in dying coming to a end of life
When he said you will surly die. It did not mean instantly but a life time the lifer sentence no electric chair .
Who would procreate is they died instantly? Who would get the gospel out .
Josheb
Reformed Non-denominational
- Joined
- May 19, 2023
- Messages
- 4,625
- Reaction score
- 2,003
- Points
- 113
- Location
- VA, south of DC
- Faith
- Yes
- Marital status
- Married with adult children
- Politics
- Conservative
Well, Luke 10:16 is found in Luke 10:16, and John 16:13 is found in John 16:13 and the same is true of the remaining three proof-texted verses you ripped out of their contexts.
Yes, but the ECFs do not define scripture apart from scripture. You are, once again, proving the problem with RCCism. They've turned you into an ideologue, not a Christian concerned with the facts and truth of scripture.
Take, for example, the first verse cited in Post 19.
Luke 10:16
The one who listens to you listens to me, and the one who rejects you rejects me; but the one who rejects me rejects the One who sent me.
Not a single quote from the ECFs is consistent with that statement. Jesus NEVER stated a person had to be baptized in order for his/her sins to be forgiven and Jesus demonstrated the act of forgiving others without baptizing them. In other words, not a single ECF quote was consistent with the verse you proof-texted. If we all actually did what you just did we must all condemn the ECFs quoted because they did NOT listen to Jesus. The ignored both his teaching and his example to teach something other than what he taught.
Give the New Testament a quick perusal and tell me how many people scripture states Jesus baptized in/with water. Don't delay. Do it now. The next post from your keyboard should be the shortest you've ever posted. All it should contain is a number.
TonyChanYT
Sophomore
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2024
- Messages
- 159
- Reaction score
- 37
- Points
- 28
Before you, Mr. GLee, was born again, were you physically dead?
As you well know I was referring to your comment
Lots of people in the New Testament had their sins forgiven without b first (or later) being baptized.
Mk 16:16
Baptismal regeneration was not a requirement until the New Testament was in effect
Heb 9:16-17
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Josheb
Reformed Non-denominational
- Joined
- May 19, 2023
- Messages
- 4,625
- Reaction score
- 2,003
- Points
- 113
- Location
- VA, south of DC
- Faith
- Yes
- Marital status
- Married with adult children
- Politics
- Conservative
Still ignoring the facts of the New Testament: Jesus forgave sins without baptizing people. Still ignoring the fact none of the verses cited state what they were claimed to say.
Calvin believed baptism was salvific, so you're contradicting yourself when you argue for baptismal regeneration and against Calvin. Furthermore, this is the theology board, not the Calvinism board (or the Catholic board), so you're once again, entering a thread and making it all about RCCism and Cal-ragging when either are necessary. The meaning of "born again, can and should be discussed without pre-existing doctrinal bias. Many of the ECFs clearly thought baptism required but they were asserting a religious doctrinal, institutional view, not scripture, not the precedent established in scripture (I suspect at least a few of them would acknowledge that fact were they present to address that matter). The fact remains, many in the gospels had sins forgiven without being baptized. Whether it is now Church policy or not is immaterial to the point being made: forgiveness of sin is not dependent upon water baptism...... and that has nothing to do with being born anew from above or born again. Water baptism was not what Jesus' reference when he spoke about "unless one is born of water." We know that because there were many whose sins were forgiven without having been baptized. Jesus did not say that and then go out and about contradicting himself in word and deed. Your posts use the word "regeneration" many times, but they do not actually answer the question asked. You are, once again, mucking up another's thread for the sake of your own agenda.
I support water baptism, but it does not answer the question asked: "What does it mean to be born again?"
Mr GLee
Well Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2023
- Messages
- 4,542
- Reaction score
- 328
- Points
- 83
- Age
- 76
- Marital status
- married
- Politics
- republican
Hi Thanks for the reply
If I was we would not be having a conversation,
Dead spirit, no faith or power that could please God .
In that way he calls us dead unlike those who seek after the dead (patron saints workers with a familiar spirit) They must deny sola scriptura .The law and the prophets
Isiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Dead to the dead, or dead receiving new born agin spirit life of the Holy Father. Most likely why Jesus said let the dead bury thier own
