Was MacArthur a dispensationalist?

[Carbon]

Right now Spiritual israel is the Church, but that dies not preclude God dealing with national Israel in last days

Brother, I respectfully ask, where do you get that info? All the elect, whether Jew or gentile, are part of the church. The church did not, nor does it ever take over for the Jews. The church is the Israel of God.

I know some Dispensationalists claim that because there has been a partial hardening that happened to Israel, we Amillennialists claim the church as a replacement, but Amils did not come up with that; that's a strawman from the Dispensationalists. But this hardening is speaking of the non-elect Jews rejecting Jesus; it never speaks of the elect Jews.

25 For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written:

Paul does not say, then after this (partial hardening), all Israel shall be saved. When Paul says, "all Israel will be saved," there is nothing to prove Paul is looking to the end of the age, but instead looking at the whole gospel age, which is from Christ's first and Second coming. Scripture also shows Paul sees and elect Israel (A Remnant) throughout the gospel age.

 

[Carbon]

@JesusFan
Romans 11:26 and so all Israel will be saved;

O Robertson, in his book, "The Israel of God," asks this question.
What does Paul mean by "all Israel?"

1) All Israel refers to all ethnic descendants of Abraham.
2) "all Israel" refers to all ethnic descendants of Abraham living at a future time at which God shall initiate a special working among the Jews.
3) "all Israel" refers to the "mass" or "majority" of Jews living at the time of a special saving activity of God in the future.
4) "all Israel" refers to all the elect Israelites within the community of Israel.
5) "all Israel" refers both to Jews and gentiles which together constitute the church of Christ, the Israel of God.


What does everyone choose, 1-5?

 

[Arial]

@JesusFan
Romans 11:26 and so all Israel will be saved;

O Robertson, in his book, "The Israel of God," asks this question.
What does Paul mean by "all Israel?"

1) All Israel refers to all ethnic descendants of Abraham.
2) "all Israel" refers to all ethnic descendants of Abraham living at a future time at which God shall initiate a special working among the Jews.
3) "all Israel" refers to the "mass" or "majority" of Jews living at the time of a special saving activity of God in the future.
4) "all Israel" refers to all the elect Israelites within the community of Israel.
5) "all Israel" refers both to Jews and gentiles which together constitute the church of Christ, the Israel of God.


What does everyone choose, 1-5?

It could be 4 and 5, depending on how one is looking at it. Or simply all of the elect Jew and Gentile alike. Only the elect are ever saved (Romans 9:6).

 

[Arial]

Right now Spiritual israel is the Church, but that dies not preclude God dealing with national Israel in last days

What are the last days?

 

[makesends]

I would see the eschatology of the NT as being Historical premil, so like a Spurgeon, do still see at end of this age going into the Messianic Age that God still has Israel proper plans moving forward
Charles Spurgeon (1834–1892) believed in a literal, future restoration of national Israel to their land and their subsequent conversion to faith in Christ, holding that they would have a prominent place in the millennial kingdom. He taught that Israel would be reorganized as a nation, possibly with a monarchy, and that their national conversion would lead to worldwide blessing.

The Spurgeon Archive +2
Key aspects of Spurgeon's view included:

• Literal Restoration: He believed prophecies in the Old Testament pointed to a physical return of the Jewish people to the Promised Land.
• National Conversion: Spurgeon taught that Israel would eventually recognize Jesus as their Messiah, saying, "the nation of Israel never can [apostatize]... she shall be effectually and permanently converted".
• Role in the Millennium: He expected a "political restoration" where Israel would be a nation again, followed by a time when "the King Messiah shall sit, and reign among his people gloriously".
• Distinction from Dispensationalism: While holding to these views, this Reddit post indicates that Spurgeon was generally opposed to modern dispensationalist theology, instead holding a view more aligned with Historic Premillennialism.
  
  
  The Spurgeon Archive +4

Spurgeon often emphasized that although Israel had been scattered and blinded, God had not abandoned them. He viewed their restoration as a key event in the fulfillment of God's promises.

Wondering does that mean all Israel previous, too? If not, then this doesn't sound like Israel (national) at all, but just the "Church". The elect. Or is there some reason for those of national Israel still alive at that time that makes them more special than those that came before them?

 

[Carbon]

It could be 4 and 5, depending on how one is looking at it. Or simply all of the elect Jew and Gentile alike. Only the elect are ever saved (Romans 9:6).

Yes I agree. I am not 100% on 4 or 5, but as you said I agree.

 

[Arial]

Wondering does that mean all Israel previous, too? If not, then this doesn't sound like Israel (national) at all, but just the "Church". The elect. Or is there some reason for those of national Israel still alive at that time that makes them more special than those that came before them?

Good point. It kind of pulls the rug out from under the notion of "all Israel" meaning "all Israel". Which pulls the rug out from under the idea that it takes 1000 years of Jesus reigning in a restored nation Israel as their king as a means of keeping his promise that Israel will always have a king on David's throne.

Didn't they lose a human king long before Jesus was even born and have never had one since? And didn't there cease to even be an Israel (northern kingdom) since it was sent into captivity by Assyria? There was only a Judah left until it too went into captivity in Babylon.

True, God renewed the covenant with them and brought them back because of the prayer of Daniel and to fulfill his promise to Jeremiah. And mainly because Judah, the tribe of David, was the host from which Christ would come. Christ the King, from Judah, but King of the whole world, rising from the grave, ascending back to the Father, given all authority, crowned as King, not just of Israel, but the whole creation. He is not awaiting his coronation as Dispensationalism and historic premil claim. If he had not already been victorious over his enemies at Calvary, none would be saved.

 

[Arial]

Yes I agree. I am not 100% on 4 or 5, but as you said I agree.

Does it make a difference that I said 4 and 5, not 4 or 5?

 

[Carbon]

Does it make a difference that I said 4 and 5, not 4 or 5?

No. I understand and agree. I can’t decide which one 100%.
Though I’m thinking 4

 

[JesusFan]

It could be 4 and 5, depending on how one is looking at it. Or simply all of the elect Jew and Gentile alike. Only the elect are ever saved (Romans 9:6).

Also think 2 and 4 are also viable options

 

[JesusFan]

Brother, I respectfully ask, where do you get that info? All the elect, whether Jew or gentile, are part of the church. The church did not, nor does it ever take over for the Jews. The church is the Israel of God.

I know some Dispensationalists claim that because there has been a partial hardening that happened to Israel, we Amillennialists claim the church as a replacement, but Amils did not come up with that; that's a strawman from the Dispensationalists. But this hardening is speaking of the non-elect Jews rejecting Jesus; it never speaks of the elect Jews.

25 For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written:

Paul does not say, then after this (partial hardening), all Israel shall be saved. When Paul says, "all Israel will be saved," there is nothing to prove Paul is looking to the end of the age, but instead looking at the whole gospel age, which is from Christ's first and Second coming. Scripture also shows Paul sees and elect Israel (A Remnant) throughout the gospel age.

Agree with your last point, but also hold that does not preclude God still dealing with national Israel to prepare them to meet the Lord jesus at second coming and say then blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord

 

[JesusFan]

What are the last days?

The Great tribulation time right before Second Coming event

 

[JesusFan]

Wondering does that mean all Israel previous, too? If not, then this doesn't sound like Israel (national) at all, but just the "Church". The elect. Or is there some reason for those of national Israel still alive at that time that makes them more special than those that came before them?

not more special, just still alive as a majority of them would have already died by Antichrist

 

[JesusFan]

Good point. It kind of pulls the rug out from under the notion of "all Israel" meaning "all Israel". Which pulls the rug out from under the idea that it takes 1000 years of Jesus reigning in a restored nation Israel as their king as a means of keeping his promise that Israel will always have a king on David's throne.

Didn't they lose a human king long before Jesus was even born and have never had one since? And didn't there cease to even be an Israel (northern kingdom) since it was sent into captivity by Assyria? There was only a Judah left until it too went into captivity in Babylon.

True, God renewed the covenant with them and brought them back because of the prayer of Daniel and to fulfill his promise to Jeremiah. And mainly because Judah, the tribe of David, was the host from which Christ would come. Christ the King, from Judah, but King of the whole world, rising from the grave, ascending back to the Father, given all authority, crowned as King, not just of Israel, but the whole creation. He is not awaiting his coronation as Dispensationalism and historic premil claim. If he had not already been victorious over his enemies at Calvary, none would be saved.

he has not yet thought been set up and established as the king over Hs own Kingdome, as that awaits the future messianic Age